Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

>
> Patrick:
>
> Unless you call approximately $150 for machining "pretty extensive", I would
> disagree with that characterization.
>
> Paul Bartz

If you can find someone willing to do it for $150. I can't speak for
Manny, but the price he was quoted was quite a bit higher than that. We
spoke on this subject at Marion and at that time he told me he ordered
the parts kit from TSM and obtained calipers from a salvage yard.

I couldn't find the requisite Eldo's in the Atlanta area and decided the
time that I was burning looking for parts was worth more than TSM's
asking price.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
>
> Everyone is talking about the TSM conversion but no one has listed the exact
> parts to order including the part numbers. Lets make a deal. If you are
> advising or describing a modification please please list the part numbers of
> the exact material you are using.
>
> Now has anyone got the part numbers for the TSM conversion?

Thomas, just call TSM. Skip will know what you need. Just decide which
calipers you want.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
>
> I'm hoping that my kit gets here tomorrow as promised because I'm supposed to
> pull out for a trip on Saturday. The rear is up on blocks and everything is
> prepared to put on the disc brakes.

Emery,

Have you called them to confirm shipment? They missed a promised ship
date with me. Apparently our GMC stuff is small potatos compared with
their other lines, so we get put on the back burner for bigger deals -
that's business :(

Bleeding advice - since you're only replacing hardware at the rear
suspension, you shouldn't have as much trouble as I did. Try gravity
bleeding first and then the old tried and true "stand on the pedal and
bleed" routine. That's what finally worked for me. A pressure bleeder
would be nice if you have access to one. My vacuum bleeder just caused
me a bunch of heartache.

Also, you might want to pick up some 80mm calipers at AutoZone and ask
Skip nicely if he'll take the middle calipers back.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Paul, Thanks for the heads up on that.
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>Dick:
>
>Rotors for use on the rear wheel disk brakes are same as El Dorado and not
>Toronado. In addition they need to be drilled in three places.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: Richard Bachert [mailto:bachert]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 2:23 PM
>Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos
>
>It simply looks to be a situation where, with the proper rotors (which
>several posts indicate are same year Toronado
>
>
 
I couldn't help but notice your schedule. Something like that would
take me 2 months. 1 month to try and figure things out, get the necessary
parts and the 2nd month to do the work. I guess you have the first month
already done. My hats off to you Emery!

>
> I'm hoping that my kit gets here tomorrow as promised because I'm supposed to
> pull out for a trip on Saturday. The rear is up on blocks and everything is
> prepared to put on the disc brakes.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
 
>
> Can anyone tell me if TSM will provide the recommended caliper part numbers
> if one does not purchase the calipers from them or is one on one's own in
> that regard?
> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

I don't know that they will tell you part numbers(those would vary
depending on where you bought your parts), but they'll tell you the
application. They're pretty straightforward in that they'll sell you
whichever parts you want. Their caliper prices are pretty good tho' -
the non-parking brake calipers are $100 a pair with carbon metallic pads
and all hardware.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Can anyone tell me if TSM will provide the recommended caliper part numbers
if one does not purchase the calipers from them or is one on one's own in
that regard?
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>>
>> Patrick:
>>
>> Unless you call approximately $150 for machining "pretty extensive", I would
>> disagree with that characterization.
>>
>> Paul Bartz
>
>If you can find someone willing to do it for $150. I can't speak for
>Manny, but the price he was quoted was quite a bit higher than that. We
>spoke on this subject at Marion and at that time he told me he ordered
>the parts kit from TSM and obtained calipers from a salvage yard.
>
>I couldn't find the requisite Eldo's in the Atlanta area and decided the
>time that I was burning looking for parts was worth more than TSM's
>asking price.
>
>Patrick
>--
>Patrick Flowers
>Mailto:patrick
>
>The GMC Motorhome Page
>http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
>
 
Paul,

I can't see how you can do this with only three additional holes unless
you're only using four bolts to hold the rotors on. Heinz has a good
picture of the TSM rotors at:

http://www.bytedesigns.com/gmc/DiscBrakes/Kit-content-set.jpg

Of course there's probably nothing wrong with only using four bolts. I've
often wondered why the front rotors were held on by four bolts and the rear
drums by eight.

Patrick

> Rotors for use on the rear wheel disk brakes are same as El
> Dorado and not Toronado. In addition they need to be
> drilled in three places.
>
 
I am sure that someone at TSM knows all of the part numbers. However before
I would consider installing them I want to make sure that they will be
available for some time in the future. Doesn't do much good to buy and
upgrade only to have the company go out of business next year and find out
that they used obsolete parts or ones that are no longer available. the
beauty of the GMC is that one can still get parts for it.

>>
>> Can anyone tell me if TSM will provide the recommended caliper part numbers
>> if one does not purchase the calipers from them or is one on one's own in
>> that regard?
>> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
>
>I don't know that they will tell you part numbers(those would vary
>depending on where you bought your parts), but they'll tell you the
>application. They're pretty straightforward in that they'll sell you
>whichever parts you want. Their caliper prices are pretty good tho' -
>the non-parking brake calipers are $100 a pair with carbon metallic pads
>and all hardware.
>
>Patrick
>--
>Patrick Flowers
>Mailto:patrick
>
>The GMC Motorhome Page
>http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
> I am sure that someone at TSM knows all of the part numbers.

All the part numbers? You really expect them to know the interchange for
ALL the different parts outlets? As I wrote below, the part numbers will
vary depending on where you buy them. The actual application is what's
important - that's what allows you to walk into Autozone and say, "sell me a
front caliper for a 1978 Chevy Monte Carlo." The calipers used in the TSM
conversion are common GM issue, with the possible exception of the rear eldo
calipers which were only used a couple years. But there are other rear
wheel calipers with parking brakes that will fit the bracket.

> However before I would consider installing them I want to make
> sure that they will be available for some time in the future.
> Doesn't do much good to buy and upgrade only to have the
> company go out of business next year and find out that they
> used obsolete parts or ones that are no longer available. the
> beauty of the GMC is that one can still get parts for it.

How would knowing the part number help here? Again, what you need to know
is the application! If it's a brake caliper from a late model GMC sedan,
it'll be around for ages. The only parts that TSM really "manufactures" are
the caliper brackets and spacer rings, neither of which are "wear out"
parts, nor are they likely to break - and if they do, a talented machinist
could make you another using the old one for a pattern.

Why don't you just call TSM at 303-688-6882 or email them at tsmmfg?
They can answer your questions on this better than we can.

Patrick

> >>
> >> Can anyone tell me if TSM will provide the recommended
> caliper part numbers
> >> if one does not purchase the calipers from them or is one
> on one's own in
> >> that regard?
> >> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
> >
> >I don't know that they will tell you part numbers(those would vary
> >depending on where you bought your parts), but they'll tell you the
> >application. They're pretty straightforward in that they'll sell you
> >whichever parts you want. Their caliper prices are pretty
> good tho' -
> >the non-parking brake calipers are $100 a pair with carbon
> metallic pads
> >and all hardware.
 
Patrick I don't want to belabor the point, however my intention is clear.
Upon checking the TSM site I could find any information on either the GMC
conversion or any reference to the previously furnished conversion part
number, GMC setup is callie Kit 2700.

Before I install any mechanical modification to my coach, I want to ensure
that it is supportable for a long time in the future, and is not a Rube
Goldberg hot rod design that will disappear tomorrow. If I hae a problem on
the road I want access to parts in a reasonable time. I do not want to rely
on one company that may go out of business tomorrow.

I am not aware that anyone has previously noted that TSM is using GM
calipers from some specific year in their conversion packages. I am sure
that you understand that many years of GM cars have numerous alternative
braking options depending on use, and many of them were of limited production.

In the case of the rear drum brakes they are still fully supportable by both
Cinnabar and others, and can be obtained quickly. I would like to install
rear disks but am cautious.



>
>> I am sure that someone at TSM knows all of the part numbers.
>
>All the part numbers? You really expect them to know the interchange for
>ALL the different parts outlets? As I wrote below, the part numbers will
>vary depending on where you buy them. The actual application is what's
>important - that's what allows you to walk into Autozone and say, "sell me a
>front caliper for a 1978 Chevy Monte Carlo." The calipers used in the TSM
>conversion are common GM issue, with the possible exception of the rear eldo
>calipers which were only used a couple years. But there are other rear
>wheel calipers with parking brakes that will fit the bracket.
>
>> However before I would consider installing them I want to make
>> sure that they will be available for some time in the future.
>> Doesn't do much good to buy and upgrade only to have the
>> company go out of business next year and find out that they
>> used obsolete parts or ones that are no longer available. the
>> beauty of the GMC is that one can still get parts for it.
>
>How would knowing the part number help here? Again, what you need to know
>is the application! If it's a brake caliper from a late model GMC sedan,
>it'll be around for ages. The only parts that TSM really "manufactures" are
>the caliper brackets and spacer rings, neither of which are "wear out"
>parts, nor are they likely to break - and if they do, a talented machinist
>could make you another using the old one for a pattern.
>
>Why don't you just call TSM at 303-688-6882 or email them at tsmmfg?
>They can answer your questions on this better than we can.
>
>Patrick
>

>> >>
>> >> Can anyone tell me if TSM will provide the recommended
>> caliper part numbers
>> >> if one does not purchase the calipers from them or is one
>> on one's own in
>> >> that regard?
>> >> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
>> >
>> >I don't know that they will tell you part numbers(those would vary
>> >depending on where you bought your parts), but they'll tell you the
>> >application. They're pretty straightforward in that they'll sell you
>> >whichever parts you want. Their caliper prices are pretty
>> good tho' -
>> >the non-parking brake calipers are $100 a pair with carbon
>> metallic pads
>> >and all hardware.
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
you wrote,
>
> Patrick
> I just read your post to Paul about the holes in the rotors
> for the cad conversion. You only drill three holes ,they
> will match with one other which gives you four holes to hold
> the rotor on.

This was what confused me, since the TSM conversion(which I just installed)
uses 8 bolts to hold the rotor on.

> I have the system on for over a year and MY only problem
> is getting the air out and getting a good high pedal.
> Just got through bleeding them again and I believe thy
> are better.

I had a lot of trouble getting mine completely bled out too, but I kept
trying to use a vacuum bleeder which caused as many problems as it cured.
Finally had my wife help me with the old "pump the pedal and bleed"
technique. Hope to test drive tonight after fastening everything back down.

Thanks!
Patrick
 
If need be, the parts can be shipped UPS to a machine shop in Louisville
that Bobby Moore has used to do a number of them.

Paul Bartz

From: Patrick Flowers [mailto:patri63]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

Patrick:
Unless you call approximately $150 for machining "pretty extensive", I would
disagree with that characterization.
Paul Bartz

If you can find someone willing to do it for $150. I can't speak for Manny,
but the price he was quoted was quite a bit higher than that. We spoke on
this subject at Marion and at that time he told me he ordered the parts kit
from TSM and obtained calipers from a salvage yard.
I couldn't find the requisite Eldo's in the Atlanta area and decided the
time that I was burning looking for parts was worth more than TSM's asking
price.
 
...and until the inventor of the Internet, Algore, finally shuts it down or
taxes it out of reach of us GMCers who are spending all our spare change on
our rigs, we ought to be able to continue exchanging those part numbers as
the individual members discover and share them with the net.
BTW, can some of our Tennessee members confirm that the dirt-floor log cabin
in which Algore was born is being constructed as you read this? Just wondering.
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>
>> I am sure that someone at TSM knows all of the part numbers.
>
>All the part numbers? You really expect them to know the interchange for
>ALL the different parts outlets? As I wrote below, the part numbers will
>vary depending on where you buy them. The actual application is what's
>important - that's what allows you to walk into Autozone and say, "sell me a
>front caliper for a 1978 Chevy Monte Carlo." The calipers used in the TSM
>conversion are common GM issue, with the possible exception of the rear eldo
>calipers which were only used a couple years. But there are other rear
>wheel calipers with parking brakes that will fit the bracket.
>
>> However before I would consider installing them I want to make
>> sure that they will be available for some time in the future.
>> Doesn't do much good to buy and upgrade only to have the
>> company go out of business next year and find out that they
>> used obsolete parts or ones that are no longer available. the
>> beauty of the GMC is that one can still get parts for it.
>
>How would knowing the part number help here? Again, what you need to know
>is the application! If it's a brake caliper from a late model GMC sedan,
>it'll be around for ages. The only parts that TSM really "manufactures" are
>the caliper brackets and spacer rings, neither of which are "wear out"
>parts, nor are they likely to break - and if they do, a talented machinist
>could make you another using the old one for a pattern.
>
>Why don't you just call TSM at 303-688-6882 or email them at tsmmfg?
>They can answer your questions on this better than we can.
>
>Patrick
>

>> >>
>> >> Can anyone tell me if TSM will provide the recommended
>> caliper part numbers
>> >> if one does not purchase the calipers from them or is one
>> on one's own in
>> >> that regard?
>> >> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
>> >
>> >I don't know that they will tell you part numbers(those would vary
>> >depending on where you bought your parts), but they'll tell you the
>> >application. They're pretty straightforward in that they'll sell you
>> >whichever parts you want. Their caliper prices are pretty
>> good tho' -
>> >the non-parking brake calipers are $100 a pair with carbon
>> metallic pads
>> >and all hardware.
>
 
>
> I put the AutoZone 80mm calipers on the front wheels a few months back. The
> ones that came from TSM were 60 mm. The 80s would give 40 x 40 / 30 x 30 =
> 1.78 times the pressure on the pads. Do you feel that there would be any
> significant loss of pedal height using the standard master cylinder if I put
> 80 mm on the front bogie wheels? I will be using the Cadillac calipers with
> the parking brake levers on the rear bogie wheels.

There would probably be some loss of pedal height(more properly
"increased pedal travel"), but the additional amount of fluid you would
be moving would likely be insignificant - the caliper pistons just don't
move very much. Since I've already gotten my 60mm calipers dirty, I'm
gonna' test drive it like that before going to the 80mm front calipers
to get a "seat of the pants" comparison. You're welcome to wait until
after I play test pilot if you want.

One other thing I noticed on the 60mm calipers. You need to be careful
about clearance on the braided hose at the banjo end. I had to grind a
little on the cast ring around the banjo to keep the hose from rubbing
on the end of the bogie. You wouldn't have that problem with the 80mm
caliper - the banjo fitting is on the back.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Emery, Do you have the AutoZone part numbers for those calipers. I, too, am
heading in the same direction: 80mm on front, 80mm on front bogies and
whatever comes with the mechanical parking brake cals for the trailers.
As always, thanks for helping us to not have to reinvent the wheel -- or, in
this case, the calipers for them. :-)
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>>
>> I put the AutoZone 80mm calipers on the front wheels a few months back. The
>> ones that came from TSM were 60 mm. The 80s would give 40 x 40 / 30 x 30 =
>> 1.78 times the pressure on the pads. Do you feel that there would be any
>> significant loss of pedal height using the standard master cylinder if I put
>> 80 mm on the front bogie wheels? I will be using the Cadillac calipers with
>> the parking brake levers on the rear bogie wheels.
>
>There would probably be some loss of pedal height(more properly
>"increased pedal travel"), but the additional amount of fluid you would
>be moving would likely be insignificant - the caliper pistons just don't
>move very much. Since I've already gotten my 60mm calipers dirty, I'm
>gonna' test drive it like that before going to the 80mm front calipers
>to get a "seat of the pants" comparison. You're welcome to wait until
>after I play test pilot if you want.
>
>One other thing I noticed on the 60mm calipers. You need to be careful
>about clearance on the braided hose at the banjo end. I had to grind a
>little on the cast ring around the banjo to keep the hose from rubbing
>on the end of the bogie. You wouldn't have that problem with the 80mm
>caliper - the banjo fitting is on the back.
>
>Patrick
>--
>Patrick Flowers
>Mailto:patrick
>
>The GMC Motorhome Page
>http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
>
 
Dick:

Left side should be 90557 and right side 90553.

Paul Bartz

From: Richard Bachert [mailto:bachert]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

Gene, You wouldn't have the part number for those AutoZone e-brake calipers
part number handy would you?

Dick

I bought Cadillac emergency brake caliper from Autozone the were about $140
but you get about $ 75 for a trade in.

My Auto zone ones started to leak and I tried avail my self of the lifetime
warranty, but they didn't have any in stock. They returned my money and I
purchased one from Carquest for About $80 dollars .they only gave about $10
dollars for a core. All of these are rebuilt of course.

I like the idea of a bulletin boards for parts.

Gene
 
Emery, My local AutoZone quoted me prices (once we lept the language
barrier) of $29.99 (no core charge, obviously!) for either of these part
numbers. He claimed they WERE brake calipers and had LIFETIME WARRANTIES. I
don't have a reputation for bitching about paying too LITTLE for things.
What DOES concern me is that these $$$ look like they're for the non parking
brake cals for front (drive wheels)(90184) and front bogies (90185) or vice
versa.
With TSM getting 100 bucks for the plain cals and 300 for the e-brake
mechanism equipped cals, these $$$ just don't look right.
Did I misunderstand your post (below)?
And if I DID misunderstand, do you have a number for the e-brake cal or did
you get that one from TSM?
Sorry to be such a pain-in-the-butt, BUT I really do want to get this right
- -- not only for myself but for the others monitoring this thread.
Thanks,
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>

>
>>
>
>Dick - the part numbers for the calipers are AUTO ZONE Part #90184 and
>#90185. The numbers for the front hoses are # 77320 and #77421 for the banjo
>hoses. I don't know if these hoses would be long enough to do the rear
>wheels.
>
>Emery Stora
>77 Kingsley
>Santa Fe, NM
>
 
Gene, You wouldn't have the part number for those AutoZone e-brake calipers
part number handy would you?
Thanks,
Dick

>Dick
>I bought cadilac emergency brake caliper from Autozone the were about $140
>but you get about $ 75 for a trade in.
>My Auto zone ones started to leak and I tried avail my self of the lifetime
>warranty,but they didn't have any in stock.They returned my money and I
>purchased one from Carquest for About $80 dollars .they only gave about $10
>dollars for a core.All of these are rebuilt of course.
>I like the idea of a bulletin boards for parts.
>Gene
>73 Glacier
>
 
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