Chassis setup

[6cuda61]

Guys when you setup the chassis do you bias it any?

The reason i ask is the wife says it feels like her side is falling when we corner to the left (yes their is a bit if off or outside camber on the
road). I can feel it "nose in" on that right side so i'm assuming either the load bias is wrong, weak Tbar or something im not familar with yet? I
havent measure ride high but its not visually bad.

Anyone experience this?
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[Jim Hupy]

Sounds to me like front sway bar not doing it's intended job. I would check
the links to the lower control arm on both sides, also the sway bar to
frame bushings. If you do not like the feeling of "wallowing around" during
cornering. I personally prefer the feel that Urethane links and bushings
provide, but personal tastes vary a bit. Also, check the upper and lower
control arm bushings. If yours are original, they are likely worn out and
need replacement. Urethane bushings are also available for those. Finally,
check the lower ball joint, as well as shock absorber bushings. Anything
does not look kosher, replace them. Your wife will thank you. Also,
consider moving her seat towards the center of the coach. That seat is
directly over the passenger side front tire.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:33 PM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist
wrote:

> Guys when you setup the chassis do you bias it any?
>
> The reason i ask is the wife says it feels like her side is falling when
> we corner to the left (yes their is a bit if off or outside camber on the
> road). I can feel it "nose in" on that right side so i'm assuming either
> the load bias is wrong, weak Tbar or something im not familar with yet? I
> havent measure ride high but its not visually bad.
>
> Anyone experience this?
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[6cuda61]

Yah from what i can see i'm betting the bushings are all original.....i guess i have another winter oroject, now to decide if we upgrade or not.

The seat idea is a good one, never thought of that....thanks for that idea.!!

> Sounds to me like front sway bar not doing it's intended job. I would check
> the links to the lower control arm on both sides, also the sway bar to
> frame bushings. If you do not like the feeling of "wallowing around" during
> cornering. I personally prefer the feel that Urethane links and bushings
> provide, but personal tastes vary a bit. Also, check the upper and lower
> control arm bushings. If yours are original, they are likely worn out and
> need replacement. Urethane bushings are also available for those. Finally,
> check the lower ball joint, as well as shock absorber bushings. Anything
> does not look kosher, replace them. Your wife will thank you. Also,
> consider moving her seat towards the center of the coach. That seat is
> directly over the passenger side front tire.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:33 PM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist

>
> > Guys when you setup the chassis do you bias it any?
> >
> > The reason i ask is the wife says it feels like her side is falling when
> > we corner to the left (yes their is a bit if off or outside camber on the
> > road). I can feel it "nose in" on that right side so i'm assuming either
> > the load bias is wrong, weak Tbar or something im not familar with yet? I
> > havent measure ride high but its not visually bad.
> >
> > Anyone experience this?
> > --
> > Rich Mondor,
> >
> > Brockville, ON
> >
> > 77 Hughes 2600
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[Jim Hupy]

I have made a couple of seat "adjustments" because co-pilots became nervous
riding over there. I initially "poo-pooed" those nervous Nellies until I
had the experience of riding shotgun myself. I see exactly what they
experienced. No fun, at all.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 5:32 PM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist
wrote:

> Yah from what i can see i'm betting the bushings are all original.....i
> guess i have another winter oroject, now to decide if we upgrade or not.
>
> The seat idea is a good one, never thought of that....thanks for that
> idea.!!
>
>

> > Sounds to me like front sway bar not doing it's intended job. I would
> check
> > the links to the lower control arm on both sides, also the sway bar to
> > frame bushings. If you do not like the feeling of "wallowing around"
> during
> > cornering. I personally prefer the feel that Urethane links and bushings
> > provide, but personal tastes vary a bit. Also, check the upper and lower
> > control arm bushings. If yours are original, they are likely worn out and
> > need replacement. Urethane bushings are also available for those.
> Finally,
> > check the lower ball joint, as well as shock absorber bushings. Anything
> > does not look kosher, replace them. Your wife will thank you. Also,
> > consider moving her seat towards the center of the coach. That seat is
> > directly over the passenger side front tire.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:33 PM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist

> >
> > > Guys when you setup the chassis do you bias it any?
> > >
> > > The reason i ask is the wife says it feels like her side is falling
> when
> > > we corner to the left (yes their is a bit if off or outside camber on
> the
> > > road). I can feel it "nose in" on that right side so i'm assuming
> either
> > > the load bias is wrong, weak Tbar or something im not familar with
> yet? I
> > > havent measure ride high but its not visually bad.
> > >
> > > Anyone experience this?
> > > --
> > > Rich Mondor,
> > >
> > > Brockville, ON
> > >
> > > 77 Hughes 2600
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Ken H.]

I'm guessing you got tired of dodging all those mailboxes SHE tried to hit?

Ken H.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8:39 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> I have made a couple of seat "adjustments" because co-pilots became nervous
> riding over there. I initially "poo-pooed" those nervous Nellies until I
> had the experience of riding shotgun myself. I see exactly what they
> experienced. No fun, at all.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 5:32 PM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist <
> gmclist>

>
> > Yah from what i can see i'm betting the bushings are all original.....i
> > guess i have another winter oroject, now to decide if we upgrade or not.
> >
> > The seat idea is a good one, never thought of that....thanks for that
> > idea.!!
> >
> >

> > > Sounds to me like front sway bar not doing it's intended job. I would
> > check
> > > the links to the lower control arm on both sides, also the sway bar to
> > > frame bushings. If you do not like the feeling of "wallowing around"
> > during
> > > cornering. I personally prefer the feel that Urethane links and
> bushings
> > > provide, but personal tastes vary a bit. Also, check the upper and
> lower
> > > control arm bushings. If yours are original, they are likely worn out
> and
> > > need replacement. Urethane bushings are also available for those.
> > Finally,
> > > check the lower ball joint, as well as shock absorber bushings.
> Anything
> > > does not look kosher, replace them. Your wife will thank you. Also,
> > > consider moving her seat towards the center of the coach. That seat is
> > > directly over the passenger side front tire.
> > > Jim Hupy
> > > Salem, Oregon
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:33 PM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist

> > >
> > > > Guys when you setup the chassis do you bias it any?
> > > >
> > > > The reason i ask is the wife says it feels like her side is falling
> > when
> > > > we corner to the left (yes their is a bit if off or outside camber
> on
> > the
> > > > road). I can feel it "nose in" on that right side so i'm assuming
> > either
> > > > the load bias is wrong, weak Tbar or something im not familar with
> > yet? I
> > > > havent measure ride high but its not visually bad.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone experience this?
> > > > --
> > > > Rich Mondor,
> > > >
> > > > Brockville, ON
> > > >
> > > > 77 Hughes 2600
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rich Mondor,
> >
> > Brockville, ON
> >
> > 77 Hughes 2600
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[6cuda61]

Does the fact that the front wheels track inboard of the rears make this "feeling" more pronounced?

Anyone with spacers experience a difference after putting them on?

Im curious as to see if a wider than stock front track width would improve this as well.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[Jim Hupy]

I used to make hub centered wheel spacers, when used with the correct 16"
radial rated steel wheel that would clear the 80mm brake calipers that
widened the track width to close to the rears. I ran a set on my coach
until I bought my Eagle Alloy wheels. About the only thing I noticed
different about that setup was that it made the coach torque steer, which I
didn't like at all. The wallowing around is not a normal condition. Usually
something worn out is causing that.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 7:02 AM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist
wrote:

> Does the fact that the front wheels track inboard of the rears make this
> "feeling" more pronounced?
>
> Anyone with spacers experience a difference after putting them on?
>
> Im curious as to see if a wider than stock front track width would improve
> this as well.
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[6cuda61]

I agree and also dont like torque steer. I did go through the front end quickly when it went for a safety inspection but "passing safety" and "things
not perfect" are 2 very different things.

Ill have to rebuild the front end i suspect and may upgrade thr front swaybar as well.....maybe put bars on the rear but people talk negatively about
doing that.

> I used to make hub centered wheel spacers, when used with the correct 16"
> radial rated steel wheel that would clear the 80mm brake calipers that
> widened the track width to close to the rears. I ran a set on my coach
> until I bought my Eagle Alloy wheels. About the only thing I noticed
> different about that setup was that it made the coach torque steer, which I
> didn't like at all. The wallowing around is not a normal condition. Usually
> something worn out is causing that.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 7:02 AM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist

>
> > Does the fact that the front wheels track inboard of the rears make this
> > "feeling" more pronounced?
> >
> > Anyone with spacers experience a difference after putting them on?
> >
> > Im curious as to see if a wider than stock front track width would improve
> > this as well.
> > --
> > Rich Mondor,
> >
> > Brockville, ON
> >
> > 77 Hughes 2600
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[LQQKatJon]

I do not have direct experience with the sway bar changes as that upgraded part has not been a priority budget item. I do spend a little time with
some pretty experienced front end GMC'rs, and we were just talking about the sway bars as there happened to be about 6 of them layed out on the shop
floor last Saturday. Stock, JimK's upgraded one, and a Caspro upgraded one. each one gets larger in size with the Caspro being the largest of the
3 different one's he had on the floor. The caspro one is no longer available, but this GMC'r had a few for his own coach collecting needs.

Anyway- the GMC'r thought one of the best and simple upgrades you can do to improve stability of the GMC is to upgrade and install a heavier sway
bar. another GMC'r that stopped by to help, had just installed JimK's upgraded sway bar into his coach earlier in the week(hence the pile of old
sway bars on the ground), and claimed it made a huge difference.

the test he likes to use, is to have someone pull off the edge of the road in gravel while driving. then do that in a coach with the bigger sway
bar. He claims that that test always sells someone on installing a bigger sway bar.

just spent the money on a 2nd rebuilt transmission in the past 2 years, I will hold off on buying a sway bar, but I think it will be something I do in
the future.

--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

 

[Jim Hupy]

There are at least two different diameter front sway bars for the front.
For the rear, many options exist. I have personal experience with three
different systems. One is a big herky cross coach all out sway bar. This is
the one that most complaints center around. Another consists of two cross
coach smaller sway bars in concert with reaction arm disc brakes. That one
I have installed more than once, and have a set for my personal coach
waiting for me to install it. This setup really works well. Especially if
your bogie pins and bushings are worn, and you repair them at the same time
you install the reaction brakes, and throw in the quadra-bag setup at the
same time. Your coach will drive totally different than before. Corners
like a bowling ball going down a mail chute. You will lose some comfort and
a bit of suspension travel, but it is a good trade off.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 8:32 AM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist
wrote:

> I agree and also dont like torque steer. I did go through the front end
> quickly when it went for a safety inspection but "passing safety" and
> "things
> not perfect" are 2 very different things.
>
> Ill have to rebuild the front end i suspect and may upgrade thr front
> swaybar as well.....maybe put bars on the rear but people talk negatively
> about
> doing that.
>
>

> > I used to make hub centered wheel spacers, when used with the correct 16"
> > radial rated steel wheel that would clear the 80mm brake calipers that
> > widened the track width to close to the rears. I ran a set on my coach
> > until I bought my Eagle Alloy wheels. About the only thing I noticed
> > different about that setup was that it made the coach torque steer,
> which I
> > didn't like at all. The wallowing around is not a normal condition.
> Usually
> > something worn out is causing that.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 7:02 AM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist

> >
> > > Does the fact that the front wheels track inboard of the rears make
> this
> > > "feeling" more pronounced?
> > >
> > > Anyone with spacers experience a difference after putting them on?
> > >
> > > Im curious as to see if a wider than stock front track width would
> improve
> > > this as well.
> > > --
> > > Rich Mondor,
> > >
> > > Brockville, ON
> > >
> > > 77 Hughes 2600
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[6cuda61]

So i suspect then that JimK has the front market figured out then....i noticed that he also sells rears but are those his spec as well?

As you guys know im in Canada, basically 1hr from Ogdensburg (?) NY so shipping 3 bars from Cali is probably going to cost more than the bars
themselves... what options do you know of for other equivalents? I would love to give JimK all the business i can but with shipping/exchange it has
to be something very special.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[Carl Stouffer]

Another factor in suspension set-up is the weight distribution on all four corners. One torsion bar can lift the entire front end and be carrying way
more than it's share of weight if you're not careful. The opposite corner in the rear will try to make up for this by increasing pressure in that air
bag. That makes for a heavy wheel on the front and heavy wheels on the other side in the rear.

When I rebuilt my front end, I noticed that one of the pork chop adjusting bolts was way further in then the other one when I was disassembling it.
When I put it back together again, I evened them up as much as I could, then set the ride heights, front and rear. I had the coach weighed shortly
after that at the GMCMI rally at Pueblo, CO, and the weights were within 120# or so at all wheels.

If the weight balance is off, I'm sure it will affect your handling.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[6cuda61]

That is also what i was thinking....the weight bias is off....maybe i can find a set of commercial scales to drive over.

> Another factor in suspension set-up is the weight distribution on all four corners. One torsion bar can lift the entire front end and be carrying
> way more than it's share of weight if you're not careful. The opposite corner in the rear will try to make up for this by increasing pressure in
> that air bag. That makes for a heavy wheel on the front and heavy wheels on the other side in the rear.
>
> When I rebuilt my front end, I noticed that one of the pork chop adjusting bolts was way further in then the other one when I was disassembling
> it. When I put it back together again, I evened them up as much as I could, then set the ride heights, front and rear. I had the coach weighed
> shortly after that at the GMCMI rally at Pueblo, CO, and the weights were within 120# or so at all wheels.
>
> If the weight balance is off, I'm sure it will affect your handling.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[dave king]

To Rich M re weighing your coach, Ken Burton probably has the most experience but he is a long way from you. (and me)
From my 4 wheel racing experience ( racing and tech inspector) I am somewhat familiar with weighing things.
Most commercial scales that could be used to weigh a motorhome are probably platform scale so they are not condusive
to doing individual wheel weights. Called corner weights at the race track. It can be done on platform scales but requires
a bunch of moving about. If you still have original style GMC rear suspension you should be able to consider each rear
side as one wheel. Rear tire pressures in the side you are doing should be set to the same as each other. Just weighing
one front and then the rear on that side and then turning around and doing the other side may not give good results.
The platform and the pavement beside it need to be in the same plane or the results won't be valid. If the local MTO
office are nice guys ask them if the have individual wheel scales and would they mind participating in the excercise.
Don't do this until you have confirmed at a commercial scale that you coach is NOT over the listed GVW. Have fun.
--
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 

[6cuda61]

Thanks Dave...yes very familiar with corner scaling from my racing days as well...lol. Great idea with the MTO, being a licensed mechanic, an
apprentaship instructor and currently an instructor teaching techs how to repair our products (which MTO inspects) should win me some browny
points....lol.

Im wondering if you could do the rears like we did with trailers and look at max air verses ride height to see loads weight.....anyone try it?

> To Rich M re weighing your coach, Ken Burton probably has the most experience but he is a long way from you. (and me)
> From my 4 wheel racing experience ( racing and tech inspector) I am somewhat familiar with weighing things.
> Most commercial scales that could be used to weigh a motorhome are probably platform scale so they are not condusive
> to doing individual wheel weights. Called corner weights at the race track. It can be done on platform scales but requires
> a bunch of moving about. If you still have original style GMC rear suspension you should be able to consider each rear
> side as one wheel. Rear tire pressures in the side you are doing should be set to the same as each other. Just weighing
> one front and then the rear on that side and then turning around and doing the other side may not give good results.
> The platform and the pavement beside it need to be in the same plane or the results won't be valid. If the local MTO
> office are nice guys ask them if the have individual wheel scales and would they mind participating in the excercise.
> Don't do this until you have confirmed at a commercial scale that you coach is NOT over the listed GVW. Have fun.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[Richard RV]

Rich,

Have you sat in the passenger seat while your wife or someone else drives? Besides the typical passenger seat status as the "nervous seat", the GMC
has the most exposed feeling seating position of any vehicle I've driven. Every other vehicle you sit down in it and there's a dashboard in front of
you giving a semblance of protection. The passenger sits on a GMC and the dashboard barely comes up to your bellybutton. It takes some getting used
to.

Of course, as usual, you've gotten a lot of good responses on how to deal with mechanical issues, but there's a not insubstantial psychological
component as well.

Richard
--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach with 18,477 verified miles;
‘76 Edgemonte

 

[dave king]

To Rich M. I think I just read on here something about setting ride height. If left side to right side front ride height is not equal,
I would suspect the weights would be off. i point about ride height I had forgotten was to set the rear at the correct height with the
BOGIE castings on blocks so the rear leveling doesn't try to compensate for what is being done to the front. I guess without wheel scales at home one
would need to get the ride heights correct front and rear then go to the scales, As someone recently posted they front their front adjustment bolts
very unequal and when the made them the same with correct ride height, wheel weights were no too bad.

I guess it's something like trying to adjust camber and castor. Change one change the other change the first one again. Gradually sneak up on it.

Because of what you do you may have god luck with the MTO. They definitely have the equipment.
--
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 

[Richard RV]

Dave & Rich,

I was visiting a GMCer near the Thousand Islands and he told me that the Canadian weigh station near him had the scales always on and operative.
Damned if they weren't! I don't know if that's typical on the cold side of the border, but worth checking out.

Those scales also didn't have the "lane chute" so I could pull the whole axle(s) on the scale than just the wheel(s) on one side and do a little
arithmetic.

As far as the slope of the road, when a truck is pulled over and they break out the scales, the road isn't always level. If you Google it you'll find
the equation they use to compensate for the weight difference due to the slope. Generally, though, a degree or two out won't make an appreciable
difference.

Richard

--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach with 18,477 verified miles;
‘76 Edgemonte

 

[Ron Clark]

The scales are always functional in Oregon, also. Just wait until the
weigh station is closed for the trucks, and go on in.

Ron

On Fri, 07 Aug 2020 20:41:34 -0600 Richard via Gmclist

> Dave & Rich,
>
> I was visiting a GMCer near the Thousand Islands and he told me that
> the Canadian weigh station near him had the scales always on and
> operative.
> Damned if they weren't! I don't know if that's typical on the cold
> side of the border, but worth checking out.
>

 

[6cuda61]

No only sat there to clean etc.....but i do understand what the wife is saying. I know its unlike riding any car etc and unless i get it fixed it will
be hard to convince the co-pilot that this old bird is worth taking on any more trips.

> Rich,
>
> Have you sat in the passenger seat while your wife or someone else drives? Besides the typical passenger seat status as the "nervous seat", the
> GMC has the most exposed feeling seating position of any vehicle I've driven. Every other vehicle you sit down in it and there's a dashboard in
> front of you giving a semblance of protection. The passenger sits on a GMC and the dashboard barely comes up to your bellybutton. It takes some
> getting used to.
>
> Of course, as usual, you've gotten a lot of good responses on how to deal with mechanical issues, but there's a not insubstantial psychological
> component as well.
>
> Richard

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600