Bearings

good info...In past years I considered going to 1 ton....as I started replacing front end components .....then changed my mind and carried on with something else..been trough the back end ...new bearings ...measurements for bends...all good..Brian 77 ele 455

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Bob Dunahugh
Sent: January 8, 2018 10:05 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bearings

Jim K at Applied, and Dave Lenzi to me are the best choices. I put a 1 ton unit under a friends 78 GMC. Nice unit. But I'll never install one again. We're thinking of pulling that 1 ton back out. It doesn't have the proper geometry. The big talk with the 1 ton is that it has a lifetime bearing that can't be greased because it's a sealed unit. It's a throw away unit at whatever mileage it fails at. Seen many in GM trucks that didn't make it very long. Then you go buy an all new one again. A rebuilt original with the grease fitting should more the likely never fail. Just get out the grease gun every 50,000miles. Put $2 worth of grease in. Done. But. Front components are only half the story. The back is another subject that you need to know about. Bob Dunahugh
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Yes the zerk fitting hole can be drilled in place but the axle and bearing has to be out. Jim Kanomata has a jig available that works great. You just need a 6” long 1/8” drill bit. You also have to cut grooves in the bearing spacer with a Dremel tool.
Then tap threads into the outside hole and thread in a grease fitting.

The only problem with this is that you must first determine whether there us wear on the hub or inside if the knuckle.
You can do this with calipers but an expert like Dave Lenzi and others will do it properly which is why the recommendation to ship them off for rebuilding.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
>
> reasonable suggestion...thanks...been told before....Brian
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of jhb1
> Sent: January 8, 2018 6:42 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bearings
>
> Jack the coach up and pull the knuckles put them in a crate drive to the coming west ups place in the UPSand
> ship them to JimB or JImK and it will probably cost you less than driving to the class West I lace
>
> HTH
> --
> John H. Bell
> 77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
> Montreal Qc.
>
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yea, Thinking you are right emery and others...guess I will have to ship the knuckles..it is an important thing and expensive if they go bad on the roas...Brian 77 ele 455
 
> yea, Thinking you are right emery and others...guess I will have to ship the knuckles..it is an important thing and expensive if they go bad on
> the roas...Brian 77 ele 455

Brian,

I have done a number of technical improvements on the coach, and I am not sure if the Lenzi Knuckles or the Kamomata/Pryor brake arms were the best,
both ever well worth doing.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Matt,

The sentence structure of your email below has confused me.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Matt Colie
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:17 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bearings

Brian,

I have done a number of technical improvements on the coach, and I am not sure if the Lenzi Knuckles or the Kamomata/Pryor brake
arms were the best, both ever well worth doing.

Matt
--
 
Lots of opinions on this one. I had the one ton in the 78 Royale and a tight stock front end in the 77 Clasco. Both were one finger wonders to drive. If the one ton geometry was “not proper” it sure never showed up from the drivers seat. The biggest advantage to the one ton from my POV is the much larger and beefier rotors which, when properly set up, provide confidence inspiring stopping. Never had a bearing failure with the one ton but did with the stock front end. No where Nevada is not a nice place to be when a stock front bearing fails. For giggles I asked the only auto parts place for what seemed like a million miles (who did not have a stock bearing set obviously) if they had the bearing for the one ton. ‘How many do you need” was the response.

Jerry

Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
http://jerrywork.com
=======
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bearings

Jim K at Applied, and Dave Lenzi to me are the best choices. I put a 1 ton unit under a friends 78 GMC. Nice unit. But I'll never install one again. We're thinking of pulling that 1 ton back out. It doesn't have the proper geometry. The big talk with the 1 ton is that it has a lifetime bearing that can't be greased because it's a sealed unit. It's a throw away unit at whatever mileage it fails at. Seen many in GM trucks that didn't make it very long. Then you go buy an all new one again. A rebuilt original with the grease fitting should more the likely never fail. Just get out the grease gun every 50,000miles. Put $2 worth of grease in. Done. But. Front components are only half the story. The back is another subject that you need to know about. Bob Dunahugh
========
 
Rob, Since we do not use or even display email addresses on the forum I am confused as to what you are referring to.

Is it something that the email reflector / forwarder has added to the posting?

I'm not being a smart ass, I'm just trying to figure out what you are referring to.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Brian,
I know we have talked before. My daughter and her husband live in Boissevain.
I was unable to connect with you last summer due to time restraints.
If you decide to remove the knuckle assemblies, they can be shipped thru a broker in Dunseith, ND just over the border.
My daughter uses them all the time for her package deliveries.
If you are interested I can get you that information.
Gary

Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
1977 GMC Eleganza ll
GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
GMCShades
www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/

>
> Thanks..hope Bob will read this...and possibly contact me...sperline1 if he know of any body in the Minneapolis region who does work on the gmc coach...Brian
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Mike Kelley
> Sent: January 7, 2018 6:06 PM
> To: gmclist
> Cc: GMC Bob & Linda Dunahugh
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bearings
>
> Brian W.:
> Send an e mail to attn of Bob Dunahugh in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
> He is very knowledgeable re GMC's and has friends and family in the twin cities area of Minn. He could possibly tell you who could help.
> Mike/The Corvair a holic
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

>>
>> No I do not know of those 2 guys...how would I contact them?...where are they?...who in or around twin cities...dave L. could not think of anyone ther e when I talked to him bout 1.5 year ago....Brian 77 ele winnipeg
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gmclist on behalf of Billy Massey
>> Sent: January 7, 2018 5:11 PM
>> To: gmclist
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bearings
>>
>> Have you checked with Tom Struthers and or Harold Kihn? Otherwise, nearest
>> agglomeration of GMCers in the know would be around the twin cities.
>>

>>>
>>> You are not too far from Cinnabar. $$$ but they do know GMC's.
>>> Jim Hupy
>>>

>>>>
>>>> been through this but thanks for the suggestions...new BFG radial 16 inch
>>>> with new alcoas varied psi...no change...new hub extensions on and
>>>> off...no change....new relay and pitmann and alignment and other pivot
>>>> point arm (forget name)...no change and steering linkage and steering cv
>>>> new lube and tolerences checked and taken off and tried and tried
>>> different
>>>> positions on that blue telescoping shaft and everything is tight and no
>>>> change...steering box maybe next but would like to do the front wheell
>>>> bearings anyway..... by driving it somewhere......where???..Brian 77 ele
>>> 455
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Gmclist on behalf of James Hupy
>>> <
>>>> jamesh1296>
>>>> Sent: January 7, 2018 4:27 PM
>>>> To: gmclist
>>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bearings
>>>>
>>>> How about tires? Are you running all steel belts, or steel belt treads
>>> with
>>>> rag sidewalls? Inflation pressures?
>>>> Jim Hupy
>>>>

>>>>
>>>> replaced the rear bearings and did all measurements on the bogies
>>> ....solid
>>>> tight and nothing bent...Brian 77 ele 455
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Gmclist on behalf of James Hupy
>>> <
>>>> jamesh1296>
>>>> Sent: January 7, 2018 3:59 PM
>>>> To: gmclist
>>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] bearings
>>>>
>>>> Brian, remember this point. "When you can't figure out why you coach
>>> won't
>>>> steer, look to the rear end. The back end CAN and DOES steer the coach."
>>>> Particularly the forward bogies.
>>>> Jim Hupy
>>>> Salem, Or
>>>> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>>>>

>>>>>
>>>>> I have not used my 77 gmc elegansa mostly because the steering is so
>>>>> bad...I have replaced most components ordered from Dave L.....might
>>>> replace
>>>>> the steering box next...I have discussed steering issues with the
>>> gmcnet
>>>> in
>>>>> the past. I have new front bearings and seals from Jim K. I bought
>>> them
>>>> a
>>>>> few years ago but decided not to install them as I know I am not
>>>>> qualified...So my question...Me and the gmc are situated near Winnipeg
>>>>> Manitoba Canada...grand forks Noth Dakota 125mi. or so south...Where is
>>>> the
>>>>> closest place I could drive this coach to have someone qualified do
>>> front
>>>>> wheel bearings etc with grease fittings?..
>>>>>
>>>>> brian 77 ele 455
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> Y**SNIP **
>
> The only problem with this is that you must first determine whether there us wear on the hub or inside if the knuckle.
>
> You can do this with calipers but an expert like Dave Lenzi and others will do it properly which is why the recommendation to ship them off for
> rebuilding.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO

That is exactly why I sent mine to Dave Lenzi. I did not want to accumulate the tools required, and try to do it correctly the first time try while
also trying to learn a new skill that I hope never to need again.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Bob, you have to be pretty sensitive to feel the change in camber during
jounce resulting from the slightly taller knuckle. I seriously doubt many
could feel it—I used to race cars and everything I feel is an improvement.

And I’m trying to think what damage it does. A bit more negative camber on
the outer wheel during body roll is actually a good thing, it seems to me.
It will reduce roll understeer slightly.

When I did my front bearings, I replaced the bearing on one side and had to
replace the knuckle on the other side. After removing the halfshaft and
caliber, the hub fell in my lap. The bearing had spun and the race was
loose in the groove it had worn. I had no idea there was a fault, and the
coach didn’t drive any differently after replacing the knuckle. Those
bearings had been serviced only 25k miles previously, by the PO.

One thing I can feel with distinction—better front brakes. And my old
brakes were fine, with good calipers, hoses, pads, and rotors. That extra
diameter makes a real difference.

The adjustment of the stock bearing depends on having the correct spacer,
and the prescribed spacer being correct depends on the holes in the knuckle
being perfect. That means that replacing a bearing just about necessitates
replacing the knuckle for those who don’t have the skills and tools to
measure not only the diameter but also the roundness of the hole. I have T
gauges and good micrometers and I fiddled with it for a hour to be sure.
Ken Thoma used a special three-point hole micrometer and it took him about
five seconds. But a loose bearing will spin and a tight bearing will
destroy itself.

I did not drill my knuckles. Dave didn’t provide the one I bought from him
with a zerk, and I didn’t have a jig.

Greasing the bearing still requires loosening the drive axle and backing it
out so you can see grease emerging past the face seal.

All freshly rebuilt stuff from Dave is great, but not cheap. And Dave is
not exactly sitting around wondering how he’ll fill his time.

And for those of us with ‘73 coaches, there is also the issue of
unreinforced lower control arms that can fatigue.

The one-ton kit doesn’t provide a better bearing, but it does provide a
more serviceable bearing. And a failing bearing won’t take the knuckle with
it, requiring that both be replaced. Replacing the bearing doesn’t require
popping ball joints, and it doesn’t require special tools. The bearing is
also more available.

For a front end that’s tip-top but for bearings, sending the knuckles to
Dave is a good approach. But if one needs to reinforce the lower control
arms, and replace the bushings, the one-ton kit will be cheaper. And the
bonus is 12” brakes on the front, in return for a geometry imperfection
that nearly everyone does not notice.

By the way, I have one-finger steering on my coach with
loose-as-wobbly-shopping-cart caster-wheels on the back. The big difference
for me was new bushings on the front, new gear box, and a better alignment.

Rick “who needs to sell his Darren Paget front bearing tool” Denney

> Jim K at Applied, and Dave Lenzi to me are the best choices. I put a 1 ton
> unit under a friends 78 GMC. Nice unit. But I'll never install one again.
> We're thinking of pulling that 1 ton back out. It doesn't have the proper
> geometry. The big talk with the 1 ton is that it has a lifetime bearing
> that can't be greased because it's a sealed unit. It's a throw away unit
> at whatever mileage it fails at. Seen many in GM trucks that didn't make
> it very long. Then you go buy an all new one again. A rebuilt original with
> the grease fitting should more the likely never fail. Just get out the
> grease gun every 50,000miles. Put $2 worth of grease in. Done. But. Front
> components are only half the story. The back is another subject that you
> need to know about. Bob Dunahugh
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Brian:

Your statement "taken off and tried and tried different positions on that blue telescoping shaft and everything is tight and no change" makes me
question whether you aligned the steering column and box correctly. Someone, Rob maybe, wrote up the detailed way to do it. Do that step by step if
you haven't.

Hal Kading 78 Buskirk Stretch Las Cruces NM
 
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