black tank question

kstockwell

kstockwell

Member
May 24, 2016
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18
I got a dowel, put 1/2" markers on it and have been putting it into the black tank via toilet (water off) to figure out how much is in there and when
I need to dump.

Anyone know for a Kingsley what the top would be? I'm at 3" now. This is the only gauge that doesn't work. When I move the switch, it moves from E
to less than E (i did swap modules to make sure the readout wasn't the issue). I guess my LP gauge might not be right either, at E on the tank, it
read 1/2 full. I had 10 gallons put in now both the LP tank and gauge says F

kelly

--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
> I got a dowel, put 1/2" markers on it and have been putting it into the black tank via toilet (water off) to figure out how much is in there and
> when I need to dump.
>
> Anyone know for a Kingsley what the top would be? I'm at 3" now. This is the only gauge that doesn't work. When I move the switch, it moves
> from E to less than E (i did swap modules to make sure the readout wasn't the issue). I guess my LP gauge might not be right either, at E on the
> tank, it read 1/2 full. I had 10 gallons put in now both the LP tank and gauge says F
>
> kelly

Kelly,

Those gauges are not completely useless, just very nearly. If you black tank sender is original and still operational, then it really should be in a
museum.

Your current 3" is a little less than HALF.

If the black tank pointer moves to less than E, then there is either a short to ground (still should not be much less than E) or the actual instrument
is bad. Unfortunately the diagnostic from here is kind of technical and involved, but if you are up to it, some of us here can walk you through it.

Do you have a pretty decent VOM handy? You would need it to try to identify the actual failure.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
i have a cheap multimeter. Can I run a new ground and see if it works?

I'm actually OK with the gauge not working. I feel like I did this test once with the stick and the first 3" was slow going then it shot up; these
tanks have caved in tops, right?

--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
> i have a cheap multimeter. Can I run a new ground and see if it works?
>
> I'm actually OK with the gauge not working. I feel like I did this test once with the stick and the first 3" was slow going then it shot up;
> these tanks have caved in tops, right?

Kelly,

I do not believe that the problem you are seeing is the result of a bad ground. (I can tell you that this is only about the second time I have said
there - Ever.)
I cannot tell you about your black tank, yours is much newer and likely to be different than mine. Mine is as close to flat on top as an old plastic
tank could hope to be. The entire tank is only 6-3/4 inches tall (or there abouts - iirc)

There is a test you could try....
You will have to disconnect the monitor panel and look into the connector.
There should be 6 connections, a space and two more connections.
counting from the outside end of the six connections (one diagram has the last of the six omitted) use your meter to measure resistance between pins 4
and 5.
That should be between 3 and 90 ohms. If the tank is half full, it should be close to 45 ohms.
If that works out, the tank sender is good. That means that the instrument is bad.

*** Don't bother doing this now ****
While you have that panel out, look at the back. The instruments are connected by nuts on copper studs. Just for giggles, get out a decent tool,
like a 1/4 drive socket, and looses each just a little and tighten it back up. If the connection has gotten bad, this could restore it.

Actually, now that I wrote all that, take the chance if you dare, but it is not likely to fix anything. When the connection to the sender is lost,
the pointer will go to full. So, that has little chance to be the problem.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Hey, what do i have to lose? I'll give that a shot sometime. Thank you!
kelly

> > i have a cheap multimeter. Can I run a new ground and see if it works?
> >
> > I'm actually OK with the gauge not working. I feel like I did this test once with the stick and the first 3" was slow going then it shot up;
> > these tanks have caved in tops, right?
>
> Kelly,
>
> I do not believe that the problem you are seeing is the result of a bad ground. (I can tell you that this is only about the second time I have
> said there - Ever.)
> I cannot tell you about your black tank, yours is much newer and likely to be different than mine. Mine is as close to flat on top as an old
> plastic tank could hope to be. The entire tank is only 6-3/4 inches tall (or there abouts - iirc)
>
> There is a test you could try....
> You will have to disconnect the monitor panel and look into the connector.
> There should be 6 connections, a space and two more connections.
> counting from the outside end of the six connections (one diagram has the last of the six omitted) use your meter to measure resistance between
> pins 4 and 5.
> That should be between 3 and 90 ohms. If the tank is half full, it should be close to 45 ohms.
> If that works out, the tank sender is good. That means that the instrument is bad.
>
> *** Don't bother doing this now ****
> While you have that panel out, look at the back. The instruments are connected by nuts on copper studs. Just for giggles, get out a decent tool,
> like a 1/4 drive socket, and looses each just a little and tighten it back up. If the connection has gotten bad, this could restore it.
>
> Actually, now that I wrote all that, take the chance if you dare, but it is not likely to fix anything. When the connection to the sender is
> lost, the pointer will go to full. So, that has little chance to be the problem.
>
> Matt

--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
Matt, how difficult is it to replace a black tank? I found mine was damaged
to the drivers side of the sender. Looks like it was patched twice, but has
a fun smelly drip.

I may drain and try to repair vs a full swap out.

> > i have a cheap multimeter. Can I run a new ground and see if it works?
> >
> > I'm actually OK with the gauge not working. I feel like I did this test
> once with the stick and the first 3" was slow going then it shot up;
> > these tanks have caved in tops, right?
>
> Kelly,
>
> I do not believe that the problem you are seeing is the result of a bad
> ground. (I can tell you that this is only about the second time I have said
> there - Ever.)
> I cannot tell you about your black tank, yours is much newer and likely to
> be different than mine. Mine is as close to flat on top as an old plastic
> tank could hope to be. The entire tank is only 6-3/4 inches tall (or
> there abouts - iirc)
>
> There is a test you could try....
> You will have to disconnect the monitor panel and look into the
> connector.
> There should be 6 connections, a space and two more connections.
> counting from the outside end of the six connections (one diagram has the
> last of the six omitted) use your meter to measure resistance between pins 4
> and 5.
> That should be between 3 and 90 ohms. If the tank is half full, it should
> be close to 45 ohms.
> If that works out, the tank sender is good. That means that the
> instrument is bad.
>
> *** Don't bother doing this now ****
> While you have that panel out, look at the back. The instruments are
> connected by nuts on copper studs. Just for giggles, get out a decent tool,
> like a 1/4 drive socket, and looses each just a little and tighten it back
> up. If the connection has gotten bad, this could restore it.
>
> Actually, now that I wrote all that, take the chance if you dare, but it
> is not likely to fix anything. When the connection to the sender is lost,
> the pointer will go to full. So, that has little chance to be the
> problem.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> Matt, how difficult is it to replace a black tank? I found mine was damaged
> to the drivers side of the sender. Looks like it was patched twice, but has
> a fun smelly drip.
>
> I may drain and try to repair vs a full swap out.

Will,

It is only a monumental PITA to get the tank down, not rocket surgery. I will be glad to talk to you about it face to face. The hardest part is
undoing all the plumbing connections both from on top and the dump.

There is a new West System epoxy that can patch a polypropylene tank, but it will have to be dry and clean. We can talk about that too. It was
demonstrated at a recent international and while the material is not cheap, there is a shop in Detroit that can weld it (100$ min) and the next choice
is a new tank. You can buy a lot of G-Flex for that much.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Gflex. Exactly!

> > Matt, how difficult is it to replace a black tank? I found mine was
> damaged
> > to the drivers side of the sender. Looks like it was patched twice, but
> has
> > a fun smelly drip.
> >
> > I may drain and try to repair vs a full swap out.
>
> Will,
>
> It is only a monumental PITA to get the tank down, not rocket surgery. I
> will be glad to talk to you about it face to face. The hardest part is
> undoing all the plumbing connections both from on top and the dump.
>
> There is a new West System epoxy that can patch a polypropylene tank, but
> it will have to be dry and clean. We can talk about that too. It was
> demonstrated at a recent international and while the material is not
> cheap, there is a shop in Detroit that can weld it (100$ min) and the next
> choice
> is a new tank. You can buy a lot of G-Flex for that much.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Yeah, but during the 20 years I've had "new" tanks, I've had NO leaks. :-)

Ken H.

> > Matt, how difficult is it to replace a black tank? I found mine was
> damaged
> > to the drivers side of the sender. Looks like it was patched twice, but
> has
> > a fun smelly drip.
> >
> > I may drain and try to repair vs a full swap out.
>
> Will,
>
> It is only a monumental PITA to get the tank down, not rocket surgery. I
> will be glad to talk to you about it face to face. The hardest part is
> undoing all the plumbing connections both from on top and the dump.
>
> There is a new West System epoxy that can patch a polypropylene tank, but
> it will have to be dry and clean. We can talk about that too. It was
> demonstrated at a recent international and while the material is not
> cheap, there is a shop in Detroit that can weld it (100$ min) and the next
> choice
> is a new tank. You can buy a lot of G-Flex for that much.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> I have no desire to do this =)
>
> Flex seal to the rescue

Will,

Not Flexseal.....

West System G-Flex and a small piece of glass cloth after a flame treat and other preparations.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
After reading this thread - I’m really glad I’ve been able to keep my gauges functioning. I don’t really want a poo dipstick...

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

>
> I have no desire to do this =)
>
> Flex seal to the rescue
 
It's a conversation piece :)

> After reading this thread - I'm really glad I've been able to keep my gauges functioning. I don't really want a poo dipstick...
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>

> >
> > I have no desire to do this =)
> >
> > Flex seal to the rescue
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
I have 5 wires going to the sending unit.
White yellow on top, empty soace, black red, 2 empty spaces, purple

I get the same thing switching fresh water with holding tank.

> > i have a cheap multimeter. Can I run a new ground and see if it works?
> >
> > I'm actually OK with the gauge not working. I feel like I did this test once with the stick and the first 3" was slow going then it shot up;
> > these tanks have caved in tops, right?
>
> Kelly,
>
> I do not believe that the problem you are seeing is the result of a bad ground. (I can tell you that this is only about the second time I have
> said there - Ever.)
> I cannot tell you about your black tank, yours is much newer and likely to be different than mine. Mine is as close to flat on top as an old
> plastic tank could hope to be. The entire tank is only 6-3/4 inches tall (or there abouts - iirc)
>
> There is a test you could try....
> You will have to disconnect the monitor panel and look into the connector.
> There should be 6 connections, a space and two more connections.
> counting from the outside end of the six connections (one diagram has the last of the six omitted) use your meter to measure resistance between
> pins 4 and 5.
> That should be between 3 and 90 ohms. If the tank is half full, it should be close to 45 ohms.
> If that works out, the tank sender is good. That means that the instrument is bad.
>
> *** Don't bother doing this now ****
> While you have that panel out, look at the back. The instruments are connected by nuts on copper studs. Just for giggles, get out a decent tool,
> like a 1/4 drive socket, and looses each just a little and tighten it back up. If the connection has gotten bad, this could restore it.
>
> Actually, now that I wrote all that, take the chance if you dare, but it is not likely to fix anything. When the connection to the sender is
> lost, the pointer will go to full. So, that has little chance to be the problem.
>
> Matt

--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
4.4 ohms between middle and bottom connection goes to 0 when the gauge is clicked on
--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
> I have 5 wires going to the sending unit.
> White yellow on top, empty soace, black red, 2 empty spaces, purple
>
> I get the same thing switching fresh water with holding tank.
>
> I posted a video and pics to the facebook site because it's easy

Kelly,

I am a little unsure of what you are saying.

I can't find anything posted by Kelly Stockwell on Vintage GMC Motorhome or GMC Motorhome.
Those are the only ones I read for reasons I will not discuss here or ever.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> Shoot. I didn't know. I posted in classic. There are too many groups
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/classicgmcmotorhomes/permalink/974669075990963/

Kelly,

Now that you have gone that far, plug that instrument in were the LP is.

I had one that I thought was gone, and it turned out that just the pointer had slipped. So, I figured out where it should have been, pulled it loose
(gently) and put it there. It is still there years later.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
OK Matt, how will it be different from the fresh water tank results? Because it's full?
--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
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