Be an American

[thomas g. warner]

JR in the case of the wheel puller, it was basically a GM design and
everyone else copied some aspect of it and made it better. No one has a
patent on copying, at least in my opinion. I have a problem with an
individual producing a puller for $500+ that everyone needs but can't afford
at that price, particularly when it leads to dangerous maintenance on the
coach. I don't have any guilt feelings in producing a puller at cost, that
50 others need.

There will always be one or two individuals that want to throw a wrench into
your good intentions. Don't let this minority influence your future
involvement. Its part of life.

When 35+ people bought the stainless steel brakelines that I set up no one
complained about it? That cut someone out of a lot of money.Someone must
sell them retail somewhere.

The bottom line. We are here to support each other with technical advice,
suggestions in enjoying our coaches, travelling suggestions, enjoying the
differences in personalities, support (black list) and occasionally helping
each other to bulk buy something that is needed but is to high in price. I
don't think that is on a level with fighting organized crime.

Keep it up JR and don't stop! Be an american and stick up for what you believe.


>To Heinz and others that sounded off:
>
>Both the jack brackets that I purchased sat too low for use a standard bottle
>jack; at least that is what I observed when using them in Myrtle Beach on a
>coach. I was going to make the contact point 1 to 2 inches higher and have it
>stress tested before making it available for general use to the netters at
>cost. The design of the jack bracket is a simple hook to hook into the
>boogie. No real engineering needed here and I don't think I was stealing
>someones patented design. However, upon further analysis, I will quietly drop
>this idea and move onto other things. I will also drop the Ramco mirrors
>wholesale buying for the group after this week; no reason to cut Caspro and
>others out of their profit; I agree, we do need these people to provide parts
>and services in the future.
>
>Heinz, I enjoy and appreciate your web page. And to the others that chimed
>in, I enjoy your comments and advice also. No hard feelings. I just had the
>misconstrued idea, especially after the 50+ people that signed up for the
>wheel puller for $200, that it was something we could do to help each other;
>like making a better product and offering it cheaper to the netters. I stand
>corrected.
>
>I have learned my lesson. No need for anyone else to comment either way on
>this thread, as it will only disrupt the flow of good information on the net.
>
>You all take care.
>
>JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach

 

[bartz paul]

I too was with Jerry in MYR. It was Frank Folkman's coach where an inherent
design deficiency with the currently available jack pads was evident. Frank
could not extract the bottle jack supporting the jack pad when he
reinstalled his passenger side rear wheels, let alone try to insert a jack
under the pad to jack up the wheels in the first place. Frank used a
borrowed floor jack to initially jack the coach up.

As I recall, although Frank had a 1 x or 2 x board or two under his bottle
jack to support it since it was on a grassed campground site, I don't know
if the jack would otherwise fit under the jack pad. It must, because I
recall seeing on other occasions, several coaches while camped using a
bottle jack and the jack pads to stabilize the coach.

Paul Bartz

From: Thomas G. Warner [mailto:warner]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Be an American

JR in the case of the wheel puller, it was basically a GM design and
everyone else copied some aspect of it and made it better. No one has a
patent on copying, at least in my opinion. I have a problem with an
individual producing a puller for $500+ that everyone needs but can't afford
at that price, particularly when it leads to dangerous maintenance on the
coach. I don't have any guilt feelings in producing a puller at cost, that
50 others need.
There will always be one or two individuals that want to throw a wrench into
your good intentions. Don't let this minority influence your future
involvement. Its part of life.
When 35+ people bought the stainless steel brakelines that I set up no one
complained about it? That cut someone out of a lot of money.Someone must
sell them retail somewhere.
The bottom line. We are here to support each other with technical advice,
suggestions in enjoying our coaches, travelling suggestions, enjoying the
differences in personalities, support (black list) and occasionally helping
each other to bulk buy something that is needed but is to high in price. I
don't think that is on a level with fighting organized crime.
Keep it up JR and don't stop! Be an american and stick up for what you
believe.

To Heinz and others that sounded off:
Both the jack brackets that I purchased sat too low for use a standard
bottle jack; at least that is what I observed when using them in Myrtle
Beach on a coach. I was going to make the contact point 1 to 2 inches
higher and have it stress tested before making it available for general use
to the netters at cost. The design of the jack bracket is a simple hook to
hook into the boogie. No real engineering needed here and I don't think I
was stealing someone's patented design. However, upon further analysis, I
will quietly drop this idea and move onto other things. I will also drop
the Ramco mirrors wholesale buying for the group after this week; no reason
to cut Caspro and others out of their profit; I agree, we do need these
people to provide parts and services in the future.
Heinz, I enjoy and appreciate your web page. And to the others that chimed
in, I enjoy your comments and advice also. No hard feelings. I just had
the misconstrued idea, especially after the 50+ people that signed up for
the wheel puller for $200, that it was something we could do to help each
other; like making a better product and offering it cheaper to the netters.
I stand corrected.
I have learned my lesson. No need for anyone else to comment either way on
this thread, as it will only disrupt the flow of good information on the
net.
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC

 

[gary miller]

But unfortunately "being an American" manufacturer (which is what you would if you
made jack pads) is that you then assume the liability for any product defect,
which in the case of a jack pad which has the potential of a very serious accident,
and that could result in a catastrophic law suit. Add in the cost of insurance
with your product and you get right back to the going $40 selling price.
Gary
North Bend, Oregon Coast

> JR in the case of the wheel puller, it was basically a GM design and
> everyone else copied some aspect of it and made it better. No one has a
> patent on copying, at least in my opinion. I have a problem with an
> individual producing a puller for $500+ that everyone needs but can't afford
> at that price, particularly when it leads to dangerous maintenance on the
> coach. I don't have any guilt feelings in producing a puller at cost, that
> 50 others need.
>
> There will always be one or two individuals that want to throw a wrench into
> your good intentions. Don't let this minority influence your future
> involvement. Its part of life.
>
> When 35+ people bought the stainless steel brakelines that I set up no one
> complained about it? That cut someone out of a lot of money.Someone must
> sell them retail somewhere.
>
> The bottom line. We are here to support each other with technical advice,
> suggestions in enjoying our coaches, travelling suggestions, enjoying the
> differences in personalities, support (black list) and occasionally helping
> each other to bulk buy something that is needed but is to high in price. I
> don't think that is on a level with fighting organized crime.
>
> Keep it up JR and don't stop! Be an american and stick up for what you believe.
>
>

> >To Heinz and others that sounded off:
> >
> >Both the jack brackets that I purchased sat too low for use a standard bottle
> >jack; at least that is what I observed when using them in Myrtle Beach on a
> >coach. I was going to make the contact point 1 to 2 inches higher and have it
> >stress tested before making it available for general use to the netters at
> >cost. The design of the jack bracket is a simple hook to hook into the
> >boogie. No real engineering needed here and I don't think I was stealing
> >someones patented design. However, upon further analysis, I will quietly drop
> >this idea and move onto other things. I will also drop the Ramco mirrors
> >wholesale buying for the group after this week; no reason to cut Caspro and
> >others out of their profit; I agree, we do need these people to provide parts
> >and services in the future.
> >
> >Heinz, I enjoy and appreciate your web page. And to the others that chimed
> >in, I enjoy your comments and advice also. No hard feelings. I just had the
> >misconstrued idea, especially after the 50+ people that signed up for the
> >wheel puller for $200, that it was something we could do to help each other;
> >like making a better product and offering it cheaper to the netters. I stand
> >corrected.
> >
> >I have learned my lesson. No need for anyone else to comment either way on
> >this thread, as it will only disrupt the flow of good information on the net.
> >
> >You all take care.
> >
> >JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC
> >
> >
> Tom & Marg Warner
> Vernon Center NY
> 1976 palmbeach

 

[richard waters]

> To all the GMC Net participants,

I just had to chime in here:

With all this talk about design copying and unethical behavior I want to put in my
2 cents worth. I know what I'm going to say has probably been said before, but
I'll say it again.

Since I started my involvement with my new hobby (my 1976 Palm Beach) last Summer
the GMC Net has got to be the best thing I've stumbled across. I subscribe to all
the periodicals (GMC International Newsletter, GMC Motorhome News and GMC Motorhome
Marketplace) and I think I'm on all the various GMC part vendor mailing lists.
Plus I have 18 years worth of letters, receipts, brochures, manuals, newsletters
and other miscellaneous junk that was piled almost 3 feet high from the previous
owner.

That stuff is sure nice to have, but it all takes a back seat to what I've learned
from all of you on the GMC net.

The last thing I want to see is anything that reduces the information flow. I want
and need all the information that I can get!

I do see a problem! I've only been on the GMC net for a few months now, but it
seems like the flow of good information is sometimes reduced by the occasional
negative Email comment. I know that it is unintentional. No one here has any bad
feelings against anyone else here on the net. But it happens.

I hate to see people get offended by innocent comments sent by such an impersonal
medium as email. I know I was offended by things that Arch said a few weeks ago
about Air bags & cones and I offended him back. As most of you know Arch has since
stopped actively participating in the GMC net. He left right after my comments to
him. I sure hate to think I caused the departure of a such a great resource of GMC
information. Arch and I have communicated privately since then, and I think he's
accepted my apology. I was probably "the straw that broke the camels back".

I'll get to the point now. I think many of us take what's said via Email too
personal. And more importantly, we don't always realize the impact negative
statements can have on people when delivered by Email. I've noticed that more then
once certain GMC netters, that had been contributing a lot, suddenly stop after a
negative comment from someone. I know I stopped for a while because I felt almost
like I was being picked on and why bother? We're all adults here and should be
able to take criticism, but in reality we don't always do a good job responding to
the occasional critical comment. I know I didn't.

Maybe a modified version of the "Golden Rule" applies here. "Don't Email on to
others, what you wouldn't want to have Emailed on to you". I know I'm trying to to
use this rule.

David Greenburg wrote recently:

"How about everybody lighten up a bit!

Sometimes things said tongue-in-cheek are misunderstood when you aren't
in a face-to-face situation.

Lets not get too serious about what is perceived as barbs when they well
may not be barbs at all but a slightly twisted sense of humor.

Lets enjoy the benefits of the Net."

Please keep in mind that any of my comments perceived as negative are intended to
bring the issues raised to the attention of the participants of the GMC net and not
to reach any negative conclusions about the ethics, ability or capacity of any
person, living or dead, or any GMC motorhome or accessory. (disclaimer courtesy,
in a vague way, from Flying Magazine)

And last, but not least, how about a big round of applause for Patrick Flowers and
all the work he's doing on our behalf!

Just my .02 worth,

Richard Waters
1976 Palm Beach
Troy, MI

 

[richard bachert]

Tom, Can you tell me more about the BRAKE LINES to which you refer below?
As I get deeper into this thing, it is becoming -- as I fully expected it
would -- a little like following a line through a new cave (my son's are
Florida cave divers): It can lead ANYWHERE. As I work my way forward from
the bogeys, am finding other items to replace/rehab. The brake lines fall
into that category.
Thanks in advance
Dick (an American who can't wait until the next election) 75 PB in Atlanta

>JR in the case of the wheel puller, it was basically a GM design and
>everyone else copied some aspect of it and made it better. No one has a
>patent on copying, at least in my opinion. I have a problem with an
>individual producing a puller for $500+ that everyone needs but can't afford
>at that price, particularly when it leads to dangerous maintenance on the
>coach. I don't have any guilt feelings in producing a puller at cost, that
>50 others need.
>
>There will always be one or two individuals that want to throw a wrench into
>your good intentions. Don't let this minority influence your future
>involvement. Its part of life.
>
>When 35+ people bought the stainless steel brakelines that I set up no one
>complained about it? That cut someone out of a lot of money.Someone must
>sell them retail somewhere.
>
>The bottom line. We are here to support each other with technical advice,
>suggestions in enjoying our coaches, travelling suggestions, enjoying the
>differences in personalities, support (black list) and occasionally helping
>each other to bulk buy something that is needed but is to high in price. I
>don't think that is on a level with fighting organized crime.
>
>Keep it up JR and don't stop! Be an american and stick up for what you believe.
>
>
>

>>To Heinz and others that sounded off:
>>
>>Both the jack brackets that I purchased sat too low for use a standard bottle
>>jack; at least that is what I observed when using them in Myrtle Beach on a
>>coach. I was going to make the contact point 1 to 2 inches higher and have it
>>stress tested before making it available for general use to the netters at
>>cost. The design of the jack bracket is a simple hook to hook into the
>>boogie. No real engineering needed here and I don't think I was stealing
>>someones patented design. However, upon further analysis, I will quietly drop
>>this idea and move onto other things. I will also drop the Ramco mirrors
>>wholesale buying for the group after this week; no reason to cut Caspro and
>>others out of their profit; I agree, we do need these people to provide parts
>>and services in the future.
>>
>>Heinz, I enjoy and appreciate your web page. And to the others that chimed
>>in, I enjoy your comments and advice also. No hard feelings. I just had the
>>misconstrued idea, especially after the 50+ people that signed up for the
>>wheel puller for $200, that it was something we could do to help each other;
>>like making a better product and offering it cheaper to the netters. I stand
>>corrected.
>>
>>I have learned my lesson. No need for anyone else to comment either way on
>>this thread, as it will only disrupt the flow of good information on the net.
>>
>>You all take care.
>>
>>JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC
>>
>>
>Tom & Marg Warner
>Vernon Center NY
>1976 palmbeach
>
>

 

[richard bachert]

Richard is correct. I've been netting elsewhere for 5 years or so and it's
VERY easy for a comment made with tongue-in-cheek to be taken as an insult.
A few well placed emoticons can help convey the spirit in which a
particular post is written. The pure, written word is a very literal means
of conveying thought and we all -- myself included -- need to be very
careful about HOW we say things on this most valuable information network.
Just my nickle's worth (inflation, ya know) ))
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>> To all the GMC Net participants,
>
>I just had to chime in here:
>
>With all this talk about design copying and unethical behavior I want to
put in my
>2 cents worth. I know what I'm going to say has probably been said
before, but
>I'll say it again.
>
>Since I started my involvement with my new hobby (my 1976 Palm Beach) last
Summer
>the GMC Net has got to be the best thing I've stumbled across. I subscribe
to all
>the periodicals (GMC International Newsletter, GMC Motorhome News and GMC
Motorhome
>Marketplace) and I think I'm on all the various GMC part vendor mailing lists.
>Plus I have 18 years worth of letters, receipts, brochures, manuals,
newsletters
>and other miscellaneous junk that was piled almost 3 feet high from the
previous
>owner.
>
>That stuff is sure nice to have, but it all takes a back seat to what I've
learned
>from all of you on the GMC net.
>
>The last thing I want to see is anything that reduces the information flow.
I want
>and need all the information that I can get!
>
>I do see a problem! I've only been on the GMC net for a few months now, but it
>seems like the flow of good information is sometimes reduced by the occasional
>negative Email comment. I know that it is unintentional. No one here has
any bad
>feelings against anyone else here on the net. But it happens.
>
>I hate to see people get offended by innocent comments sent by such an
impersonal
>medium as email. I know I was offended by things that Arch said a few
weeks ago
>about Air bags & cones and I offended him back. As most of you know Arch
has since
>stopped actively participating in the GMC net. He left right after my
comments to
>him. I sure hate to think I caused the departure of a such a great
resource of GMC
>information. Arch and I have communicated privately since then, and I think
he's
>accepted my apology. I was probably "the straw that broke the camels back".
>
>I'll get to the point now. I think many of us take what's said via Email too
>personal. And more importantly, we don't always realize the impact negative
>statements can have on people when delivered by Email. I've noticed that
more then
>once certain GMC netters, that had been contributing a lot, suddenly stop
after a
>negative comment from someone. I know I stopped for a while because I felt
almost
>like I was being picked on and why bother? We're all adults here and
should be
>able to take criticism, but in reality we don't always do a good job
responding to
>the occasional critical comment. I know I didn't.
>
>Maybe a modified version of the "Golden Rule" applies here. "Don't Email on to
>others, what you wouldn't want to have Emailed on to you". I know I'm
trying to to
>use this rule.
>
>David Greenburg wrote recently:
>
>"How about everybody lighten up a bit!
>
>Sometimes things said tongue-in-cheek are misunderstood when you aren't
>in a face-to-face situation.
>
>Lets not get too serious about what is perceived as barbs when they well
>may not be barbs at all but a slightly twisted sense of humor.
>
>Lets enjoy the benefits of the Net."
>
>Please keep in mind that any of my comments perceived as negative are
intended to
>bring the issues raised to the attention of the participants of the GMC net
and not
>to reach any negative conclusions about the ethics, ability or capacity of any
>person, living or dead, or any GMC motorhome or accessory. (disclaimer
courtesy,
>in a vague way, from Flying Magazine)
>
>And last, but not least, how about a big round of applause for Patrick
Flowers and
>all the work he's doing on our behalf!
>
>Just my .02 worth,
>
>Richard Waters
>1976 Palm Beach
>Troy, MI
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

[richard bachert]

Rick, EXCELLENT rant, my good man.
Two related thoughts (as Bachert adjusts the soap box before stepping up):
Thought 1:
One T. Jefferson warned that if the socialism then (late 1700s) ravaging
Europe (France) ever reached these shores, two things would occur: We would
become a litigious and contentious people as we shouldered one another out
of the way to get "OURS" from the public trough and the trough would soon be
empty! It DID come here and both have happened: The courts are overflowing
and we're essentially broke (and our grandkids will, according to a recent
DEMOCRAT sponsored study, see fully 84% of their lifetime wealth confiscated
by government to pay the bill). Cremation is looking better all the time if
only to prevent them from digging us up in 50 years or so to spit in our
faces for not stopping it while we still could!
Thought 2:
"Whom God would destroy, He first makes insane."

End of MY not really off-topic rant.
If the system that provides us our "goodies" (including our Jimmys)
collapses, whatja gonna do then?
My late friend Larry McDonald (whom I helped campaign with my GMC before he
died) often declared that the folks with the most to lose if the "system"
here fails, often do the least to preserve it.

Mr. Jefferson fully shared Willy Shakespeare's low opinion of lawyers ("Land
Sharks") Jefferson began the U of V for just that reason -- to train
principled and honest lawyers (BEFORE that phrase was the oxymoron it is today).

Two of the saddest words in any language are "If only...!"
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta

>
>> Has anyone ever asked when they
>> have bought these four bag systems, jack hooks, sway bars, disc brake
>> conversions, etc. that the seller has product liability insurance?
>
>Good grief!
> As I ascend the soap box, please let me make clear that the following rant
>is not directed at anyone herein personally. BUT..... It seems that to
>"..Be an American.." now means carrying exorbitant liability insurance,
>means consulting one's lawyer before any decision or venture, means suing and
>being sued at the drop of a coffee cup. Please count me out.
>
> I think I realized things had gone too far about 10 years ago. My auto
>insurance agent and/or company was recommending that I carry "underinsured
>motorist" coverage equal to my liability coverage. Asking exactly what this
>coverage insured against, I was informed that in the event of an accident
>WHICH WAS NOT MY FAULT, if the responsible party did not have sufficient
>insurance, then a victim of this accident WHICH WAS NOT MY FAULT could sue ME
>for damages WHICH I DID NOT CAUSE, and be paid off by this insurance. Now I
>know how Alice felt in Lewis Carrol's tale.
>
> It is quite evident that the courts have long since ceased to be an
>instrument of justice, assigning costs to those responsible, but rather an
>engine of social engineering and "insurance", taking money from those who
>have it, and passing it to those who "need" it. (ie: "This poor fellow was
>so terribly hurt when he tried drying his hair while in the bathtub. And
>this company who makes hair dryers has so much money. Let's take some and
>give it to the poor fellow....")
>
> It is this approach which has effectively doubled the price of a ladder
>(Over 1/2 the price of a ladder is liability insurance, for a product which
>has existed for thousands of years!), which has driven Cessna, Beechcraft,
>and every other American manufacturer of "private planes" from the field.
>(If you want to buy a small plane today, you buy used or foreign. No others
>remain.) It is this approach which drove major companies, from Dow Corning
>to Johns Mansville, to bankruptcy for actions which were never proven to harm
>any one (Dow) or were unknown to be harmful at the time (J-M). I could go
>on....
>
> For my part, I will support those entrepreneurs who produce good products
>at good prices, and especially those who risk it all because they cannot or
>will not pay exorbitant insurance rates. Since any bloodsucking product
>liability lawyer worthy of his tobacco money would exclude me from a jury for
>the sin of thinking, I risk nothing by saying that as a juror I will NEVER
>assess a dime against anyone unless real negligence has been proven. And I
>will not buy liability insurance against an accident which will not be my
>fault!
>
> Shakespeare was right.
>
> Rant off.
>
>Rick Staples
>'75 Eleganza
>Louisville, CO
>
>
>
>
>
Dick Bachert, Editor CATTALES and member, National Board, Citizens for an
Alternative Tax System (CATS)

To learn the WHOLE story on TAX REFORM, check out one of the following:
Toll Free Info Line: 1-800-767-7577
FAX-ON-DEMAND: 716-720-2025
On-Line: http://www.nrst.org

"As life is action and passion, it is required of a man that he be part of
the action and passion of his times LEST HE BE JUDGED NEVER TO HAVE LIVED."
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

"Those who prevent PEACEFUL CHANGE invite VIOLENT REVOLUTION." Newt Gingrich
paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson.

 

[mr.c]

More trivia... Just thought I would pass on a translation of the indian word for
lawyer. I learned this from a great and important Navajo. He was explaining lots
of lore about how difficult it was to translate words from english to Navajo. For
example, a dump truck and front end loader have no meaning in Navajo. So it takes
lots of words to describe them. Anyway, the translation of lawyer is "He who lies
for you." Though you all might like that. And, it's true.
Al Chernoff

> Rick, EXCELLENT rant, my good man.
> Two related thoughts (as Bachert adjusts the soap box before stepping up):
> Thought 1:
> One T. Jefferson warned that if the socialism then (late 1700s) ravaging
> Europe (France) ever reached these shores, two things would occur: We would
> become a litigious and contentious people as we shouldered one another out
> of the way to get "OURS" from the public trough and the trough would soon be
> empty! It DID come here and both have happened: The courts are overflowing
> and we're essentially broke (and our grandkids will, according to a recent
> DEMOCRAT sponsored study, see fully 84% of their lifetime wealth confiscated
> by government to pay the bill). Cremation is looking better all the time if
> only to prevent them from digging us up in 50 years or so to spit in our
> faces for not stopping it while we still could!
> Thought 2:
> "Whom God would destroy, He first makes insane."
>
> End of MY not really off-topic rant.
> If the system that provides us our "goodies" (including our Jimmys)
> collapses, whatja gonna do then?
> My late friend Larry McDonald (whom I helped campaign with my GMC before he
> died) often declared that the folks with the most to lose if the "system"
> here fails, often do the least to preserve it.
>
> Mr. Jefferson fully shared Willy Shakespeare's low opinion of lawyers ("Land
> Sharks") Jefferson began the U of V for just that reason -- to train
> principled and honest lawyers (BEFORE that phrase was the oxymoron it is today).
>
> Two of the saddest words in any language are "If only...!"
> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
>

> >
> >> Has anyone ever asked when they
> >> have bought these four bag systems, jack hooks, sway bars, disc brake
> >> conversions, etc. that the seller has product liability insurance?
> >
> >Good grief!
> > As I ascend the soap box, please let me make clear that the following rant
> >is not directed at anyone herein personally. BUT..... It seems that to
> >"..Be an American.." now means carrying exorbitant liability insurance,
> >means consulting one's lawyer before any decision or venture, means suing and
> >being sued at the drop of a coffee cup. Please count me out.
> >
> > I think I realized things had gone too far about 10 years ago. My auto
> >insurance agent and/or company was recommending that I carry "underinsured
> >motorist" coverage equal to my liability coverage. Asking exactly what this
> >coverage insured against, I was informed that in the event of an accident
> >WHICH WAS NOT MY FAULT, if the responsible party did not have sufficient
> >insurance, then a victim of this accident WHICH WAS NOT MY FAULT could sue ME
> >for damages WHICH I DID NOT CAUSE, and be paid off by this insurance. Now I
> >know how Alice felt in Lewis Carrol's tale.
> >
> > It is quite evident that the courts have long since ceased to be an
> >instrument of justice, assigning costs to those responsible, but rather an
> >engine of social engineering and "insurance", taking money from those who
> >have it, and passing it to those who "need" it. (ie: "This poor fellow was
> >so terribly hurt when he tried drying his hair while in the bathtub. And
> >this company who makes hair dryers has so much money. Let's take some and
> >give it to the poor fellow....")
> >
> > It is this approach which has effectively doubled the price of a ladder
> >(Over 1/2 the price of a ladder is liability insurance, for a product which
> >has existed for thousands of years!), which has driven Cessna, Beechcraft,
> >and every other American manufacturer of "private planes" from the field.
> >(If you want to buy a small plane today, you buy used or foreign. No others
> >remain.) It is this approach which drove major companies, from Dow Corning
> >to Johns Mansville, to bankruptcy for actions which were never proven to harm
> >any one (Dow) or were unknown to be harmful at the time (J-M). I could go
> >on....
> >
> > For my part, I will support those entrepreneurs who produce good products
> >at good prices, and especially those who risk it all because they cannot or
> >will not pay exorbitant insurance rates. Since any bloodsucking product
> >liability lawyer worthy of his tobacco money would exclude me from a jury for
> >the sin of thinking, I risk nothing by saying that as a juror I will NEVER
> >assess a dime against anyone unless real negligence has been proven. And I
> >will not buy liability insurance against an accident which will not be my
> >fault!
> >
> > Shakespeare was right.
> >
> > Rant off.
> >
> >Rick Staples
> >'75 Eleganza
> >Louisville, CO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Dick Bachert, Editor CATTALES and member, National Board, Citizens for an
> Alternative Tax System (CATS)
>
> To learn the WHOLE story on TAX REFORM, check out one of the following:
> Toll Free Info Line: 1-800-767-7577
> FAX-ON-DEMAND: 716-720-2025
> On-Line: http://www.nrst.org
>
> "As life is action and passion, it is required of a man that he be part of
> the action and passion of his times LEST HE BE JUDGED NEVER TO HAVE LIVED."
> Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
>
> "Those who prevent PEACEFUL CHANGE invite VIOLENT REVOLUTION." Newt Gingrich
> paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson.

 

[richard bachert]

Al, My good friend, F.Tupper Saussy, researched the wort "attorney" and
traced it back to the ancient Sanscrit word "torwa" meaning "to twist."
Works for me!
Dick 75 PB in Atlanta (city of twisters -- both kinds!)

>More trivia... Just thought I would pass on a translation of the indian
word for
>lawyer. I learned this from a great and important Navajo. He was
explaining lots
>of lore about how difficult it was to translate words from english to
Navajo. For
>example, a dump truck and front end loader have no meaning in Navajo. So
it takes
>lots of words to describe them. Anyway, the translation of lawyer is "He
who lies
>for you." Though you all might like that. And, it's true.
>Al Chernoff
>

>
>> Rick, EXCELLENT rant, my good man.
>> Two related thoughts (as Bachert adjusts the soap box before stepping up):
>> Thought 1:
>> One T. Jefferson warned that if the socialism then (late 1700s) ravaging
>> Europe (France) ever reached these shores, two things would occur: We would
>> become a litigious and contentious people as we shouldered one another out
>> of the way to get "OURS" from the public trough and the trough would soon be
>> empty! It DID come here and both have happened: The courts are overflowing
>> and we're essentially broke (and our grandkids will, according to a recent
>> DEMOCRAT sponsored study, see fully 84% of their lifetime wealth confiscated
>> by government to pay the bill). Cremation is looking better all the time if
>> only to prevent them from digging us up in 50 years or so to spit in our
>> faces for not stopping it while we still could!
>> Thought 2:
>> "Whom God would destroy, He first makes insane."
>>
>> End of MY not really off-topic rant.
>> If the system that provides us our "goodies" (including our Jimmys)
>> collapses, whatja gonna do then?
>> My late friend Larry McDonald (whom I helped campaign with my GMC before he
>> died) often declared that the folks with the most to lose if the "system"
>> here fails, often do the least to preserve it.
>>
>> Mr. Jefferson fully shared Willy Shakespeare's low opinion of lawyers ("Land
>> Sharks") Jefferson began the U of V for just that reason -- to train
>> principled and honest lawyers (BEFORE that phrase was the oxymoron it is
today).
>>
>> Two of the saddest words in any language are "If only...!"
>> Dick 75 PB in Atlanta
>>

>> >
>> >> Has anyone ever asked when they
>> >> have bought these four bag systems, jack hooks, sway bars, disc brake
>> >> conversions, etc. that the seller has product liability insurance?
>> >
>> >Good grief!
>> > As I ascend the soap box, please let me make clear that the following
rant
>> >is not directed at anyone herein personally. BUT..... It seems that to
>> >"..Be an American.." now means carrying exorbitant liability insurance,
>> >means consulting one's lawyer before any decision or venture, means
suing and
>> >being sued at the drop of a coffee cup. Please count me out.
>> >
>> > I think I realized things had gone too far about 10 years ago. My auto
>> >insurance agent and/or company was recommending that I carry "underinsured
>> >motorist" coverage equal to my liability coverage. Asking exactly what this
>> >coverage insured against, I was informed that in the event of an accident
>> >WHICH WAS NOT MY FAULT, if the responsible party did not have sufficient
>> >insurance, then a victim of this accident WHICH WAS NOT MY FAULT could
sue ME
>> >for damages WHICH I DID NOT CAUSE, and be paid off by this insurance. Now I
>> >know how Alice felt in Lewis Carrol's tale.
>> >
>> > It is quite evident that the courts have long since ceased to be an
>> >instrument of justice, assigning costs to those responsible, but rather an
>> >engine of social engineering and "insurance", taking money from those who
>> >have it, and passing it to those who "need" it. (ie: "This poor fellow was
>> >so terribly hurt when he tried drying his hair while in the bathtub. And
>> >this company who makes hair dryers has so much money. Let's take some and
>> >give it to the poor fellow....")
>> >
>> > It is this approach which has effectively doubled the price of a ladder
>> >(Over 1/2 the price of a ladder is liability insurance, for a product which
>> >has existed for thousands of years!), which has driven Cessna, Beechcraft,
>> >and every other American manufacturer of "private planes" from the field.
>> >(If you want to buy a small plane today, you buy used or foreign. No others
>> >remain.) It is this approach which drove major companies, from Dow Corning
>> >to Johns Mansville, to bankruptcy for actions which were never proven to
harm
>> >any one (Dow) or were unknown to be harmful at the time (J-M). I could go
>> >on....
>> >
>> > For my part, I will support those entrepreneurs who produce good products
>> >at good prices, and especially those who risk it all because they cannot or
>> >will not pay exorbitant insurance rates. Since any bloodsucking product
>> >liability lawyer worthy of his tobacco money would exclude me from a
jury for
>> >the sin of thinking, I risk nothing by saying that as a juror I will NEVER
>> >assess a dime against anyone unless real negligence has been proven. And I
>> >will not buy liability insurance against an accident which will not be my
>> >fault!
>> >
>> > Shakespeare was right.
>> >
>> > Rant off.
>> >
>> >Rick Staples
>> >'75 Eleganza
>> >Louisville, CO
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> Dick Bachert, Editor CATTALES and member, National Board, Citizens for an
>> Alternative Tax System (CATS)
>>
>> To learn the WHOLE story on TAX REFORM, check out one of the following:
>> Toll Free Info Line: 1-800-767-7577
>> FAX-ON-DEMAND: 716-720-2025
>> On-Line: http://www.nrst.org
>>
>> "As life is action and passion, it is required of a man that he be part of
>> the action and passion of his times LEST HE BE JUDGED NEVER TO HAVE LIVED."
>> Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
>>
>> "Those who prevent PEACEFUL CHANGE invite VIOLENT REVOLUTION." Newt Gingrich
>> paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson.
>
>