Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?

heinz wittenbecher

New member
Mar 1, 1998
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My day of bliss didn't last very long the other day... 10 miles short of my
destination in San Diego I had to change another alternator.

Same problem as last one... the nut working loose. This time I put locktite
on it and will be checking it every few hundred miles until I figure the
sucker out.

It basically lasted only Redding to San Diego. Of course I didn't have the
right size socket so as I tried to go another 2 blocks to a Kragen, the belt
jumped off. It was nice to still have brakes :-)

Back to the subject line... is anyone on the net running the Serpentine Belt
conversion? and if so... how many miles on it?

Heinz
 
Alright Emery... were were you when I was at Kragen's... :-)
I must be going braindead... never thought about a lock nut that size.
I'm going to try and put another nut on in the meantime to lock it. I may
have enough threads left showing and perhaps the Locktite will do it's job.

Thanks for the reminder, even if it is late [vbg]

Heinz

- -----Original Message-----
From: EMERYSTORA
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?

>

>
>
>on it and will be checking it every few hundred miles until I figure the
>
>sucker out. >>
>
>Heinz -- try using a locknut. These are available from any auto parts and
>some hardware stores. It has a slight taper that presses in on the end of
the
>threads that prevents it from vibrating loose. You can also still use the
>lock washer if you wish. Locknuts also come with a nylon insert. I
suggest
>you use the all steel ones for the alternator. I used these for my lower
ball
>joints and them seem to work very well.
>
>Emery Stora
>77 Kingsley
>Santa Fe, NM
>
>
 
Does the serpentine belt have the alternator turning counter-clockwise,
perhaps? This might explain your having a second nut come loose. The
alternator won't otherwise care which way it is turned. Also, if you are
running the serpentine setup, I assume that you have a special pulley. Was
it damaged by having been run with the nut loose? If so, you may have to
replace it to keep from having continual problems.

I would think that Loctite would be more than adequate to keep it tight. Is
there enough shaft protruding from the nut to accommodate a lock nut?

The end of the shaft is broached for an Allen wrench so that you can get the
nut tight, but most "pros" are lazy and use an impact, relying on the
inertia of the rotor to get the nut tight. Not as precise, but they rarely
come loose. If the serpentine belt has them turning backwards, though, that
would explain a lot and would be one more example of this mailing list
helping the rest of the group avoid a pitfall...not that the serpentine
setup isn't usable, but that it does require an extra bit of care.

Travis

- -----Original Message-----
From: Heinz Wittenbecher
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?

>Alright Emery... were were you when I was at Kragen's... :-)
>I must be going braindead... never thought about a lock nut that size.
>I'm going to try and put another nut on in the meantime to lock it. I may
>have enough threads left showing and perhaps the Locktite will do it's job.
>
>Thanks for the reminder, even if it is late [vbg]
>
>Heinz
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: EMERYSTORA
>To: gmcmotorhome
>Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 8:28 PM
>Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?
>
>
>>

>>
>>locktite
>>
>>on it and will be checking it every few hundred miles until I figure the
>>
>>sucker out. >>
>>
>>Heinz -- try using a locknut. These are available from any auto parts and
>>some hardware stores. It has a slight taper that presses in on the end of
>the
>>threads that prevents it from vibrating loose. You can also still use the
>>lock washer if you wish. Locknuts also come with a nylon insert. I
>suggest
>>you use the all steel ones for the alternator. I used these for my lower
>ball
>>joints and them seem to work very well.
>>
>>Emery Stora
>>77 Kingsley
>>Santa Fe, NM
>>
>>
>
 
>Does the serpentine belt have the alternator turning counter-clockwise,
>perhaps?

This may indeed be the case. I couldn't remember which way the original
turned but judging by your comment it was clockwise?
However, thinking about it... it may not have reversed the alternator
rotation as that would also have reversed the AC compressor and I don't know
if it would take kindly to that.

I'll be checking rotation again next time the hatch is off, but I do believe
it's counter clockwise.

> This might explain your having a second nut come loose. The
>alternator won't otherwise care which way it is turned. Also, if you are
>running the serpentine setup, I assume that you have a special pulley. Was
>it damaged by having been run with the nut loose? If so, you may have to
>replace it to keep from having continual problems.

Did that, i.e. replaced the pulley each time just to be sure.

>
>I would think that Loctite would be more than adequate to keep it tight. Is
>there enough shaft protruding from the nut to accommodate a lock nut?

There is about 2 threads, going to look into that as an interm and figure
out a better fix once back home.
>
>The end of the shaft is broached for an Allen wrench so that you can get
the
>nut tight, but most "pros" are lazy and use an impact, relying on the
>inertia of the rotor to get the nut tight. Not as precise, but they rarely
>come loose.

Impact wrench is about only way now unless a special tool is built ot
available. The nut fits deep into the pulley, no hope for a wrench to allow
for the allen wrench.

>If the serpentine belt has them turning backwards, though, that
>would explain a lot and would be one more example of this mailing list
>helping the rest of the group avoid a pitfall...not that the serpentine
>setup isn't usable, but that it does require an extra bit of care.

Yes indeed. Information = 90% cure.

Will be keeping a closer eye (and wrench) on it :-)

Judging by the replies I guess I'm the lone serpentiner [g]

Heinz

>
>Travis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Heinz Wittenbecher
>To: gmcmotorhome
>Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 10:44 PM
>Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?
>
>
>>Alright Emery... were were you when I was at Kragen's... :-)
>>I must be going braindead... never thought about a lock nut that size.
>>I'm going to try and put another nut on in the meantime to lock it. I may
>>have enough threads left showing and perhaps the Locktite will do it's
job.
>>
>>Thanks for the reminder, even if it is late [vbg]
>>
>>Heinz
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: EMERYSTORA
>>To: gmcmotorhome
>>Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 8:28 PM
>>Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?
>>
>>
>>>

>>>
>>>>locktite
>>>
>>>on it and will be checking it every few hundred miles until I figure the
>>>
>>>sucker out. >>
>>>
>>>Heinz -- try using a locknut. These are available from any auto parts
and
>>>some hardware stores. It has a slight taper that presses in on the end
of
>>the
>>>threads that prevents it from vibrating loose. You can also still use
the
>>>lock washer if you wish. Locknuts also come with a nylon insert. I
>>suggest
>>>you use the all steel ones for the alternator. I used these for my lower
>>ball
>>>joints and them seem to work very well.
>>>
>>>Emery Stora
>>>77 Kingsley
>>>Santa Fe, NM
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
 
Heinz it would seem to me that the only answer is that your alternator is
turning backwards. have you got the belt routed correctly?

>My day of bliss didn't last very long the other day... 10 miles short of my
>destination in San Diego I had to change another alternator.
>
>Same problem as last one... the nut working loose. This time I put locktite
>on it and will be checking it every few hundred miles until I figure the
>sucker out.
>
>It basically lasted only Redding to San Diego. Of course I didn't have the
>right size socket so as I tried to go another 2 blocks to a Kragen, the belt
>jumped off. It was nice to still have brakes :-)
>
>Back to the subject line... is anyone on the net running the Serpentine Belt
>conversion? and if so... how many miles on it?
>
>Heinz
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
>Heinz it would seem to me that the only answer is that your alternator is
>turning backwards. have you got the belt routed correctly?
>

Been racking my brain on that one, but I do believe so.
The fan is turning the right direction, i.e. blowing air over the engine
sucking it through the rad.

Belt goes: top of alternator, under idler (backside of belt), over AC
pulley, to crank and then around waterpump (backside of belt) and to power
steering and back up to alternator.

The waterpump turns in reverse and new fan and fanclutch accomodates the
reverse.

Heinz

>

>>My day of bliss didn't last very long the other day... 10 miles short of
my
>>destination in San Diego I had to change another alternator.
>>
>>Same problem as last one... the nut working loose. This time I put
locktite
>>on it and will be checking it every few hundred miles until I figure the
>>sucker out.
>>
>>It basically lasted only Redding to San Diego. Of course I didn't have the
>>right size socket so as I tried to go another 2 blocks to a Kragen, the
belt
>>jumped off. It was nice to still have brakes :-)
>>
>>Back to the subject line... is anyone on the net running the Serpentine
Belt
>>conversion? and if so... how many miles on it?
>>
>>Heinz
>>
>>
>>
>Tom & Marg Warner
>Vernon Center NY
>1976 palmbeach
>
>
 
Heinz,

If the belt goes over the alternator pulley the same as over the crank
pulley, then the alternator is not reversed...the only way a pulley will
turn backwards is if it is contacting the back side of the belt. In your
description, that is only the idler pulley and the water pump. So that isn't
the problem; can't say why you had two come loose in such a short time. It
isn't a common problem in conventional applications. Possibly you just
didn't have them tight enough.

You can very easily make a tool to tighten with by "sacrificing" a socket.
Go buy a relatively inexpensive socket to fit the nut and weld a bar to it;
this leaves the 1/2" square hole in the socket to insert an allen wrench
into so that you can tighten the nut. I can't imagine that if you tighten it
properly and especially if you use Loctite that it would come loose again.
Does yours use a wave washer or a split lock washer under the nut?

I'm sure that this doesn't add to the pleasure of the trip. Sorry to hear
that you're having trouble. At least it's up where you can get to it
relatively easily.

Travis

- -----Original Message-----
From: Heinz Wittenbecher
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?

>
>
>>Does the serpentine belt have the alternator turning counter-clockwise,
>>perhaps?
>
>This may indeed be the case. I couldn't remember which way the original
>turned but judging by your comment it was clockwise?
>However, thinking about it... it may not have reversed the alternator
>rotation as that would also have reversed the AC compressor and I don't
know
>if it would take kindly to that.
>
>I'll be checking rotation again next time the hatch is off, but I do
believe
>it's counter clockwise.
>
>> This might explain your having a second nut come loose. The
>>alternator won't otherwise care which way it is turned. Also, if you are
>>running the serpentine setup, I assume that you have a special pulley. Was
>>it damaged by having been run with the nut loose? If so, you may have to
>>replace it to keep from having continual problems.
>
>Did that, i.e. replaced the pulley each time just to be sure.
>
>
>>
>>I would think that Loctite would be more than adequate to keep it tight.
Is
>>there enough shaft protruding from the nut to accommodate a lock nut?
>
>There is about 2 threads, going to look into that as an interm and figure
>out a better fix once back home.
>>
>>The end of the shaft is broached for an Allen wrench so that you can get
>the
>>nut tight, but most "pros" are lazy and use an impact, relying on the
>>inertia of the rotor to get the nut tight. Not as precise, but they rarely
>>come loose.
>
>Impact wrench is about only way now unless a special tool is built ot
>available. The nut fits deep into the pulley, no hope for a wrench to allow
>for the allen wrench.
>
>>If the serpentine belt has them turning backwards, though, that
>>would explain a lot and would be one more example of this mailing list
>>helping the rest of the group avoid a pitfall...not that the serpentine
>>setup isn't usable, but that it does require an extra bit of care.
>
>Yes indeed. Information = 90% cure.
>
>Will be keeping a closer eye (and wrench) on it :-)
>
>Judging by the replies I guess I'm the lone serpentiner [g]
>
>Heinz
>
>
>>
>>Travis
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Heinz Wittenbecher
>>To: gmcmotorhome
>>Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 10:44 PM
>>Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?
>>
>>
>>>Alright Emery... were were you when I was at Kragen's... :-)
>>>I must be going braindead... never thought about a lock nut that size.
>>>I'm going to try and put another nut on in the meantime to lock it. I may
>>>have enough threads left showing and perhaps the Locktite will do it's
>job.
>>>
>>>Thanks for the reminder, even if it is late [vbg]
>>>
>>>Heinz
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: EMERYSTORA
>>>To: gmcmotorhome
>>>Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 8:28 PM
>>>Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?
>>>
>>>
>>>>

>>>>
>>>>>>locktite
>>>>
>>>>on it and will be checking it every few hundred miles until I figure the
>>>>
>>>>sucker out. >>
>>>>
>>>>Heinz -- try using a locknut. These are available from any auto parts
>and
>>>>some hardware stores. It has a slight taper that presses in on the end
>of
>>>the
>>>>threads that prevents it from vibrating loose. You can also still use
>the
>>>>lock washer if you wish. Locknuts also come with a nylon insert. I
>>>suggest
>>>>you use the all steel ones for the alternator. I used these for my
lower
>>>ball
>>>>joints and them seem to work very well.
>>>>
>>>>Emery Stora
>>>>77 Kingsley
>>>>Santa Fe, NM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
 
>
>If the belt goes over the alternator pulley the same as over the crank
>pulley, then the alternator is not reversed...the only way a pulley will
>turn backwards is if it is contacting the back side of the belt. In your
>description, that is only the idler pulley and the water pump. So that
isn't
>the problem; can't say why you had two come loose in such a short time. It
>isn't a common problem in conventional applications. Possibly you just
>didn't have them tight enough.

I did doublecheck today re pulley, belt, etc and I do have it on correctly.
There is a lockwasher (split washer).

I'm going to build the tool as you suggested... thank you.

 
No such thing as a stupid question... at least not on this list :-)

The only item running in reverse is waterpump and fan.
Just to be sure I had it on ok I called Leigh and doublechecked.

The suggestion to make a tool using a socket and weld a bar onto it didn't
wash. Apparently tool steel doesn't weld well.
I'm going to look at Sears for one of them new fangled ratchet handles that
have a whole in them where a bolt or allan wrench will hopefully fit
through.

In the meantime I'm hoping the locktite will hold until I get home to
investigate/fix further. Of course that might be a while.

Heinz

- -----Original Message-----
From: GMC77PB
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?

>May I ask a stupid question? Does the Serpentine belt change the rotation
of
>the alternator? If so that could be the reason the nut comes loose. May
need
>left hand threads
>Justin
>
>
 
Aren't you having cooling problems from your water pump and fan running
backwards. The fan now pushes air thru the radiator and the coolant flow has
been changed?

>No such thing as a stupid question... at least not on this list :-)
>
>The only item running in reverse is waterpump and fan.
>Just to be sure I had it on ok I called Leigh and doublechecked.
>
>The suggestion to make a tool using a socket and weld a bar onto it didn't
>wash. Apparently tool steel doesn't weld well.
>I'm going to look at Sears for one of them new fangled ratchet handles that
>have a whole in them where a bolt or allan wrench will hopefully fit
>through.
>
>In the meantime I'm hoping the locktite will hold until I get home to
>investigate/fix further. Of course that might be a while.
>
>Heinz
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: GMC77PB
>To: gmcmotorhome
>Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 9:18 AM
>Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?
>
>
>>May I ask a stupid question? Does the Serpentine belt change the rotation
>of
>>the alternator? If so that could be the reason the nut comes loose. May
>need
>>left hand threads
>>Justin
>>
>>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
>Aren't you having cooling problems from your water pump and fan running
>backwards. The fan now pushes air thru the radiator and the coolant flow
has
>been changed?
>

New fan (reversed) is installed as part of the kit so air is still sucked
through the radiator.

Waterpump apparently can run either way but perhaps not as efficient in
reverse. However, temps are good.

Heinz

>
>

>>No such thing as a stupid question... at least not on this list :-)
>>
>>The only item running in reverse is waterpump and fan.
>>Just to be sure I had it on ok I called Leigh and doublechecked.
>>
>>The suggestion to make a tool using a socket and weld a bar onto it didn't
>>wash. Apparently tool steel doesn't weld well.
>>I'm going to look at Sears for one of them new fangled ratchet handles
that
>>have a whole in them where a bolt or allan wrench will hopefully fit
>>through.
>>
>>In the meantime I'm hoping the locktite will hold until I get home to
>>investigate/fix further. Of course that might be a while.
>>
>>Heinz
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: GMC77PB
>>To: gmcmotorhome
>>Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 9:18 AM
>>Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?
>>
>>
>>>May I ask a stupid question? Does the Serpentine belt change the
rotation
>>of
>>>the alternator? If so that could be the reason the nut comes loose. May
>>need
>>>left hand threads
>>>Justin
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>Tom & Marg Warner
>Vernon Center NY
>1976 palmbeach
>
>
 
Heinz:
>From previously talking to Leigh Harrison on his serpentine belt system, the
radiator cooling fan he includes in his kit is standard on certain late
model Chevy Caprice's and certain other GM models.
If I remember correctly, Leigh told me that GM found with reverse flow of
coolant through the engine, results in more uniform temperatures throughout
the engine block compared to those with opposite flow. Apparently, GM also
found there is some improvement in engine emissions as a result.
Paul Bartz

From: Heinz Wittenbecher [mailto:heinz]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?

Aren't you having cooling problems from your water pump and
fan running backwards. The fan now pushes air thru the radiator and the
coolant flow has been changed?

New fan (reversed) is installed as part of the kit so air is still sucked
through the radiator.
Waterpump apparently can run either way but perhaps not as efficient in
reverse. However, temps are good.
Heinz

No such thing as a stupid question... at least not on this list :-)
The only item running in reverse is waterpump and fan. Just to be sure I
had it on ok I called Leigh and doublechecked.
The suggestion to make a tool using a socket and weld a bar onto it didn't
wash. Apparently tool steel doesn't weld well.
I'm going to look at Sears for one of them new fangled ratchet handles that
have a whole in them where a bolt or allan wrench will hopefully fit
through.
In the meantime I'm hoping the locktite will hold until I get home to
investigate/fix further. Of course that might be a while.
Heinz
From: GMC77PB
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Anyone running the Serpentime belt kit besides me?
May I ask a stupid question? Does the Serpentine belt change the rotation
of the alternator? If so that could be the reason the nut comes loose. May
need left hand threads
Justin
 
Paul; Reverse flow as it applies to to new generation Chevy small blocks is
a completely different animal. It has nothing to do with these Olds (455)
engines.. GM has designed in the capability to completely submerge the water
jacket, eliminate hot spots, air pockets, etc. allowing an improvement in
cooling where it is needed most, the top end of the motor. You don't get
the same effect by reversing the direction of the water pump, you still get
the air pockets, hot spots, etc. walter bright.