cam timing, get the facts before you fire!

thomas g. warner

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Mar 24, 1998
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I think your remarks are unfounded and totally unsubstantiated, including
the one "Make sure all the mistakes are in your favor". Joe Mondello is one
of the best when it comes to building engines, and especially olds 455's.
No one makes one that puts out more Horse power.

If you had taken the time to get a copy of his technical reference manuals
you would get all of the answers without jumping to conclusions or starting
more myths. In camshafts you get what you pay for, and I sure would not go
locally to buy one unless I knew an awful lot about the person doing it.

Want to start a real controversey, take your olds heads to your local
machine shop and ask them to recondition them. After they say they can,
have them explain how they will do it. Than ask them if they can put in
hardened valve seats and when they say sure, ask them how thick they are.
Tell me what they say for the valve seats.

The problem is not with Mondello it is how you ask the questions. They are
not mind readers.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
> Something interesting he
>said. Many of the aftermarket camshafts are not all that accurate in valve
>timing and that is why he sells one now for the GMC motorhome. I will be
>interested in knowing if there is any performance increase with yours.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Here we go again.The more I hear about this Mondello The farther down the
>list he goes.
> Nowhere in his advise did he say anything about degreeing in the cam but he
>is worried about the accuracy of the other cam grinders. Might I suggest
>that anyone who is interested look in your local phone book under cam
>grinders, talk to them, maybe even go down and watch them grind a cam. It is
>truly fascinating.
>
>This is a quote from http://camcraftcams.com/
>
>. "There can easily be 4 or even 6 degree variations in different brands of
>timing sets. Proper valve timing quickly becomes a crap shoot without a
>degree wheel. Published valve timing is only a suggested starting point
>based on dyno testing and track experience. If you don't know where your
>valve timing is then the cam grinder or engine builder cannot recommend
>changes to help you get the most out of your engine."
>
>As you can see from this statement installing a cam can be critical if you
>are on the top end of 500hp. Down here where we are a couple degrees one way
>or another is no big deal. go to Heinz's site and look at the amount of play
>in his timing chain. It still ran good. This variation of 4 or even 6
>degrees explains why some engines run stronger than others. We don't always
>make mistakes to the bad side. Sometimes it goes our way. Once had a 327
>chev engine that would clean everyone's clock. Box stock. Never touched it.
>All the mistakes were in my favor. And that is the secret to building a
>strong engine. Make sure all the mistakes are in your favor.
>
>Just my .02
>
>Terry Skinner
>Webfooted in Washington
>'76 Glenbrook
>
>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:58:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Warner
Subject: Re: GMC: cam timing, get the facts before you fire!

I think your remarks are unfounded and totally unsubstantiated, including
the one "Make sure all the mistakes are in your favor". Joe Mondello is one
of the best when it comes to building engines, and especially olds 455's.
No one makes one that puts out more Horse power.

I don't want 500 hp. I want reliability.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you had taken the time to get a copy of his technical reference manuals
you would get all of the answers without jumping to conclusions or starting
more myths. In camshafts you get what you pay for, and I sure would not go
locally to buy one unless I knew an awful lot about the person doing it.

I do have his manual and every thing in it was available at the public
library. Cam shaft grinders are internally calibrated and once they are
installed in the shop they will turn out cams like cord wood. It's not
necessary to know how many kids he has or what he takes in his coffee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Want to start a real controversy, take your olds heads to your local
machine shop and ask them to recondition them. After they say they can,
have them explain how they will do it. Than ask them if they can put in
hardened valve seats and when they say sure, ask them how thick they are.
Tell me what they say for the valve seats.

I have, And any of the competent shops already know about that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
The problem is not with Mondello it is how you ask the questions. They are
not mind readers.

I agree. But when someone says that everyone else's cams are 6 degrees off
when you know it is easy to compensate for is not exactly Kosher. It's the
kind of statement a person makes to sell you something You don't need.

Our objective is to get enough information so that we can make intelligent
decisions. I assure you that I am interested in what you and everyone else
has to say.

Terry Skinner
Webfooted in Washington
'76 Glenbrook
 
Are you the same Rick that yelled and screamed when some questioned the high
price that some mechanics charge??? And I suppose you believe that anyone
can go to the library and get a book, buy some craftsman wrenches and become
a first class mechanic. Yuh! right.

And now $28 is to much to pay for 40 years of Joe Mondellos oldsmobile 455
engine tricks. And now you say you want to consult it and give it
consideration???? What credentials do you have to question his expertise?
Joe Mondello, to the best of my recollection is not bad mouthing (your
words) anyone. Anyone worth his salt will check the competition and tell it
like it is. You can't have it both ways.

Bottom line is that there is a lot of junk out there, and 10 times as much
erroneous information. Joe Mondello tells it like it is.

JC whitney advertises a true roller timing chain for $39 and wants you THINK
that it is the same quality as the Cloyes true roller chain. And guess what?
There are thousands of suckers out there that believe it and buy it and than
cry that something is wrong with the performance of their engine.. Well DUH!
You do not get research development expertise for nothing.

59 years has taught me one thing. Price is forgotten long after quality is
remembered. Buy cheap and pay the price.

>
>> when someone says that everyone else's cams are 6 degrees off
>> when you know it is easy to compensate for is not exactly Kosher. It's the
>> kind of statement a person makes to sell you something You don't need.
>
>Terry,
> Well said. I have great respect for Joe Mondello, for the years of
>research and effort he has put into the Olds engine, for his willingness to
>share the information (albeit at the price of his books) with us. I wish him
>success.
> But.... He puts his pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us.
>Like all mechanics/technicians/humans, he can be opinionated. His (modified)
>position on thermostats vs flow restrictors shows he can over-react like the
>rest of us. And if he indeed is bad-mouthing the competition in general, he
>can suffer from too much pride, like the rest of us.
> His books may indeed be the "Bible" of Oldsmobile performance, and as such
>should be consulted and given consideration. For myself, I don't even accept
>the words of that other Bible without thinking, testing, and asking whether
>they apply to my situation in today's world. In both cases, sometimes they
>do not.
> My .02.
>
>Rick Staples
>'75 Eleganza
>Louisville, CO
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
There is no right or wrong on this Net.

Let's lighten up guys.

I can find enough stress in my daily life without having to read it on
the Net.

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
200 Macfarlane Drive PH 4
Delray Beach, FL 33483-6829
800-827-9989
 
Dave the stress we are hopefully trying to eliminate is the real stress that
comes from your coach breaking down without the resources or expertise to
correct it far from home. These kind of discussions are important to
resolve so we can reduce the chance of that happening. If a person is not
willing to defend his position with facts, or more dialog, than maybe he
should not have made the statement in the first place. Remember the old
world war 2 saying "loose lips sink ships" maybe ours should be "uninformed
opinions that are acted on can cause you financial and bodily harm".

>There is no right or wrong on this Net.
>
> Let's lighten up guys.
>
>I can find enough stress in my daily life without having to read it on
>the Net.
>
> David Lee Greenberg
> GMC Motorhome Registry
> 200 Macfarlane Drive PH 4
>Delray Beach, FL 33483-6829
> 800-827-9989
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
I understand the value of contrary positions but lets have them without
attacking each other.

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
200 Macfarlane Drive PH 4
Delray Beach, FL 33483-6829
800-827-9989