Bogie straightening

H

hal stclair

New member
Mar 26, 2013
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It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box but that
method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would be
necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
thanks, Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,

Rio Rancho, NM
 
> It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box but
> that method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would be
> necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
> thanks, Hal

Hal,

I think it may matter which arm system you have. Mine are the Kanomata/Pryor version.

I just let the bar down at one end. I think it was the bogie bracket end and set up the Porta-Power. It was simpler and faster then I expected. It
did take three or four pump and release cycles to hit the mark.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Given the relative sizes of the bogie arm and reaction arm, you could probably bend the bogie the necessary amount without an great concern, but if
you take Matt C's route you'd be safe anyhow. The reaction bars have enough side play to let the bogie be way out of alignment without binding.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
Hal,

I suppose you're concerned, as I would be, about using the back of the
reaction arm's torque box as a bearing point for the forcing tool between
it and the frame. As a not-too-expensive alternative, you might consider
the Alex Sirum method: a long pipe (2"-3" OD) welded to an old steel
wheel. With the wheel mounted and the suspension arm supported, he (with
help) is reportedly able to move the bogie arm to any desired position.
I've never even seen it in person but it sounds reasonable.

Ken H.

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:43 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist <

> It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've
> looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box
> but that
> method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any
> experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would be
> necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
> thanks, Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>
> Rio Rancho, NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I have Manny's system and as Ken suggests, I hesitate to place the load on the torque box. The method you suggest Ken, would put an awful load on the
bearings if I understand what you are saying. But then again, I guess the bearings are subjected to some pretty nasty loads just making sharp turns.
I'll have to re-evaluate my options when I get into it I guess. Just returned from almost 3 months in the coach Saturday PM so have lots of catching
up to do on the home front.
Thanks, Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,

Rio Rancho, NM
 
Hal the bogie pusher I have pushes on the arm and not the box.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p66047-bogie-pusher.html

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p66048-bogie-pusher-in-use.html

> I have Manny's system and as Ken suggests, I hesitate to place the load on the torque box. The method you suggest Ken, would put an awful load on
> the bearings if I understand what you are saying. But then again, I guess the bearings are subjected to some pretty nasty loads just making sharp
> turns. I'll have to re-evaluate my options when I get into it I guess. Just returned from almost 3 months in the coach Saturday PM so have lots of
> catching up to do on the home front.
> Thanks, Hal

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Chuck,
I tried that pusher and wasn't able to tighten it enough to get the bogie to bend and stay. Too old and decrepit I think. I ended up renting a
hydraulic pusher kit and fixed a laser to the wheel with my wooden version of the Work alignment kit and a target at the front ride height slot
location. Put a line on the target where the frame-to-laser distances were equal and went a little at at time. With the laser setup you can move it a
little at a time and see how much overstretch you need. Agree that pushing at the end of the bogie arm makes the most sense.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Bill, there is a method to straightening or bending bogie arms. It takes a
minimum force of 10,000 pounds to bend the ones I have done.
Jim Hupy

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 9:27 AM Bill Van Vlack via Gmclist <

> Chuck,
> I tried that pusher and wasn't able to tighten it enough to get the bogie
> to bend and stay. Too old and decrepit I think. I ended up renting a
> hydraulic pusher kit and fixed a laser to the wheel with my wooden version
> of the Work alignment kit and a target at the front ride height slot
> location. Put a line on the target where the frame-to-laser distances were
> equal and went a little at at time. With the laser setup you can move it a
> little at a time and see how much overstretch you need. Agree that pushing
> at the end of the bogie arm makes the most sense.
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Is that a 21-foot long pipe?

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:21 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> Hal,
>
> I suppose you're concerned, as I would be, about using the back of the
> reaction arm's torque box as a bearing point for the forcing tool between
> it and the frame. As a not-too-expensive alternative, you might consider
> the Alex Sirum method: a long pipe (2"-3" OD) welded to an old steel
> wheel. With the wheel mounted and the suspension arm supported, he (with
> help) is reportedly able to move the bogie arm to any desired position.
> I've never even seen it in person but it sounds reasonable.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:43 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist <

>
> > It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've
> > looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box
> > but that
> > method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any
> > experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would
> be
> > necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
> > thanks, Hal
> > --
> > 1977 Royale 101348,
> >
> > 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
> >
> > 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
> >
> > 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
> >
> > Rio Rancho, NM
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
I don’t remember for sure but I think it was 10 foot.

Emery Stora

>
> Is that a 21-foot long pipe?
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:21 AM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

>
>> Hal,
>>
>> I suppose you're concerned, as I would be, about using the back of the
>> reaction arm's torque box as a bearing point for the forcing tool between
>> it and the frame. As a not-too-expensive alternative, you might consider
>> the Alex Sirum method: a long pipe (2"-3" OD) welded to an old steel
>> wheel. With the wheel mounted and the suspension arm supported, he (with
>> help) is reportedly able to move the bogie arm to any desired position.
>> I've never even seen it in person but it sounds reasonable.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:43 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist <

>>
>>> It looks like I've got a left center bogie a bit out of shape. I've
>>> looked at the tool for bending the arm by pushing on the frame/bogie box
>>> but that
>>> method has been used on non reaction arm coaches. Anyone have any
>>> experience doing a reaction arm equipped rig? I'd hate to think it would
>> be
>>> necessary to R&R everything each time I did a bend. Any thoughts?
>>> thanks, Hal
>>> --
>>> 1977 Royale 101348,
>>>
>>> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>>>
>>> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>>>
>>> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>>>
>>> Rio Rancho, NM
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
I thought that I had pictures of the device, but alas no. It was a 2” sched 40 pipe 10 foot long welded to a old rim center section so that it could bolt up to the axle hub that needed to be tweaked. You can contact Jim Bounds at The CO-OP at 407 857-5777 or email coopmotorworks He might sill have the pictures archived.

J. R. Wright
GMC Great Laker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 Buskirk; Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Location in Tucson
 
I believe that it was Alex Sirum GMC that came up with this several years ago.
You might check with Jeff Sirum.

Emery Stora

>
> I thought that I had pictures of the device, but alas no. It was a 2” sched 40 pipe 10 foot long welded to a old rim center section so that it could bolt up to the axle hub that needed to be tweaked. You can contact Jim Bounds at The CO-OP at 407 857-5777 or email coopmotorworks He might sill have the pictures archived.
>
> J. R. Wright
> GMC Great Laker
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCMI
> 78 Buskirk; Stretch
> 75 Avion
> Michigan
> On Location in Tucson
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Emery,
Sirum has tweaked the system he uses to straighten the bogies. He now uses a 4' by 4" diameter steel pipe welded to the steel rim, with some
additional steel gusseting where it attaches to the rim. To straighten the bogey he hooks a come along to the end of the pipe and the other end hooks
underneath to the chassis at a crossmember. Depending on where the attachment point at the chassis is located, forward or aft, the bogey can be bent
either inwards or outwards. This allows one person to straighten the bogey using mechanical advantage instead of body weight and muscular strength.
It's also more precise an application of force.

As a point of discussion, I have never heard mention of concern for bogey bearings from an impact, only concern about load on the bearings when
straightening the bogies. I'm of the opinion that the initial impact that bent the bogey in the first place, in an uncontrolled fashion, would put
more load on the bearings then straightening the bogey in a controlled fashion.

If there's no mention of inspecting bearings when straightening a bogey, at least in my experience and readings, is this really such a concern?

RV

PS Chuck, that's a really nice little bogey straightener. 😉
--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777
 
Jim H,
I was able to successfully straighten my bogie arm using the method I described, i.e., a Porta-power against the frame at the end of the arm. Aside
from the wheel/lever arm method and the tool posted earlier, that was the only method I found.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Hey, that's an even better idea, Chuck, when only toe needs adjustment.
I'd thought about something like that, but didn't know it was really
feasible.

Ken H.

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 12:07 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

> Hal the bogie pusher I have pushes on the arm and not the box.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p66047-bogie-pusher.html
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p66048-bogie-pusher-in-use.html
>
>
>
>
>

> > I have Manny's system and as Ken suggests, I hesitate to place the load
> on the torque box. The method you suggest Ken, would put an awful load on
> > the bearings if I understand what you are saying. But then again, I
> guess the bearings are subjected to some pretty nasty loads just making
> sharp
> > turns. I'll have to re-evaluate my options when I get into it I guess.
> Just returned from almost 3 months in the coach Saturday PM so have lots of
> > catching up to do on the home front.
> > Thanks, Hal
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Thanks for the tip Richard. I built one using an old steel rim with a 54" 2x4 tube welded perpendicular to the rim. It seems to work almost too well
although it's a bit of a chore to hit the pull just right.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,

Rio Rancho, NM
 
I use a porta-power and a short ram cylinder with a shop made fixture that
centers up on the back of the bogie spindle. I set up a dial indicator on a
heavy jack stand to measure the amount of travel. Very precise. No
overbending.
Dick Paterson has a similar fixture that uses a 1" diameter threaded
fastener to provide the force. I used his when we were in Canada and a
coach needed some straightening. It works well. Many ways available to
skin that cat.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019, 8:44 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist <

> Thanks for the tip Richard. I built one using an old steel rim with a 54"
> 2x4 tube welded perpendicular to the rim. It seems to work almost too well
> although it's a bit of a chore to hit the pull just right.
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>
> Rio Rancho, NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
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