coating headers

[claude brousson]

I have been making some inquires with both both Swain and HPC regarding
their header coatings. My impressions so far are that it is not a clear
cut answer one way or the other as to which is the best way to go, and
not having had the actual experience of having one or the other
application and using it for some years,and then assessing, how does one
really know for sure? Are there any of you who have had direct
experience with these or other companies, and with one type of coating
or another in an actual application??

What I'm finding so far is as follows:
Swain coatings They are thicker at .o15"
-they coat the outside but only to the first bend of the
header on the inside.
-they have no guarantee; price is higher.
-being thicker and higher amount of ceramic in them they
keep more heat inside the header,but what happens to
the header on the inside beyond the area where it is
coated? There will be more heat to burn out the
header sooner beyond that point I would
presume.
-If they could coat the full length of the header inside,
that would be ideal, I think.

HPC coatings Coating is very thin-.002"
- they provide a guarantee- first three years
free recoat and you pay shipping. For as long as
you own the headers, they will recoat for half current
price.
-they fully coat the inside as well as outside. They
claim heat reduction of under hood temps. of 25-35
degrees.

How long will this inside coating last on the header? I don't know.With
either product,if there is no protection on the inside, the metal
presumably will rise to higher temps. as the heat is being held inside
rather than experiencing loss through the metal, and I would presume
therefore that the header will fatigue and burn out more quickly.While
it may be true that the highest temps. are right where the exhaust gases
leave the block, I wouldn't think there would be much reduction in temps
in the first 12" or so of the piping.

So the dilemma becomes- Pay more for a thicker more efficient product,
but which has no guarantee and only goes a short distance down the
inside of the pipe,-- or -- pay less for a thinner product which goes
all the way inside, has limited guarantee, but may be scoured, and worn
off the inside, in who knows how long?

Am I missing any thing here and are there aspects which I have not
considered? Any ideas any one?

Claude in Victoria.

 

[marcus mcgee]

Claude:

Having done my new headers with the thin coating, I can say emphatically
that it was a mistake not to have had Swain do it instead. I was in a hurry
and went with HPC. If I do it again it would be with Swain. HPC, Jet-Hott
etc. are mostly cosmetic and not nearly as good as Swain. I guess the
guarantee is a consideration, but I know Swain will stand behind their
product if there is a problem. All the drag racers up here and the SCCA
guys swear by Swain and they seem to put performance ahead of hype and
looks. Just my 2cts.

Marcus

 

[thomas g. warner]

Claude there is a big difference between the Swain coating and all others.
HPC or Jet hot is a cosmetic, sacrificial coating of a metal ceramic and
swain is a true thick ceramic coating. I believe you may have misunderstood
their advertisement relative to whether the inside of the headers are
entirely coated. They state long headers are not entirely coatd on the
inside. Mine for the GMC motorhome are, I have checked them. In fact I
discussed this very topic with Don Swain when I first looked at their
products. If you want to seriously reduce underhood temps, this is the way
to go

>I have been making some inquires with both both Swain and HPC regarding
>their header coatings. My impressions so far are that it is not a clear
>cut answer one way or the other as to which is the best way to go, and
>not having had the actual experience of having one or the other
>application and using it for some years,and then assessing, how does one
>really know for sure? Are there any of you who have had direct
>experience with these or other companies, and with one type of coating
>or another in an actual application??
>
>What I'm finding so far is as follows:
>Swain coatings They are thicker at .o15"
> -they coat the outside but only to the first bend of the
> header on the inside.
> -they have no guarantee; price is higher.
> -being thicker and higher amount of ceramic in them they
> keep more heat inside the header,but what happens to
>the header on the inside beyond the area where it is
>coated? There will be more heat to burn out the
>header sooner beyond that point I would
>presume.
> -If they could coat the full length of the header inside,
> that would be ideal, I think.
>
>HPC coatings Coating is very thin-.002"
> - they provide a guarantee- first three years
>free recoat and you pay shipping. For as long as
>you own the headers, they will recoat for half current
>price.
> -they fully coat the inside as well as outside. They
>claim heat reduction of under hood temps. of 25-35
>degrees.
>
>How long will this inside coating last on the header? I don't know.With
>either product,if there is no protection on the inside, the metal
>presumably will rise to higher temps. as the heat is being held inside
>rather than experiencing loss through the metal, and I would presume
>therefore that the header will fatigue and burn out more quickly.While
>it may be true that the highest temps. are right where the exhaust gases
>leave the block, I wouldn't think there would be much reduction in temps
>in the first 12" or so of the piping.
>
>So the dilemma becomes- Pay more for a thicker more efficient product,
>but which has no guarantee and only goes a short distance down the
>inside of the pipe,-- or -- pay less for a thinner product which goes
>all the way inside, has limited guarantee, but may be scoured, and worn
>off the inside, in who knows how long?
>
>Am I missing any thing here and are there aspects which I have not
>considered? Any ideas any one?
>
>Claude in Victoria.
>
>

 

[bartz paul]

Marcus:

What do you find wrong with your HPC coating?? Did you ever see all the big
name racing credits HPC claims they have in use??

I've had my HPC coated headers on since late 1996 with 24,000 miles in the
interim, and haven't noticed any problems. I especially like the bright,
smooth finishing process HPC uses.

Paul Bartz

From: Marcus McGee [mailto:crsalert]
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 6:34 PM

Having done my new headers with the thin coating, I can say emphatically
that it was a mistake not to have had Swain do it instead. I was in a hurry
and went with HPC. If I do it again it would be with Swain. HPC, Jet-Hott
etc. are mostly cosmetic and not nearly as good as Swain. I guess the
guarantee is a consideration, but I know Swain will stand behind their
product if there is a problem. All the drag racers up here and the SCCA
guys swear by Swain and they seem to put performance ahead of hype and
looks. Just my 2cts.

 

[marcus mcgee]

The HPC coating is fine as a cosmetic coating and works as a heat shield to some
degree. Having been involved in racing and my head engineer is a heavy weight
(both politcally and for real) in IHRA Drag racing, they may use HPC, but it may
be a different type of coating than you and I get, or they may only use it on
non critical parts and they do get paid for having the sticker on the car. You
do not need to use a product exclusively to put the ad and get the contingency
money. HPC is fine for cosmetics, and some heat barrier.

Swain gets paid for all of its work and they do alot of NASCAR, TransAm, Cart,
IRL engines along with very high tech military work. Sort of the difference
between SnapON and Craftsman. Sears has great tools and sponor a number of
cars, bur SnapOn is the one chosen when cost is not the prime consideration. I
bet if you went to the mechanics tool chest from a Craftsman garage you would
find Snap On. I have seen some Swain coated headers that you could almost
touch. They did not look as pretty as the HPC but worked alot better.

Just my thoughts.

Marcus

> Marcus:
>
> What do you find wrong with your HPC coating?? Did you ever see all the big
> name racing credits HPC claims they have in use??
>
> I've had my HPC coated headers on since late 1996 with 24,000 miles in the
> interim, and haven't noticed any problems. I especially like the bright,
> smooth finishing process HPC uses.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
> From: Marcus McGee [mailto:crsalert]
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 6:34 PM
>
> Having done my new headers with the thin coating, I can say emphatically
> that it was a mistake not to have had Swain do it instead. I was in a hurry
> and went with HPC. If I do it again it would be with Swain. HPC, Jet-Hott
> etc. are mostly cosmetic and not nearly as good as Swain. I guess the
> guarantee is a consideration, but I know Swain will stand behind their
> product if there is a problem. All the drag racers up here and the SCCA
> guys swear by Swain and they seem to put performance ahead of hype and
> looks. Just my 2cts.

 

[bartz paul]

Marcus:

I Hear what you say below, however I'm not sure you answered my first
question where I was basically asking why you stated it was a mistake to
have used HPC coating.

HPC does have a hi-temp coating, which is the type the racers use, and not
the type I got.

Unfortunately, one of the problems is that you can't find, at least I
haven't found it, data to compare apples-to-apples, or in this case, HPC vs.
Swain coating performance. So a lot of what is espoused here between the
two is subjective comments based on the persuasion of the writer.

Paul Bartz

From: Marcus McGee [mailto:crsalert]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 2:05 PM

The HPC coating is fine as a cosmetic coating and works as a heat shield to
some
degree. Having been involved in racing and my head engineer is a heavy
weight
(both politcally and for real) in IHRA Drag racing, they may use HPC, but it
may
be a different type of coating than you and I get, or they may only use it
on
non critical parts and they do get paid for having the sticker on the car.
You
do not need to use a product exclusively to put the ad and get the
contingency
money. HPC is fine for cosmetics, and some heat barrier.

Swain gets paid for all of its work and they do alot of NASCAR, TransAm,
Cart,
IRL engines along with very high tech military work. Sort of the difference
between SnapON and Craftsman. Sears has great tools and sponor a number of
cars, bur SnapOn is the one chosen when cost is not the prime consideration.
I
bet if you went to the mechanics tool chest from a Craftsman garage you
would
find Snap On. I have seen some Swain coated headers that you could almost
touch. They did not look as pretty as the HPC but worked alot better.

Just my thoughts.

Marcus

> Marcus:
>
> What do you find wrong with your HPC coating?? Did you ever see all the
big
> name racing credits HPC claims they have in use??
>
> I've had my HPC coated headers on since late 1996 with 24,000 miles in the
> interim, and haven't noticed any problems. I especially like the bright,
> smooth finishing process HPC uses.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
> From: Marcus McGee [mailto:crsalert]
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 6:34 PM
>
> Having done my new headers with the thin coating, I can say emphatically
> that it was a mistake not to have had Swain do it instead. I was in a
hurry
> and went with HPC. If I do it again it would be with Swain. HPC,
Jet-Hott
> etc. are mostly cosmetic and not nearly as good as Swain. I guess the
> guarantee is a consideration, but I know Swain will stand behind their
> product if there is a problem. All the drag racers up here and the SCCA
> guys swear by Swain and they seem to put performance ahead of hype and
> looks. Just my 2cts.

 

[marcus mcgee]

Paul;

The reason I say it was a mistake at the time is because for a few bucks more I
could have had Swain and done even more to solve the heat problem. As it is I
am "happy" with the HPC. If I had it to do over again I would do the Swain
coating. You are right it is hard to compare. My gut feeling is that Swain
does a low key, word of mouth, proof is in the pudding marketing and HPC blows
its own horn very loudly. Nothing wrong with either way. Just a difference in
style.

Marcus

> Marcus:
>
> I Hear what you say below, however I'm not sure you answered my first
> question where I was basically asking why you stated it was a mistake to
> have used HPC coating. You are right it is hard to compare.
>
> HPC does have a hi-temp coating, which is the type the racers use, and not
> the type I got.
>
> Unfortunately, one of the problems is that you can't find, at least I
> haven't found it, data to compare apples-to-apples, or in this case, HPC vs.
> Swain coating performance. So a lot of what is espoused here between the
> two is subjective comments based on the persuasion of the writer.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
> From: Marcus McGee [mailto:crsalert]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 2:05 PM
>
> The HPC coating is fine as a cosmetic coating and works as a heat shield to
> some
> degree. Having been involved in racing and my head engineer is a heavy
> weight
> (both politcally and for real) in IHRA Drag racing, they may use HPC, but it
> may
> be a different type of coating than you and I get, or they may only use it
> on
> non critical parts and they do get paid for having the sticker on the car.
> You
> do not need to use a product exclusively to put the ad and get the
> contingency
> money. HPC is fine for cosmetics, and some heat barrier.
>
> Swain gets paid for all of its work and they do alot of NASCAR, TransAm,
> Cart,
> IRL engines along with very high tech military work. Sort of the difference
> between SnapON and Craftsman. Sears has great tools and sponor a number of
> cars, bur SnapOn is the one chosen when cost is not the prime consideration.
> I
> bet if you went to the mechanics tool chest from a Craftsman garage you
> would
> find Snap On. I have seen some Swain coated headers that you could almost
> touch. They did not look as pretty as the HPC but worked alot better.
>
> Just my thoughts.
>
> Marcus
>

>
> > Marcus:
> >
> > What do you find wrong with your HPC coating?? Did you ever see all the
> big
> > name racing credits HPC claims they have in use??
> >
> > I've had my HPC coated headers on since late 1996 with 24,000 miles in the
> > interim, and haven't noticed any problems. I especially like the bright,
> > smooth finishing process HPC uses.
> >
> > Paul Bartz
> >
> > From: Marcus McGee [mailto:crsalert]
> > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2000 6:34 PM
> >
> > Having done my new headers with the thin coating, I can say emphatically
> > that it was a mistake not to have had Swain do it instead. I was in a
> hurry
> > and went with HPC. If I do it again it would be with Swain. HPC,
> Jet-Hott
> > etc. are mostly cosmetic and not nearly as good as Swain. I guess the
> > guarantee is a consideration, but I know Swain will stand behind their
> > product if there is a problem. All the drag racers up here and the SCCA
> > guys swear by Swain and they seem to put performance ahead of hype and
> > looks. Just my 2cts.