Common front of engine oil leaks

Will Albers

New member
Nov 6, 2017
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I have wonderful auto administered undercoating that loves to drip from the engine, and down onto the main crossmember below the fan. There is so much
built up, that i expect this has been going on for a while. I've replaced the valve cover gaskets, and can now verify they are not the source. The oil
doesnt seem biased to one side or another. The whole front of the engine is wet from mid point down.

Is it possible to spring a leak at the intake to head surface? Is it more likely a leak behind the timing gear, or possibly pulleys? What are the more
common leaks from the front of a 403?

For what it is worth, my coolant and oil are clean. Not burning any noticeable amounts.

Thanks
-Will
--
1978 Palm Beach.
Detroit Michigan
 
Start with easy stuff--oil gauge sender. They can leak where press assembled. Since up high in front and oil flows with gravity and fan wind-- well
you get the picture
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Mechanical fuel pump port is a very common cause.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 7:43 AM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <

> Start with easy stuff--oil gauge sender. They can leak where press
> assembled. Since up high in front and oil flows with gravity and fan wind--
> well
> you get the picture
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
 
ooo, interesting. It does seem at that height! Thanks gents!

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:46 AM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> Mechanical fuel pump port is a very common cause.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 7:43 AM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <

>
> > Start with easy stuff--oil gauge sender. They can leak where press
> > assembled. Since up high in front and oil flows with gravity and fan
> wind--
> > well
> > you get the picture
> > --
> > John Lebetski
> > Woodstock, IL
> > 77 Eleganza II
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
 
I've had a similar issue on my 455. Turned out to be the front intake manifold seal..
Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
 
Take some break cleaner and clean the mess a the top area ad work down.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 8:04 AM Scott Nutter via Gmclist <

> I've had a similar issue on my 455. Turned out to be the front intake
> manifold seal..
> Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final
> drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
Last year i had an opportunity to work underneath the coach, parked over a work pit at a Tijuana garage,
where they had one of those air compressor blowers that could mix in liquids… degreasers!
So after they finished doing the valve cover gaskets, and while waiting for the silicone to dry,
i started with the standard engine cleaner foam from autozone, working my way down;
then got underneath the coach to start scraping off the first layers of heavy build up…
what Will was calling the “undercoating”!
Then put on goggles, gloves, hat and work clothes ready to be tossed,
and began the job with this little toy https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F9YFFCG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 with a bottle filled with Purple degreaser, taking on probably 15 years of oil leaks here and there.
The build up was so extensive that this day-long Tijuana work pit adventure barely scratched the surface,

but after the drive home, i could confirm that the leaking was not just the valve cover gaskets,
but also various areas on the intake manifold seal. So last week, when i was removing the distributor for refurbishing,
i finally got an opportunity to finish the de-greasing job here at home.
And as an experiment (‘cause i don’t have time to replace the manifold gasket right now)
I slightly loosened a few bolts of the rear of the intake manifold, then spread a few layers of ultra black silicone at the seals,
and tightened them back up. After 100 miles of driving this weekend, it looks like this method fixed one of the 2 leaks in that area…
and that the other leak is now extremely minor. I can also see that the leak at the front of the intake manifold needs attention
and might benefit from the external silicone / tightening method (but it sure is harder to get to!).

If i didn’t have to remove the distributor otherwise, i probably would not have gotten around to these experiments.

Addendum, Other Leaks:
Next will be the Eleganza transmission leak mystery that i’ve been dealing with for 7 years!.. trying to find the source
(I’ve read many of the postings here about tranny leaks, so i’ll start with a fresh cleaning and 50 mile test drive)
Purple degreaser came highly recommended, but it might not be the best thing to put in the spray gun bottle.
Any other recommendations for that? or are the degreasers probably best to just spray on with a windex type bottle,...
let it sink in, and then use the spray gun with straight water for rinsing? or of course just get a bunch of cans of aerosol engine cleaner,
brake cleaner… but at some point i’m thinking of environmental impact, as well as economic.. when cleaning a long-neglected undercarriage.

Lastly, it looks like the Birchhaven's water pump stopped leaking.
For a few months last year, it’d spit out a bit after turning off the engine after a long drive;
and i’ve been keeping my eyes open, plus bought the Cardone pump to have on hand if needed.
But for the past 3 months and 400 miles, i haven’t seen any coolant on the driveway or the pulley.
So how many votes for “you better change the pump ASAP anyway”, vs. “keep your eye on it, and change if it starts leaking again”?
What could cause a leaking seal to stop leaking? I didn’t add any stop-leak or anything.

Cheers,
Greg / SolarSonic / LosAngeles

> I've had a similar issue on my 455. Turned out to be the front intake manifold seal..
> Scott.
 
As for the water pump leak, maybe your pressure cap is not working?

Nelson Wright
78 Royal rear bath
Belle Isle Fl

Sent from my iPad

>
> Last year i had an opportunity to work underneath the coach, parked over a work pit at a Tijuana garage,
> where they had one of those air compressor blowers that could mix in liquids… degreasers!
> So after they finished doing the valve cover gaskets, and while waiting for the silicone to dry,
> i started with the standard engine cleaner foam from autozone, working my way down;
> then got underneath the coach to start scraping off the first layers of heavy build up…
> what Will was calling the “undercoating”!
> Then put on goggles, gloves, hat and work clothes ready to be tossed,
> and began the job with this little toy https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F9YFFCG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 with a bottle filled with Purple degreaser, taking on probably 15 years of oil leaks here and there.
> The build up was so extensive that this day-long Tijuana work pit adventure barely scratched the surface,
>
> but after the drive home, i could confirm that the leaking was not just the valve cover gaskets,
> but also various areas on the intake manifold seal. So last week, when i was removing the distributor for refurbishing,
> i finally got an opportunity to finish the de-greasing job here at home.
> And as an experiment (‘cause i don’t have time to replace the manifold gasket right now)
> I slightly loosened a few bolts of the rear of the intake manifold, then spread a few layers of ultra black silicone at the seals,
> and tightened them back up. After 100 miles of driving this weekend, it looks like this method fixed one of the 2 leaks in that area…
> and that the other leak is now extremely minor. I can also see that the leak at the front of the intake manifold needs attention
> and might benefit from the external silicone / tightening method (but it sure is harder to get to!).
>
> If i didn’t have to remove the distributor otherwise, i probably would not have gotten around to these experiments.
>
> Addendum, Other Leaks:
> Next will be the Eleganza transmission leak mystery that i’ve been dealing with for 7 years!.. trying to find the source
> (I’ve read many of the postings here about tranny leaks, so i’ll start with a fresh cleaning and 50 mile test drive)
> Purple degreaser came highly recommended, but it might not be the best thing to put in the spray gun bottle.
> Any other recommendations for that? or are the degreasers probably best to just spray on with a windex type bottle,...
> let it sink in, and then use the spray gun with straight water for rinsing? or of course just get a bunch of cans of aerosol engine cleaner,
> brake cleaner… but at some point i’m thinking of environmental impact, as well as economic.. when cleaning a long-neglected undercarriage.
>
> Lastly, it looks like the Birchhaven's water pump stopped leaking.
> For a few months last year, it’d spit out a bit after turning off the engine after a long drive;
> and i’ve been keeping my eyes open, plus bought the Cardone pump to have on hand if needed.
> But for the past 3 months and 400 miles, i haven’t seen any coolant on the driveway or the pulley.
> So how many votes for “you better change the pump ASAP anyway”, vs. “keep your eye on it, and change if it starts leaking again”?
> What could cause a leaking seal to stop leaking? I didn’t add any stop-leak or anything.
>
> Cheers,
> Greg / SolarSonic / LosAngeles
>
>> I've had a similar issue on my 455. Turned out to be the front intake manifold seal..
>> Scott.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
hey Nelson, Let me see if i understand this correctly:
If the pressure cap is not working, then with less pressure in the cooling system,
then borderline water pump leaks might have stopped leaking... until the pressure cap is fixed?
I suppose i could take a drive after swapping radiator caps with the Eleganza, and see…
Any other tips in this direction? Thanks!
Greg

> it looks like the Birchhaven's water pump stopped leaking.
> For a few months last year, it?d spit out a bit after turning off the engine after a long drive;
> and i?ve been keeping my eyes open, plus bought the Cardone pump to have on hand if needed.
> But for the past 3 months and 400 miles, i haven?t seen any coolant on the driveway or the pulley.
> So how many votes for ?you better change the pump ASAP anyway?, vs. ?keep your eye on it, and change if it starts leaking again??
> What could cause a leaking seal to stop leaking? I didn?t add any stop-leak or anything.
 
Greg, yes, more than once I have driven vehicles with small leaks by removing the pressure cap. Just watch your temperature gauge cause it will boil sooner without the cap.
Put a working cap on and see if the leak returns. If so then replace the pump and the cap.
HTH
Nelson

Sent from my iPhone
Nelson Wright

Orlando Fl.

>
>
>
> hey Nelson, Let me see if i understand this correctly:
> If the pressure cap is not working, then with less pressure in the cooling system,
> then borderline water pump leaks might have stopped leaking... until the pressure cap is fixed?
> I suppose i could take a drive after swapping radiator caps with the Eleganza, and see…
> Any other tips in this direction? Thanks!
> Greg
>
>> it looks like the Birchhaven's water pump stopped leaking.
>> For a few months last year, it?d spit out a bit after turning off the engine after a long drive;
>> and i?ve been keeping my eyes open, plus bought the Cardone pump to have on hand if needed.
>> But for the past 3 months and 400 miles, i haven?t seen any coolant on the driveway or the pulley.
>> So how many votes for ?you better change the pump ASAP anyway?, vs. ?keep your eye on it, and change if it starts leaking again??
>> What could cause a leaking seal to stop leaking? I didn?t add any stop-leak or anything.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Be careful leaving the cap off the radiator on cross flow systems like the
GMC. No circulation CAN result. Bad juju.
Jim Hupy

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 3:50 PM Nelson Wright via Gmclist <

> Greg, yes, more than once I have driven vehicles with small leaks by
> removing the pressure cap. Just watch your temperature gauge cause it will
> boil sooner without the cap.
> Put a working cap on and see if the leak returns. If so then replace the
> pump and the cap.
> HTH
> Nelson
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Nelson Wright
>
> Orlando Fl.
>
> > On Jul 29, 2019, at 5:02 PM, Ek Lektro via Gmclist <

> >
> >
> >
> > hey Nelson, Let me see if i understand this correctly:
> > If the pressure cap is not working, then with less pressure in the
> cooling system,
> > then borderline water pump leaks might have stopped leaking... until the
> pressure cap is fixed?
> > I suppose i could take a drive after swapping radiator caps with the
> Eleganza, and see…
> > Any other tips in this direction? Thanks!
> > Greg
> >
> >> it looks like the Birchhaven's water pump stopped leaking.
> >> For a few months last year, it?d spit out a bit after turning off the
> engine after a long drive;
> >> and i?ve been keeping my eyes open, plus bought the Cardone pump to
> have on hand if needed.
> >> But for the past 3 months and 400 miles, i haven?t seen any coolant on
> the driveway or the pulley.
> >> So how many votes for ?you better change the pump ASAP anyway?, vs.
> ?keep your eye on it, and change if it starts leaking again??
> >> What could cause a leaking seal to stop leaking? I didn?t add any
> stop-leak or anything.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Front intake manifold gasket / seal. It is really is a rubber seal or if it has been replaced it is a smashed silicone bead. If necessary, It is
possible to reseal it without removing the manifold. Clean the area thoroughly with brake cleaner. Then coat the seam with silicone and apply a shop
vac to the oil fill tube with the PCV valve removed and taped off. It is not pretty but it works.

There should be no or minimal pressure in there but if the PCV is not working then crankcase pressure will build up and leak through the weakest
point. I would replace the PCV first to see if it makes any difference. It is cheap and easy.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Thanks Ken! That vacuum idea is a great one!

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 8:53 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

> Front intake manifold gasket / seal. It is really is a rubber seal or if
> it has been replaced it is a smashed silicone bead. If necessary, It is
> possible to reseal it without removing the manifold. Clean the area
> thoroughly with brake cleaner. Then coat the seam with silicone and apply
> a shop
> vac to the oil fill tube with the PCV valve removed and taped off. It is
> not pretty but it works.
>
> There should be no or minimal pressure in there but if the PCV is not
> working then crankcase pressure will build up and leak through the weakest
> point. I would replace the PCV first to see if it makes any difference.
> It is cheap and easy.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>