Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

[dave lowry]

After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking lot
and did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make
sure the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our
rear shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than
the other?

I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be ideal,
but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
disc/drum system.

I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective when
cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
netters?

Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock calipers?

Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay $60+/hr).

Many Thanks,

___________
Dave (& Dege), '76 Royale /_][__] [_] | "SR JAMES"
Santa Barbara, CA *-O------OO--*

 

[thomas g. warner]

You know Dave this might be a good opportunity for you or someone to start a
GMC club in your area and have a weekend brake project so one experienced
person could help all of the rest do the job right from ordering the correct
materials to actually doing the work. You could accomplish a couple of
things. Get acquainted with other GMCers, get a good job done, and learn
more about the coach.I know I would be willing to do it in my area.

Just a thought

>After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking lot
>and did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make
>sure the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our
>rear shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than
>the other?
>
>I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be ideal,
>but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
>disc/drum system.
>
>I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective when
>cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
>netters?
>
>Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock calipers?
>
>Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay $60+/hr).
>
>Many Thanks,
>
> ___________
>Dave (& Dege), '76 Royale /_][__] [_] | "SR JAMES"
> Santa Barbara, CA *-O------OO--*
>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach

 

[bartz paul]

Dave:

Would you believe it if I told you that you could have six-wheel disc brakes
for less than $800.00 using the Cadillac El Dorado backing plates, exclusive
of installation labor??

Also, I have not heard of carbon metallic in other than pads for disc
brakes. I've put over 40,000 miles on my carbon metallic in four years and
still have half the pad thickness left. They wear like iron.

As to the heat issue, I can't tell any difference in their efficiency
whether cold or hot. That claim is probably more valid on racing
applications with continuous brake application. Supposedly the pad
coefficient of friction goes up as the material temperature rises.

Paul Bartz

From: Dave Lowry [mailto:dlowry]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:17 AM
Subject: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking lot and
did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make sure
the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our rear
shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than the
other?
I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be ideal,
but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
disc/drum system.
I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective when
cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
netters?
Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock
calipers?
Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay
$60+/hr).

 

[bartz paul]

Scott:

The 76-78 El Dorado rear axle backing plates are what the system/structure
is built around. The backing plate replaces the original (brake shoe type)
backing plate on each of the four rear wheels.

If you already have rear disc brakes, you don't need this.

Paul Bartz

From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

In a message dated 4/19/99 1:55:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Would you believe it if I told you that you could have six-wheel disc brakes
for less than $800.00 using the Cadillac El Dorado backing plates, exclusive
of installation labor??

Hi Paul!

What are you talking about here? Where do backing plates come in when you
have disc brakes?

 

[bartz paul]

Dick:

Did you go to Myrtle Beach? They were on display there, on Frank =
Folkman's
coach on the vender's row.

He replaced original master cylinder with the P 30 master cylinder, 80 =
mm
front and front rear axle caliper's, and 2 =BD" rear rear axle =
caliper's, of
course there are other parts (e. g. hoses, hose bracket's, etc.). =
Frank
found nearly all the parts at AutoZone. Their 80 mm rebuilt caliper is
$12.99 + $17.00 core charge. Some machine work is required on the =
backing
plate to fit the coach axle.

On the return trip home I drove Frank's coach when we were convoying =
back
and his brakes are awesome. I put Leigh Harrison's system on my coach =
in
1995.

I might add that Bobby Moore has given seminar's on this system at =
several
recent GMCMI convention's (e. g. New Hampshire).

If you are going to Bean Station next month, Bobby will be there.

Paul Bartz

From: Richard Bachert [mailto:bachert]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

Sure would like to know more about those Caddy disc brakes.
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>Dave:
>
>Would you believe it if I told you that you could have six-wheel disc
brakes
>for less than $800.00 using the Cadillac El Dorado backing plates,
exclusive
>of installation labor??
>
>Also, I have not heard of carbon metallic in other than pads for disc
>brakes. I've put over 40,000 miles on my carbon metallic in four =
years and
>still have half the pad thickness left. They wear like iron.
>
>As to the heat issue, I can't tell any difference in their efficiency
>whether cold or hot. That claim is probably more valid on racing
>applications with continuous brake application. Supposedly the pad
>coefficient of friction goes up as the material temperature rises.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: Dave Lowry [mailto:dlowry]
>Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:17 AM
>Subject: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos
>
>After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking =
lot
and
>did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make =
sure
>the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our =
rear
>shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than =
the
>other?
>I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be =
ideal,
>but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
>disc/drum system.
>I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective =
when
>cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
>netters?
>Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock
>calipers?
>Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay
>$60+/hr).
>

 

[thomas g. warner]

Paul which Cad hardware can I use for the bogie brakes besides the backing
plates? Which years?

>Dave:
>
>Would you believe it if I told you that you could have six-wheel disc brakes
>for less than $800.00 using the Cadillac El Dorado backing plates, exclusive
>of installation labor??
>
>Also, I have not heard of carbon metallic in other than pads for disc
>brakes. I've put over 40,000 miles on my carbon metallic in four years and
>still have half the pad thickness left. They wear like iron.
>
>As to the heat issue, I can't tell any difference in their efficiency
>whether cold or hot. That claim is probably more valid on racing
>applications with continuous brake application. Supposedly the pad
>coefficient of friction goes up as the material temperature rises.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: Dave Lowry [mailto:dlowry]
>Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:17 AM
>Subject: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos
>
>After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking lot and
>did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make sure
>the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our rear
>shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than the
>other?
>I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be ideal,
>but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
>disc/drum system.
>I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective when
>cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
>netters?
>Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock
>calipers?
>Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay
>$60+/hr).
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach

 

[bartz paul]

Thomas:

In an earlier post I detailed some of the parts. Let me know if you didn't
get it.

Paul

From: Thomas G. Warner [mailto:warner]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

Paul which Cad hardware can I use for the bogie brakes besides the backing
plates? Which years?

>Dave:
>
>Would you believe it if I told you that you could have six-wheel disc
brakes
>for less than $800.00 using the Cadillac El Dorado backing plates,
exclusive
>of installation labor??
>
>Also, I have not heard of carbon metallic in other than pads for disc
>brakes. I've put over 40,000 miles on my carbon metallic in four years and
>still have half the pad thickness left. They wear like iron.
>
>As to the heat issue, I can't tell any difference in their efficiency
>whether cold or hot. That claim is probably more valid on racing
>applications with continuous brake application. Supposedly the pad
>coefficient of friction goes up as the material temperature rises.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: Dave Lowry [mailto:dlowry]
>Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:17 AM
>Subject: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos
>
>After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking lot
and
>did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make sure
>the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our rear
>shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than the
>other?
>I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be ideal,
>but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
>disc/drum system.
>I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective when
>cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
>netters?
>Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock
>calipers?
>Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay
>$60+/hr).
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach

 

[thomas g. warner]

I have the one about 76-78 cad backing plates, but do you use all of the
other cad hardware also, ie; calipers pads etc?

>Thomas:
>
>In an earlier post I detailed some of the parts. Let me know if you didn't
>get it.
>
> Paul
>
>From: Thomas G. Warner [mailto:warner]
>Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:56 PM
>Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos
>
>Paul which Cad hardware can I use for the bogie brakes besides the backing
>plates? Which years?
>
>

>>Dave:
>>
>>Would you believe it if I told you that you could have six-wheel disc
>brakes
>>for less than $800.00 using the Cadillac El Dorado backing plates,
>exclusive
>>of installation labor??
>>
>>Also, I have not heard of carbon metallic in other than pads for disc
>>brakes. I've put over 40,000 miles on my carbon metallic in four years and
>>still have half the pad thickness left. They wear like iron.
>>
>>As to the heat issue, I can't tell any difference in their efficiency
>>whether cold or hot. That claim is probably more valid on racing
>>applications with continuous brake application. Supposedly the pad
>>coefficient of friction goes up as the material temperature rises.
>>
>> Paul Bartz
>>
>>From: Dave Lowry [mailto:dlowry]
>>Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:17 AM
>>Subject: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos
>>
>>After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking lot
>and
>>did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make sure
>>the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our rear
>>shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than the
>>other?
>>I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be ideal,
>>but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
>>disc/drum system.
>>I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective when
>>cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
>>netters?
>>Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock
>>calipers?
>>Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay
>>$60+/hr).
>>
>>
>Tom & Marg Warner
>Vernon Center NY
>1976 palmbeach
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach

 

[bartz paul]

Thomas:

You can, except there is a huge difference, Bobby Moore recently found =
out,
in braking ability by using the 80 mm caliper's vs. the Cad one's, on =
the
front rear wheels. I believe the 80 mm exert something like 1000 psi =
more
pressure on the rotor than 2 =BD" one's do. Bobby is using a motorized
emergency brake application. Uses a seat adjuster motor from a =
Sterling
(English Honda version).

If you want to have caliper emergency braking (parking really) vs. =
hydraulic
line lock, the Cad caliper has a lever on it that you connect the brake
cable to. You would use those on the rear rear wheels.

Pads need to fit the caliper utilized on the conversion.

The Cad rotors, both front and rear of that vintage are the same part
number, can be used on the rear wheels. However, Autozone's price for =
a new
one is only $36.94.

Paul

From: Thomas G. Warner [mailto:warner]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

I have the one about 76-78 cad backing plates, but do you use all of =
the
other cad hardware also, ie; calipers pads etc?

Thomas:

In an earlier post I detailed some of the parts. Let me know if you =
didn't
get it.

Paul

From: Thomas G. Warner [mailto:warner]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

Paul which Cad hardware can I use for the bogie brakes besides the =
backing
plates? Which years?

Dave:

Would you believe it if I told you that you could have six-wheel disc =
brakes
for less than $800.00 using the Cadillac El Dorado backing plates, =
exclusive
of installation labor??

Also, I have not heard of carbon metallic in other than pads for disc
brakes. I've put over 40,000 miles on my carbon metallic in four years =
and
still have half the pad thickness left. They wear like iron.

As to the heat issue, I can't tell any difference in their efficiency
whether cold or hot. That claim is probably more valid on racing
applications with continuous brake application. Supposedly the pad
coefficient of friction goes up as the material temperature rises.

Paul Bartz

From: Dave Lowry [mailto:dlowry]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:17 AM
Subject: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking =
lot and
did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make =
sure
the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our =
rear
shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than the
other?

I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be =
ideal,
but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
disc/drum system.

I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective =
when
cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
netters?

Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock
calipers?

Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay
$60+/hr).

 

[richard bachert]

Sure would like to know more about those Caddy disc brakes.
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>Dave:
>
>Would you believe it if I told you that you could have six-wheel disc brakes
>for less than $800.00 using the Cadillac El Dorado backing plates, exclusive
>of installation labor??
>
>Also, I have not heard of carbon metallic in other than pads for disc
>brakes. I've put over 40,000 miles on my carbon metallic in four years and
>still have half the pad thickness left. They wear like iron.
>
>As to the heat issue, I can't tell any difference in their efficiency
>whether cold or hot. That claim is probably more valid on racing
>applications with continuous brake application. Supposedly the pad
>coefficient of friction goes up as the material temperature rises.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: Dave Lowry [mailto:dlowry]
>Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:17 AM
>Subject: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos
>
>After experiencing reduced stopping power, we found an empty parking lot and
>did the old "back up and hit the brakes" routine 8 or 10 times to make sure
>the self adjusters had taken up all the slack they could. I guess our rear
>shoes are about due for replacement. Will one kind stop better than the
>other?
>I realize that a totally reengineered 6 wheel disc system might be ideal,
>but we haven't won the lottery yet so we just want to maximize the old
>disc/drum system.
>I've heard that the carbon metalic linings are a little less effective when
>cold, but much better as they get hot. What are the experiences of the
>netters?
>Also, are the oversized disc pads worthwhile when still using stock
>calipers?
>Please remember, I don't due the work, I just order it done (and pay
>$60+/hr).
>

 

[blank]

> You can, except there is a huge difference, Bobby Moore=20
> recently found out, in braking ability by using the 80 mm=20
> caliper's vs. the Cad one's, on the front rear wheels. I=20
> believe the 80 mm exert something like 1000 psi more
> pressure on the rotor than 2 =BD" one's do. =20

Paul,

What changes did Bobby make to use the 80mm calipers with the Caddy =
backing
plates? (If you say it was a "drop-in", I'm gonna kick myself and =
right
after that I'm going to AutoZone) I mentioned this to Skip at TSM =
when I
ordered my conversion. He said it sounded like a good idea, but they =
didn't
make the brackets for the 80mm(and left little doubt that they weren't
interested in making them), so I blindly accepted that the calipers =
wouldn't
fit. By my calc's, the 80mm calipers have 7.7sqin of piston area and =
the
50mm park-brake calipers have 3sqin of piston area, yielding a "bias" =
of
2.6:1 - probably a pretty good setup.

Patrick

 

[blank]

> Sure would like to know more about those Caddy disc brakes.
> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

Dick,

It's the same thing as the TSM conversion, except you get the parts from a
salvage yard and have the machine work done yourself. You can mix and match
- - Manny bought the backing plates, rotors and spacers from TSM and got his
calipers from a salvage yard. The machining required for the caddy
conversion is pretty extensive, so unless you have access to a machine shop
with cheap rates, buying rotors, spacers and backing plates from TSM might
be the way to go.

Patrick

 

[blank]

> I currently have a quality 10" swing, 24" bed metal cutting
> engine lathe. 1/2" drill press and full arc/gas
> welding/cutting and the usual hand and bench
> grinding/cutting capabilities here. Unless I need a
> shaper, a milling machine or other equipment for the
> conversion, I can do -- and have done -- much of that sort
> of stuff here over the years (and enjoy it).
> The more I look at it, the more I'm leaning toward putting
> the disc package together myself. It simply looks to be a
> situation where, with the proper rotors (which several
> posts indicate are same year Toronado and I want to confirm
> will match the GMC hubs) and calipers (which I'd have to
> buy anyway) it's a matter of getting the calipers correctly
> lined up with the rotors, supporting the caliper on a plate
> stout enough (min. 1/2" thick) to resist the forces
> encountered as it squeezes the rotor and avoiding
> interference between the calipers and inside wheel rim. Did
> I miss anything?

I'd either use Eldo backing plates or buy the TSM ones. No way you could
build those for the purchase price - not to mention a lot of R&D that's
covered by:

> it's a matter of getting the calipers correctly
> lined up with the rotors, supporting the caliper
> on a plate stout enough (min. 1/2" thick) to
> resist the forces encountered as it squeezes the
> rotor and avoiding interference between the calipers
> and inside wheel rim.

You'll need a good index table for your drill press as you'll need to drill
7 holes in the rotors(8 bolts in the GMC hub vs. 5 in the Toro/Eldo) and a
couple of those holes will bridge over into existing holes. Probably best
done on a good milling machine. You'll need to enlarge and chamfer the
center openings on both the Eldo brackets and rotors to fit the GMC hubs.
The TSM price for brackets, rotors and spacers - including the grade 8
hardware - is around $600 for all four wheels.

Paul Bartz faxed me all the details on this conversion a few months back.
I'll try to dig it up and post the details on my web site, but I don't have
any pic's to go with it.

Patrick

 

[richard bachert]

I currently have a quality 10" swing, 24" bed metal cutting engine lathe.
1/2" drill press and full arc/gas welding/cutting and the usual hand and
bench grinding/cutting capabilities here. Unless I need a shaper, a milling
machine or other equipment for the conversion, I can do -- and have done --
much of that sort of stuff here over the years (and enjoy it).
The more I look at it, the more I'm leaning toward putting the disc package
together myself. It simply looks to be a situation where, with the proper
rotors (which several posts indicate are same year Toronado and I want to
confirm will match the GMC hubs) and calipers (which I'd have to buy anyway)
it's a matter of getting the calipers correctly lined up with the rotors,
supporting the caliper on a plate stout enough (min. 1/2" thick) to resist
the forces encountered as it squeezes the rotor and avoiding interference
between the calipers and inside wheel rim. Did I miss anything?
Except for the required NEW grade 8 fasteners, the rest is double flared
hydraulic work.
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>
>> Sure would like to know more about those Caddy disc brakes.
>> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
>
>Dick,
>
>It's the same thing as the TSM conversion, except you get the parts from a
>salvage yard and have the machine work done yourself. You can mix and match
>- Manny bought the backing plates, rotors and spacers from TSM and got his
>calipers from a salvage yard. The machining required for the caddy
>conversion is pretty extensive, so unless you have access to a machine shop
>with cheap rates, buying rotors, spacers and backing plates from TSM might
>be the way to go.
>
>Patrick
>

 

[bartz paul]

Dick:

Rotors for use on the rear wheel disk brakes are same as El Dorado and not
Toronado. In addition they need to be drilled in three places.

Paul Bartz

From: Richard Bachert [mailto:bachert]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 2:23 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

It simply looks to be a situation where, with the proper rotors (which
several posts indicate are same year Toronado

 

[bartz paul]

Patrick:

You got it. Sorry.

Paul Bartz

From: Patrick.Flowers
[mailto:Patrick.Flowers]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

You can, except there is a huge difference, Bobby Moore recently found =
out,
in braking ability by using the 80 mm caliper's vs. the Cad one's, on =
the
front rear wheels. I believe the 80 mm exert something like 1000 psi =
more
pressure on the rotor than 2 =BD" one's do.

Paul,

What changes did Bobby make to use the 80mm calipers with the Caddy =
backing
plates? (If you say it was a "drop-in", I'm gonna kick myself and =
right
after that I'm going to AutoZone) I mentioned this to Skip at TSM =
when I
ordered my conversion. He said it sounded like a good idea, but they =
didn't
make the brackets for the 80mm(and left little doubt that they weren't
interested in making them), so I blindly accepted that the calipers =
wouldn't
fit. By my calc's, the 80mm calipers have 7.7sqin of piston area and =
the
50mm park-brake calipers have 3sqin of piston area, yielding a "bias" =
of
2.6:1 - probably a pretty good setup.

 

[bartz paul]

Patrick:

Unless you call approximately $150 for machining "pretty extensive", I would
disagree with that characterization.

Paul Bartz

From: Patrick.Flowers
[mailto:Patrick.Flowers]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 9:41 AM
Subject: RE: GMC: Brake shoes & pads, carbon metalic or asbestos

Sure would like to know more about those Caddy disc brakes.
Dick,
It's the same thing as the TSM conversion, except you get the parts from a
salvage yard and have the machine work done yourself. You can mix and match
- - Manny bought the backing plates, rotors and spacers from TSM and got his
calipers from a salvage yard. The machining required for the caddy
conversion is pretty extensive, so unless you have access to a machine shop
with cheap rates, buying rotors, spacers and backing plates from TSM might
be the way to go.

 

[hdavis]

PAtrick,

I think that Manny did this conversion. there's some pictures of his on my
web site at www.henry-davis.com/GMC

Henry

>
>> I currently have a quality 10" swing, 24" bed metal cutting
>> engine lathe. 1/2" drill press and full arc/gas
>> welding/cutting and the usual hand and bench
>> grinding/cutting capabilities here. Unless I need a
>> shaper, a milling machine or other equipment for the
>> conversion, I can do -- and have done -- much of that sort
>> of stuff here over the years (and enjoy it).
>> The more I look at it, the more I'm leaning toward putting
>> the disc package together myself. It simply looks to be a
>> situation where, with the proper rotors (which several
>> posts indicate are same year Toronado and I want to confirm
>> will match the GMC hubs) and calipers (which I'd have to
>> buy anyway) it's a matter of getting the calipers correctly
>> lined up with the rotors, supporting the caliper on a plate
>> stout enough (min. 1/2" thick) to resist the forces
>> encountered as it squeezes the rotor and avoiding
>> interference between the calipers and inside wheel rim. Did
>> I miss anything?
>
>I'd either use Eldo backing plates or buy the TSM ones. No way you could
>build those for the purchase price - not to mention a lot of R&D that's
>covered by:
>
> > it's a matter of getting the calipers correctly
> > lined up with the rotors, supporting the caliper
> > on a plate stout enough (min. 1/2" thick) to
> > resist the forces encountered as it squeezes the
> > rotor and avoiding interference between the calipers
> > and inside wheel rim.
>
>You'll need a good index table for your drill press as you'll need to drill
>7 holes in the rotors(8 bolts in the GMC hub vs. 5 in the Toro/Eldo) and a
>couple of those holes will bridge over into existing holes. Probably best
>done on a good milling machine. You'll need to enlarge and chamfer the
>center openings on both the Eldo brackets and rotors to fit the GMC hubs.
>The TSM price for brackets, rotors and spacers - including the grade 8
>hardware - is around $600 for all four wheels.
>
>Paul Bartz faxed me all the details on this conversion a few months back.
>I'll try to dig it up and post the details on my web site, but I don't have
>any pic's to go with it.
>
>Patrick
>
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (831) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com

 

[homebase1]

Dick
You wrote
The answer is 'yes' ! You forgot to take my order

MikeB
NS

> I currently have a quality 10" swing, 24" bed metal cutting engine lathe.
> 1/2" drill press and full arc/gas welding/cutting and the usual hand and
> bench grinding/cutting capabilities here. Unless I need a shaper, a milling
> machine or other equipment for the conversion, I can do -- and have done --
> much of that sort of stuff here over the years (and enjoy it).
> The more I look at it, the more I'm leaning toward putting the disc package
> together myself. It simply looks to be a situation where, with the proper
> rotors (which several posts indicate are same year Toronado and I want to
> confirm will match the GMC hubs) and calipers (which I'd have to buy anyway)
> it's a matter of getting the calipers correctly lined up with the rotors,
> supporting the caliper on a plate stout enough (min. 1/2" thick) to resist
> the forces encountered as it squeezes the rotor and avoiding interference
> between the calipers and inside wheel rim. Did I miss anything?
> Except for the required NEW grade 8 fasteners, the rest is double flared
> hydraulic work.
> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
>
>

> >
> >> Sure would like to know more about those Caddy disc brakes.
> >> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
> >
> >Dick,
> >
> >It's the same thing as the TSM conversion, except you get the parts from a
> >salvage yard and have the machine work done yourself. You can mix and match
> >- Manny bought the backing plates, rotors and spacers from TSM and got his
> >calipers from a salvage yard. The machining required for the caddy
> >conversion is pretty extensive, so unless you have access to a machine shop
> >with cheap rates, buying rotors, spacers and backing plates from TSM might
> >be the way to go.
> >
> >Patrick
> >
>

 

[thomas g. warner]

Everyone is talking about the TSM conversion but no one has listed the exact
parts to order including the part numbers. Lets make a deal. If you are
advising or describing a modification please please list the part numbers of
the exact material you are using.

Now has anyone got the part numbers for the TSM conversion?

>
>> I currently have a quality 10" swing, 24" bed metal cutting
>> engine lathe. 1/2" drill press and full arc/gas
>> welding/cutting and the usual hand and bench
>> grinding/cutting capabilities here. Unless I need a
>> shaper, a milling machine or other equipment for the
>> conversion, I can do -- and have done -- much of that sort
>> of stuff here over the years (and enjoy it).
>> The more I look at it, the more I'm leaning toward putting
>> the disc package together myself. It simply looks to be a
>> situation where, with the proper rotors (which several
>> posts indicate are same year Toronado and I want to confirm
>> will match the GMC hubs) and calipers (which I'd have to
>> buy anyway) it's a matter of getting the calipers correctly
>> lined up with the rotors, supporting the caliper on a plate
>> stout enough (min. 1/2" thick) to resist the forces
>> encountered as it squeezes the rotor and avoiding
>> interference between the calipers and inside wheel rim. Did
>> I miss anything?
>
>I'd either use Eldo backing plates or buy the TSM ones. No way you could
>build those for the purchase price - not to mention a lot of R&D that's
>covered by:
>
> > it's a matter of getting the calipers correctly
> > lined up with the rotors, supporting the caliper
> > on a plate stout enough (min. 1/2" thick) to
> > resist the forces encountered as it squeezes the
> > rotor and avoiding interference between the calipers
> > and inside wheel rim.
>
>You'll need a good index table for your drill press as you'll need to drill
>7 holes in the rotors(8 bolts in the GMC hub vs. 5 in the Toro/Eldo) and a
>couple of those holes will bridge over into existing holes. Probably best
>done on a good milling machine. You'll need to enlarge and chamfer the
>center openings on both the Eldo brackets and rotors to fit the GMC hubs.
>The TSM price for brackets, rotors and spacers - including the grade 8
>hardware - is around $600 for all four wheels.
>
>Paul Bartz faxed me all the details on this conversion a few months back.
>I'll try to dig it up and post the details on my web site, but I don't have
>any pic's to go with it.
>
>Patrick
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach