anti-sieze too many choices

[LQQKatJon]

I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or price.

The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this problem 1 last and
final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought I would ask the experts??

there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine Grade Anti-seize.

What would be best for the header bolts/studs?
--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

 

[Jim Hupy]

I am still working off of a can of "Never-Seez" that I bought many years
ago. Product # NS-40. Calls itself Anti-Seize and Lubricating compound. It
is a silver colored paste that literally gets on everything near by. I
drilled a hole in the lid and use a round acid brush to apply it. It has
always done a good job on exhaust manifold bolts for me. I have used the
copper colored compound you described as well. I can't tell much difference
in performance.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto
part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or price.

The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am
going the header route in hopes to only deal with this problem 1 last and
final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too
many choices on the shelf, so I thought I would ask the experts??

there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is
aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine Grade Anti-seize.

What would be best for the header bolts/studs?
--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[wrightjohn 2646]

John,

I have used both the nickel and copper based anti-seize products. The nickel is good up to 2200F and the copper to 1800F.

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

>
> I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or price.
>
> The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this problem 1 last and
> final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought I would ask the experts??
>
> there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine Grade Anti-seize.
>
>
> What would be best for the header bolts/studs?
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

 

[Matt Colie]

> I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or price.
>
> The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this problem 1 last and
> final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought I would ask the experts??
>
> there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine Grade
> Anti-seize.
>
>
> What would be best for the header bolts/studs?

If you have an O2 sensor, get the nickel. The original copper was Fel=Pro C5 and it contained lead. I have only used nickel for the last several
decades.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[wayne rogewski]

Now thats funny, The first house we bought 17 years ago came with a barn, Nope no barn find GMCs, but among other things was a can of Never Seez.
It was probably 3/4 full. Yes it gets on everything, I resorted to an old tooth brush to apply it. I have used that same can over hundreds of
jobs, and a dozen vehicles. Im down to my last 1/4. Good stuff and probably made with things that are now banned in most states. Ill be giving
that can to my kids along with the GMC in 40 years..... That stuff has been a life saver in the rust belt.
--
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan

 

[robert mueller]

Jon,

Keep in mind that coating the bolts with anti-seize WILL require lowering the amount of torque you use on the header retaining
bolts.

I have no idea how much.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Jon Roche
Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 4:23 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices

I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or
price.

The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this
problem 1 last and final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought
I would ask the experts??

there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine
Grade Anti-seize.

What would be best for the header bolts/studs?
--
Jon Roche

 

[steve southworth]

> Now thats funny, The first house we bought 17 years ago came with a barn, Nope no barn find GMCs, but among other things was a can of Never Seez.
> It was probably 3/4 full. Yes it gets on everything, I resorted to an old tooth brush to apply it. I have used that same can over hundreds of
> jobs, and a dozen vehicles. Im down to my last 1/4. Good stuff and probably made with things that are now banned in most states. Ill be giving
> that can to my kids along with the GMC in 40 years..... That stuff has been a life saver in the rust belt.

I have a small container of lead based anit-seize. Great stuff. I wish I could get more. I don't really know if it is better than the copper or
nickel based products. It does satisfy my "if the EPA banned it, then it must be good stuff" mindset.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

 

[Ken B]

I have both nickel and copper based (C5A) around here. One is rated for a higher temperature but I do not remember which one. So I use them
interchangeably. It is whatever can or bottle I find first. I have had at least 2 cans of C5A and who knows how many cans of the nickel based stuff
around for many years. I have never got to the bottom of any can. It has been so long that I do not even remember buying any of it.

Buy what ever color you like and it should work. The only time I would be worried about temperature rating would be on oxygen sensors. I have see a
little over 1500F EGT on my airplane leaned out at altitude. A car will never get that hot so anything below 1500F on a car should do.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[Ken B]

Minus 12 to 15% is the number that I use.

> Jon,
>
> Keep in mind that coating the bolts with anti-seize WILL require lowering the amount of torque you use on the header retaining
> bolts.
>
> I have no idea how much.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Jon Roche
> Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 4:23 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: [GMCnet] anti-sieze too many choices
>
> I have never paid much attention and have bought anti sieze at the auto part store, probably based on the first thing I grabbed, or
> price.
>
> The latest project I am addressing, is my exhaust manifold leaks, and am going the header route in hopes to only deal with this
> problem 1 last and final time, so I went to buy some "high temp" anti-seize and seen way too many choices on the shelf, so I thought
> I would ask the experts??
>
> there is copper high temp anti-seize, there is nickle anti-seize, there is aluminum anti-seize, white anti-seize, and even Marine
> Grade Anti-seize.
>
> What would be best for the header bolts/studs?
> --
> Jon Roche

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[wrightjohn 2646]

The lead based Anti-Seize is use in industry as a sealing compound also. Its temp range can go as low a -350F in cryo service such as liquid N2 and only good to 600F to 700F which limits its automotive use. For higher temps the nickel based is good to 2200F and the copper based is 1800F.

Information and Data on the Lead Anti-Seize:

http://www.armitelabs.com/products/LP250_Anti-Seize_Thread.html

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

>

>> Now thats funny, The first house we bought 17 years ago came with a barn, Nope no barn find GMCs, but among other things was a can of Never Seez.
>> It was probably 3/4 full. Yes it gets on everything, I resorted to an old tooth brush to apply it. I have used that same can over hundreds of
>> jobs, and a dozen vehicles. Im down to my last 1/4. Good stuff and probably made with things that are now banned in most states. Ill be giving
>> that can to my kids along with the GMC in 40 years..... That stuff has been a life saver in the rust belt.
>
>
>
> I have a small container of lead based anit-seize. Great stuff. I wish I could get more. I don't really know if it is better than the copper or
> nickel based products. It does satisfy my "if the EPA banned it, then it must be good stuff" mindset.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[terry1]

Don't use the C-5A on exhaust manifolds...on the Bronco with 3 inch long bolts, I really coated the stems thoroughly and it burned off immediately :?
. Had to pull the motor a month later for a blown seal and the bolts were frozen in the manifold :x . The threads in the head were OK, but the
manifold must have been too much heat for the C-5A So I used the Permatex or NAPA brand (can't see the bottle from here) silver stuff on the GMC
header bolts instead. The header bolts do not get as much heat as manifold bolts, so that is not a direct comparison, and I haven;t taken the headers
off again (yet).
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.

 

[les burt]

In the aviation industry that I work in, we use the nickel based "Never Seez" almost exclusively. The two main reasons being that it is the most compatible with the metals used in the industry, and it has a higher temp rating than most other anti-seize products.

Copper anti-seize is not friendly with certain metals like titanium.

I personally use both the copper and nickel based ant-seize at home, but prefer the nickel on all my exhaust fasteners.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

>
> Don't use the C-5A on exhaust manifolds...on the Bronco with 3 inch long bolts, I really coated the stems thoroughly and it burned off immediately :?
> . Had to pull the motor a month later for a blown seal and the bolts were frozen in the manifold :x . The threads in the head were OK, but the
> manifold must have been too much heat for the C-5A So I used the Permatex or NAPA brand (can't see the bottle from here) silver stuff on the GMC
> header bolts instead. The header bolts do not get as much heat as manifold bolts, so that is not a direct comparison, and I haven;t taken the headers
> off again (yet).
> --
> Terry Kelpien
>
> ASE Master Technician
>
> 73 Glacier 260
>
> Smithfield, Va.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[Ken B]

Many years ago it was illegal to ship C5A to Canada. A friend had me bring 2 cans of it to Alberta for him. Why it was illegal or at least
unavailable is a mystery to me.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[Rob]

Doesn't appear to be any issues sourcing it here now - but I've never used it. I see it in stock from several Canadian sources...

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

>
> Many years ago it was illegal to ship C5A to Canada. A friend had me bring 2 cans of it to Alberta for him. Why it was illegal or at least
> unavailable is a mystery to me.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana

 

[Jim Hupy]

Funny, but Canada usually is a bit behind the curve when it comes to
banning "the good stuff". After the U.S. banned nitrocellulose lacquers due
to airborne solids and solvents, we could still source them as well as the
thinners from Canada. Not so much now, though. Only Synthetic lacquers and
"vari-temp reducers" available here now. No more "2 foot deep" candyapple
red lacquer paint jobs. But, that being said, those old lacquer paint jobs
only lasted a short while, crows foot checks, chips, clouds were part of
the deal. Now, the 3 stage stuff lasts 10 -15 years, doesn't fade or sun
chek. But, it don't look 2 feet deep.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> Doesn't appear to be any issues sourcing it here now - but I've never used
> it. I see it in stock from several Canadian sources...
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>

> >
> > Many years ago it was illegal to ship C5A to Canada. A friend had me
> bring 2 cans of it to Alberta for him. Why it was illegal or at least
> > unavailable is a mystery to me.
> > --
> > Ken Burton - N9KB
> > 76 Palm Beach
> > Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[scott nutter1]

Would the nickel silver anti seize be good for the oil sending unit and the water temp probe?
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater.
Houston, Texas

 

[mark sawyer]

> Would the nickel silver anti seize be good for the oil sending unit and the water temp probe?

For the sending units, I generally use some sort of teflon based thread sealing paste. Never tried anti-seize on those, but I would think it would
not seal...

--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX

 

[Jim Hupy]

Anti seez is for the most part a conductor of electricity. The sending
units need a good ground, and they have tapered threads that are fluid
tight if properly tightened into good threads. Teflon tape, while an
excellent sealant, is a poor conductor, as is Teflon pipe dope. Some of
these old Olds manifolds are getting ragged in the threads from corrosion
and lots of use. That presents a problem in the sealing department when
never seez is used. No perfect answer here, I guess.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> > Would the nickel silver anti seize be good for the oil sending unit and
> the water temp probe?
>
>
> For the sending units, I generally use some sort of teflon based thread
> sealing paste. Never tried anti-seize on those, but I would think it would
> not seal...
>
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Matt Colie]

> Don't use the C-5A on exhaust manifolds...on the Bronco with 3 inch long bolts, I really coated the stems thoroughly and it burned off immediately
> :? . Had to pull the motor a month later for a blown seal and the bolts were frozen in the manifold :x . The threads in the head were OK, but the
> manifold must have been too much heat for the C-5A So I used the Permatex or NAPA brand (can't see the bottle from here) silver stuff on the
> GMC header bolts instead. The header bolts do not get as much heat as manifold bolts, so that is not a direct comparison, and I haven;t taken the
> headers off again (yet).

Terry,

The problem you had was because your C-5a is too new. Just a few years back I bought some new and have since tossd that tube. This was a direct
result of a discussion I had with an industry friend (when I still had some) that worked for the family (Fle-Pro was privately held until recently).
I asked (read as assaulted) him why the good old C-5a was seemed to no longer be as good. He admitted that they had been forced to remove the lead in
the formulation. They tried to replace it with cadmium or zinc and that turned out as poorly as they thought it might.

Matt - Taking a grandson #2 to the museum in Dayton
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[terry1]

Sorry Matt, but it's not new C-5A. This can was given to me back in 1986 when we stopped using it on the Lear Jet wheels because it flew off and got
all over everything (and the brakes!) when the techs used it on the wheel bolts. Supervisor told me to "get that can of stuff off this facility now"
:x . So I took it out and locked it in my car and we used LubTork on the bolts after that. The LubTork is more like toothpaste and kinda difficult to
cover the bolts with, but that was the wheel manufacturer's choice in the first place. Incidentally, there was not supposed to be any anti-seize on
the bolt threads, just on the shoulder that went through the wheel halves.

Still have the can of C-5A, and it's still messy, and it still works well on other fasteners and as a lube on a screw press or puller.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.