This is the third pump that has failed in the last 13 month. And with every failure. I couldn't find a Carter 4070. So I could only get China pumps. This time I had brought a Carter pump with me. And because of this delay. I couldn't get to the track in time for safety inspection. This latest pump got me 210 miles before failure. The Carter got me home. Now this means I can get back to installing my EFI. Bob Dunahugh
Another trip screwed up by another China built electric fuel pump
- Thread starter Bob Dunahugh
- Start date
It is amazing how many warranty claims were having with these import part
from RED China.
Really upsets me when we have labor to eat as warranty does not cover labor
and we need to absorb it.
> This is the third pump that has failed in the last 13 month. And with
> every failure. I couldn't find a Carter 4070. So I could only get China
> pumps. This time I had brought a Carter pump with me. And because of this
> delay. I couldn't get to the track in time for safety inspection. This
> latest pump got me 210 miles before failure. The Carter got me home. Now
> this means I can get back to installing my EFI. Bob Dunahugh
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
from RED China.
Really upsets me when we have labor to eat as warranty does not cover labor
and we need to absorb it.
> This is the third pump that has failed in the last 13 month. And with
> every failure. I couldn't find a Carter 4070. So I could only get China
> pumps. This time I had brought a Carter pump with me. And because of this
> delay. I couldn't get to the track in time for safety inspection. This
> latest pump got me 210 miles before failure. The Carter got me home. Now
> this means I can get back to installing my EFI. Bob Dunahugh
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
What pump keeps failing?
I'm running a Mr gasket with over 5000 miles on it so far. I've got a 4070 to replace it when it goes but it hasn't yet.
So did you not get to race? That sucks!
--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
I'm running a Mr gasket with over 5000 miles on it so far. I've got a 4070 to replace it when it goes but it hasn't yet.
So did you not get to race? That sucks!
--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
Not to pick nits, but I must. When your Chinese part fails, the cause of that failure is not the nation of China, it's on the (usually
American) company whose name is on the box who specced out a sub-par component. That component doesn't cost half as much because it's made in China,
it costs half as much because the importer has provided cheap specs and figured it can pass the blame when the thing fails.
If you have a component failure, don't tell us it's a Chinese part, tell us it's a Mr Gasket or a Duralast or a whomever's name is on the box. If you
don't hold the *importer* accountable for their own reputation, you won't effect any change in quality.
--
77 Birchaven 23 w/ 455
Reno, NV
American) company whose name is on the box who specced out a sub-par component. That component doesn't cost half as much because it's made in China,
it costs half as much because the importer has provided cheap specs and figured it can pass the blame when the thing fails.
If you have a component failure, don't tell us it's a Chinese part, tell us it's a Mr Gasket or a Duralast or a whomever's name is on the box. If you
don't hold the *importer* accountable for their own reputation, you won't effect any change in quality.
--
77 Birchaven 23 w/ 455
Reno, NV
Last edited by a moderator:
Misnomer,
You are partly correct, but only partly at best.
AT one time, I had a lot of involvement with "China Jeep". Jeep was not allowed to have inspectors of other bodies on site with any responsibility
for product quality. We (Jeep) frequently got complaints form Pacific Rim places about poor quality. When we asked for test results of quality
audits or durability testing, everything came out as close to the middle of a distribution as you could hope. This just can't happen. It is like the
voting in Philadelphia where there were Zero votes for any republicans. When I asked for a batch of parts to test, I got a batch of parts that had
already been tested before they were shipped. When I got a batch of parts from an dealer over there (the actual location escapes me), the failure
rate was unacceptable. The people I tried to communicate with about this suddenly had language difficulty. Boeing, Airbus, Gulfstream, General
Electric, and Pratt & Whitney all use parts from China, but I know that either they either have inspectors (non-Chinese company employees in the case
of GE at least) or the parts are run though a final inspection before they are used in production. It simply is that nobody in the manufacturing
world trusts the Chinese to reliably produce quality products and bargain prices.
So Yes, if your Mr. Gasket pump craps out, you can blame Mr. Gasket. But the very real case is that they may have been given a bill of goods by the
supplier. Most of these things are trackable. So, if you register a complaint with your supplier, you may get some relief (not everybody is like
Applied) (and will have still missed the race for all the Fking good that goes), but you have also made them and everybody else in your circle aware
of the quality issue.
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
You are partly correct, but only partly at best.
AT one time, I had a lot of involvement with "China Jeep". Jeep was not allowed to have inspectors of other bodies on site with any responsibility
for product quality. We (Jeep) frequently got complaints form Pacific Rim places about poor quality. When we asked for test results of quality
audits or durability testing, everything came out as close to the middle of a distribution as you could hope. This just can't happen. It is like the
voting in Philadelphia where there were Zero votes for any republicans. When I asked for a batch of parts to test, I got a batch of parts that had
already been tested before they were shipped. When I got a batch of parts from an dealer over there (the actual location escapes me), the failure
rate was unacceptable. The people I tried to communicate with about this suddenly had language difficulty. Boeing, Airbus, Gulfstream, General
Electric, and Pratt & Whitney all use parts from China, but I know that either they either have inspectors (non-Chinese company employees in the case
of GE at least) or the parts are run though a final inspection before they are used in production. It simply is that nobody in the manufacturing
world trusts the Chinese to reliably produce quality products and bargain prices.
So Yes, if your Mr. Gasket pump craps out, you can blame Mr. Gasket. But the very real case is that they may have been given a bill of goods by the
supplier. Most of these things are trackable. So, if you register a complaint with your supplier, you may get some relief (not everybody is like
Applied) (and will have still missed the race for all the Fking good that goes), but you have also made them and everybody else in your circle aware
of the quality issue.
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> This is the third pump that has failed in the last 13 month. And with every failure. I couldn't find a Carter 4070. So I could only get China
> pumps. This time I had brought a Carter pump with me. And because of this delay. I couldn't get to the track in time for safety inspection. This
> latest pump got me 210 miles before failure. The Carter got me home. Now this means I can get back to installing my EFI. Bob Dunahugh
Bob,
Can I ask who it was that supplied the Chinese pumps and what model they were?
I don't need to have your experience.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> pumps. This time I had brought a Carter pump with me. And because of this delay. I couldn't get to the track in time for safety inspection. This
> latest pump got me 210 miles before failure. The Carter got me home. Now this means I can get back to installing my EFI. Bob Dunahugh
Bob,
Can I ask who it was that supplied the Chinese pumps and what model they were?
I don't need to have your experience.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
G'day,
As most of you know I worked for the Hamilton Standard Division of The United Technologies Corporation as a Field Service Rep and
was based in Hong Kong from 1991 to 1999. I visited all the Chinese airlines in existence at that time quarterly. While I saw some
nightmare practices when the Chinese were left to their own devices there were products that were as good as any made anywhere in
the world. The following is what I KNOW about manufacturing in China during that time period. Obviously I don't know what is
happening in 2017.
1) When an American aircraft company sold an aircraft to China the Chinese required offset credits. They had to buy product to the
value of 15% of the contract. For example if Boeing sold them a Boeing 747-400 (price around $150,000,000 at the time) they had to
buy $22,250,000 worth of Chinese products. In Boeings case to meet this requirement they set up a production line for the B737
vertical stabilizer at the Xian Aircraft Factory (XAC) in Xian, China. The shipped ALL the tools and equipment to produce part. They
then shipped ALL the materials to produce the part including rough forgings that needed to be CNC machined. They had a team of
Boeing personnel on site that managed the process that duplicated the methods and procedures used in the USA (or anyplace else their
parts were manufactured). I saw the results of this process and the parts were as good as any US made products. Think about it for a
moment, do you think Boeing would build aircraft with sub standard parts?
2) British Aerospace (BAE) sold the BAE-146 to China, the entered into a deal with the Harbin Aircraft Company HAC) to produce the
doors for the aircraft as an offset. The first lot was for 10 ship sets (a ship set is all the door required to build one aircraft).
I don't know if BAE provided HAC with the tools and materials as Boeing. I do know that when BAE went to Harbin to inspect the 10
ship sets they rejected a significant number of the doors. HAC wanted BAE to pay them for the good doors and they would fix the
rejected doors. BAE refused telling the Chinese that Chinese airlines wanted doors on the aircraft when BAE delivered them.
3) The XAC built a copy of the Fokker F-27 called the Yun-7 (regional / commuter aircraft with a high wing and turbo prop engine).
They wanted to sell them to the world but no one was interested, the airframe was fine but the systems sucked. They went to Pratt &
Whitney, Hamilton Standard, Bendix, Parker Hannifin, etc. and bought systems to replace the Chinese systems. When we proposed
selling them a composite propeller that went 6000 hours time between overhaul (TBO) they said that was IMPOSSIBLE we couldn't build
a propeller that went that many hours! We assured them they would (HS makes the props for the DeHavilland Dash 7, Dash 8, Avion
Transport Regional ATR-42 & -72, Casa Nurtanio CN-235, and Saab Fairchild SF-340 and they all had props that had a 6000 TBO). We
asked what the TBO was for the Chinese props on the Yun-7 was and were informed 600 hours. NO WONDER they didn't believe SIX
THOUSAND HOURS! The same scenario existed for the engines; however, I don't remember the TBO on the engine but it was laughable.
4) Lufthansa went into partnership with Air China to set up an aircraft maintenance company, it was called Ameco-Beijing. Talk about
a marriage NOT made in heaven. I am of German descent and speak German, whenever I would visit the Germans would tell me stories of
things the Chinese did that would make your hair stand on end.
5) I was visiting China Northern Airlines in Shenyang and stopped by the GE Reps office. He had a massive snap ring sitting on his
desk and since I had never seen one as large I asked him about it. He noted it went around the main shaft of a GE engine and was
part of the system that held the main shaft together. He handed it to me and told me to look it over and note what I saw. I did so
and said it seemed a bit rough. He then said 'well that's because China Northern engineering made it themselves because the genuine
GE part was too expensive!"
6) During the same visit McDonnell Douglas had a team in Shenyang repairing a DC-9 that a Chinese pilot had run the wing tip into
the ground (I don't know how he did it). One of the Chinese engineers came up to them and told them that their company built poor
quality aircraft. They asked him why he said that and he told them that they "bend." Obviously this created concern so they asked
him for more details. He took them over to a DC-9 and showed them that the skin was all wrinkled near the tail. They thanked him for
showing them the "poor quality aircraft" and called the local rep over to the aircraft to show him the "poor quality aircraft." The
bottom line is that aircraft had undergone an EXTREMELY hard landing. The local rep went through the aircraft log book but couldn't
find any reports of a hard landing (which is required). He did find an entry noting that all the tires had been changed a couple of
weeks previously. The hard landing was not reported because the pilot would have "lost face."
7) Along with the visiting the airlines I'd check out the local tourist spots plus I would have taxi drivers take me to where they
sold tools and hardware. I needed an impact drill because the house in Hong Kong was poured concrete. I found a Hitachi brand drill
for around $100 US. Sitting right next to it was a Hit brand drill that looked EXACTLY like the Hitachi the only difference was the
color of the plastic housing. It was $50. I asked some contacts I had in Hong Kong that worked for companies that purchased tools
and equipment from China and they advised that they would contract for 1000 pieces and the Chinese would make more and sell them on
the local market and some of them would find their way out of China. I asked why they put up with that kind of monkey business and
they all said that it was a common practice and if you terminate the contract they continue to make them anyway and the new
manufacturer would probably do the same and good luck suing them in a Chinese court!
8) I visited the Guangzhou (Canton) Trade fair yearly from 1991 to 1999 and noted that the quality of the tools improved
consistently. They figgered out the better the tools were made the more money they could get for them.
I may be returning to China in October for a 10 day tour, I'm looking forward to seeing the changes. I think I might just do some
tool shopping as well, as most of you know you NEVER have enough tools!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
As most of you know I worked for the Hamilton Standard Division of The United Technologies Corporation as a Field Service Rep and
was based in Hong Kong from 1991 to 1999. I visited all the Chinese airlines in existence at that time quarterly. While I saw some
nightmare practices when the Chinese were left to their own devices there were products that were as good as any made anywhere in
the world. The following is what I KNOW about manufacturing in China during that time period. Obviously I don't know what is
happening in 2017.
1) When an American aircraft company sold an aircraft to China the Chinese required offset credits. They had to buy product to the
value of 15% of the contract. For example if Boeing sold them a Boeing 747-400 (price around $150,000,000 at the time) they had to
buy $22,250,000 worth of Chinese products. In Boeings case to meet this requirement they set up a production line for the B737
vertical stabilizer at the Xian Aircraft Factory (XAC) in Xian, China. The shipped ALL the tools and equipment to produce part. They
then shipped ALL the materials to produce the part including rough forgings that needed to be CNC machined. They had a team of
Boeing personnel on site that managed the process that duplicated the methods and procedures used in the USA (or anyplace else their
parts were manufactured). I saw the results of this process and the parts were as good as any US made products. Think about it for a
moment, do you think Boeing would build aircraft with sub standard parts?
2) British Aerospace (BAE) sold the BAE-146 to China, the entered into a deal with the Harbin Aircraft Company HAC) to produce the
doors for the aircraft as an offset. The first lot was for 10 ship sets (a ship set is all the door required to build one aircraft).
I don't know if BAE provided HAC with the tools and materials as Boeing. I do know that when BAE went to Harbin to inspect the 10
ship sets they rejected a significant number of the doors. HAC wanted BAE to pay them for the good doors and they would fix the
rejected doors. BAE refused telling the Chinese that Chinese airlines wanted doors on the aircraft when BAE delivered them.
3) The XAC built a copy of the Fokker F-27 called the Yun-7 (regional / commuter aircraft with a high wing and turbo prop engine).
They wanted to sell them to the world but no one was interested, the airframe was fine but the systems sucked. They went to Pratt &
Whitney, Hamilton Standard, Bendix, Parker Hannifin, etc. and bought systems to replace the Chinese systems. When we proposed
selling them a composite propeller that went 6000 hours time between overhaul (TBO) they said that was IMPOSSIBLE we couldn't build
a propeller that went that many hours! We assured them they would (HS makes the props for the DeHavilland Dash 7, Dash 8, Avion
Transport Regional ATR-42 & -72, Casa Nurtanio CN-235, and Saab Fairchild SF-340 and they all had props that had a 6000 TBO). We
asked what the TBO was for the Chinese props on the Yun-7 was and were informed 600 hours. NO WONDER they didn't believe SIX
THOUSAND HOURS! The same scenario existed for the engines; however, I don't remember the TBO on the engine but it was laughable.
4) Lufthansa went into partnership with Air China to set up an aircraft maintenance company, it was called Ameco-Beijing. Talk about
a marriage NOT made in heaven. I am of German descent and speak German, whenever I would visit the Germans would tell me stories of
things the Chinese did that would make your hair stand on end.
5) I was visiting China Northern Airlines in Shenyang and stopped by the GE Reps office. He had a massive snap ring sitting on his
desk and since I had never seen one as large I asked him about it. He noted it went around the main shaft of a GE engine and was
part of the system that held the main shaft together. He handed it to me and told me to look it over and note what I saw. I did so
and said it seemed a bit rough. He then said 'well that's because China Northern engineering made it themselves because the genuine
GE part was too expensive!"
6) During the same visit McDonnell Douglas had a team in Shenyang repairing a DC-9 that a Chinese pilot had run the wing tip into
the ground (I don't know how he did it). One of the Chinese engineers came up to them and told them that their company built poor
quality aircraft. They asked him why he said that and he told them that they "bend." Obviously this created concern so they asked
him for more details. He took them over to a DC-9 and showed them that the skin was all wrinkled near the tail. They thanked him for
showing them the "poor quality aircraft" and called the local rep over to the aircraft to show him the "poor quality aircraft." The
bottom line is that aircraft had undergone an EXTREMELY hard landing. The local rep went through the aircraft log book but couldn't
find any reports of a hard landing (which is required). He did find an entry noting that all the tires had been changed a couple of
weeks previously. The hard landing was not reported because the pilot would have "lost face."
7) Along with the visiting the airlines I'd check out the local tourist spots plus I would have taxi drivers take me to where they
sold tools and hardware. I needed an impact drill because the house in Hong Kong was poured concrete. I found a Hitachi brand drill
for around $100 US. Sitting right next to it was a Hit brand drill that looked EXACTLY like the Hitachi the only difference was the
color of the plastic housing. It was $50. I asked some contacts I had in Hong Kong that worked for companies that purchased tools
and equipment from China and they advised that they would contract for 1000 pieces and the Chinese would make more and sell them on
the local market and some of them would find their way out of China. I asked why they put up with that kind of monkey business and
they all said that it was a common practice and if you terminate the contract they continue to make them anyway and the new
manufacturer would probably do the same and good luck suing them in a Chinese court!
8) I visited the Guangzhou (Canton) Trade fair yearly from 1991 to 1999 and noted that the quality of the tools improved
consistently. They figgered out the better the tools were made the more money they could get for them.
I may be returning to China in October for a 10 day tour, I'm looking forward to seeing the changes. I think I might just do some
tool shopping as well, as most of you know you NEVER have enough tools!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
Rob,
I have heard stories, but since your telling it, It is more convincing.
Thanks,
On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:29 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:
> G'day,
>
> As most of you know I worked for the Hamilton Standard Division of The
> United Technologies Corporation as a Field Service Rep and
> was based in Hong Kong from 1991 to 1999. I visited all the Chinese
> airlines in existence at that time quarterly. While I saw some
> nightmare practices when the Chinese were left to their own devices there
> were products that were as good as any made anywhere in
> the world. The following is what I KNOW about manufacturing in China
> during that time period. Obviously I don't know what is
> happening in 2017.
>
> 1) When an American aircraft company sold an aircraft to China the Chinese
> required offset credits. They had to buy product to the
> value of 15% of the contract. For example if Boeing sold them a Boeing
> 747-400 (price around $150,000,000 at the time) they had to
> buy $22,250,000 worth of Chinese products. In Boeings case to meet this
> requirement they set up a production line for the B737
> vertical stabilizer at the Xian Aircraft Factory (XAC) in Xian, China. The
> shipped ALL the tools and equipment to produce part. They
> then shipped ALL the materials to produce the part including rough
> forgings that needed to be CNC machined. They had a team of
> Boeing personnel on site that managed the process that duplicated the
> methods and procedures used in the USA (or anyplace else their
> parts were manufactured). I saw the results of this process and the parts
> were as good as any US made products. Think about it for a
> moment, do you think Boeing would build aircraft with sub standard parts?
>
> 2) British Aerospace (BAE) sold the BAE-146 to China, the entered into a
> deal with the Harbin Aircraft Company HAC) to produce the
> doors for the aircraft as an offset. The first lot was for 10 ship sets (a
> ship set is all the door required to build one aircraft).
> I don't know if BAE provided HAC with the tools and materials as Boeing. I
> do know that when BAE went to Harbin to inspect the 10
> ship sets they rejected a significant number of the doors. HAC wanted BAE
> to pay them for the good doors and they would fix the
> rejected doors. BAE refused telling the Chinese that Chinese airlines
> wanted doors on the aircraft when BAE delivered them.
>
> 3) The XAC built a copy of the Fokker F-27 called the Yun-7 (regional /
> commuter aircraft with a high wing and turbo prop engine).
> They wanted to sell them to the world but no one was interested, the
> airframe was fine but the systems sucked. They went to Pratt &
> Whitney, Hamilton Standard, Bendix, Parker Hannifin, etc. and bought
> systems to replace the Chinese systems. When we proposed
> selling them a composite propeller that went 6000 hours time between
> overhaul (TBO) they said that was IMPOSSIBLE we couldn't build
> a propeller that went that many hours! We assured them they would (HS
> makes the props for the DeHavilland Dash 7, Dash 8, Avion
> Transport Regional ATR-42 & -72, Casa Nurtanio CN-235, and Saab Fairchild
> SF-340 and they all had props that had a 6000 TBO). We
> asked what the TBO was for the Chinese props on the Yun-7 was and were
> informed 600 hours. NO WONDER they didn't believe SIX
> THOUSAND HOURS! The same scenario existed for the engines; however, I
> don't remember the TBO on the engine but it was laughable.
>
> 4) Lufthansa went into partnership with Air China to set up an aircraft
> maintenance company, it was called Ameco-Beijing. Talk about
> a marriage NOT made in heaven. I am of German descent and speak German,
> whenever I would visit the Germans would tell me stories of
> things the Chinese did that would make your hair stand on end.
>
> 5) I was visiting China Northern Airlines in Shenyang and stopped by the
> GE Reps office. He had a massive snap ring sitting on his
> desk and since I had never seen one as large I asked him about it. He
> noted it went around the main shaft of a GE engine and was
> part of the system that held the main shaft together. He handed it to me
> and told me to look it over and note what I saw. I did so
> and said it seemed a bit rough. He then said 'well that's because China
> Northern engineering made it themselves because the genuine
> GE part was too expensive!"
>
> 6) During the same visit McDonnell Douglas had a team in Shenyang
> repairing a DC-9 that a Chinese pilot had run the wing tip into
> the ground (I don't know how he did it). One of the Chinese engineers came
> up to them and told them that their company built poor
> quality aircraft. They asked him why he said that and he told them that
> they "bend." Obviously this created concern so they asked
> him for more details. He took them over to a DC-9 and showed them that the
> skin was all wrinkled near the tail. They thanked him for
> showing them the "poor quality aircraft" and called the local rep over to
> the aircraft to show him the "poor quality aircraft." The
> bottom line is that aircraft had undergone an EXTREMELY hard landing. The
> local rep went through the aircraft log book but couldn't
> find any reports of a hard landing (which is required). He did find an
> entry noting that all the tires had been changed a couple of
> weeks previously. The hard landing was not reported because the pilot
> would have "lost face."
>
> 7) Along with the visiting the airlines I'd check out the local tourist
> spots plus I would have taxi drivers take me to where they
> sold tools and hardware. I needed an impact drill because the house in
> Hong Kong was poured concrete. I found a Hitachi brand drill
> for around $100 US. Sitting right next to it was a Hit brand drill that
> looked EXACTLY like the Hitachi the only difference was the
> color of the plastic housing. It was $50. I asked some contacts I had in
> Hong Kong that worked for companies that purchased tools
> and equipment from China and they advised that they would contract for
> 1000 pieces and the Chinese would make more and sell them on
> the local market and some of them would find their way out of China. I
> asked why they put up with that kind of monkey business and
> they all said that it was a common practice and if you terminate the
> contract they continue to make them anyway and the new
> manufacturer would probably do the same and good luck suing them in a
> Chinese court!
>
> 8) I visited the Guangzhou (Canton) Trade fair yearly from 1991 to 1999
> and noted that the quality of the tools improved
> consistently. They figgered out the better the tools were made the more
> money they could get for them.
>
> I may be returning to China in October for a 10 day tour, I'm looking
> forward to seeing the changes. I think I might just do some
> tool shopping as well, as most of you know you NEVER have enough tools!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
I have heard stories, but since your telling it, It is more convincing.
Thanks,
On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:29 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:
> G'day,
>
> As most of you know I worked for the Hamilton Standard Division of The
> United Technologies Corporation as a Field Service Rep and
> was based in Hong Kong from 1991 to 1999. I visited all the Chinese
> airlines in existence at that time quarterly. While I saw some
> nightmare practices when the Chinese were left to their own devices there
> were products that were as good as any made anywhere in
> the world. The following is what I KNOW about manufacturing in China
> during that time period. Obviously I don't know what is
> happening in 2017.
>
> 1) When an American aircraft company sold an aircraft to China the Chinese
> required offset credits. They had to buy product to the
> value of 15% of the contract. For example if Boeing sold them a Boeing
> 747-400 (price around $150,000,000 at the time) they had to
> buy $22,250,000 worth of Chinese products. In Boeings case to meet this
> requirement they set up a production line for the B737
> vertical stabilizer at the Xian Aircraft Factory (XAC) in Xian, China. The
> shipped ALL the tools and equipment to produce part. They
> then shipped ALL the materials to produce the part including rough
> forgings that needed to be CNC machined. They had a team of
> Boeing personnel on site that managed the process that duplicated the
> methods and procedures used in the USA (or anyplace else their
> parts were manufactured). I saw the results of this process and the parts
> were as good as any US made products. Think about it for a
> moment, do you think Boeing would build aircraft with sub standard parts?
>
> 2) British Aerospace (BAE) sold the BAE-146 to China, the entered into a
> deal with the Harbin Aircraft Company HAC) to produce the
> doors for the aircraft as an offset. The first lot was for 10 ship sets (a
> ship set is all the door required to build one aircraft).
> I don't know if BAE provided HAC with the tools and materials as Boeing. I
> do know that when BAE went to Harbin to inspect the 10
> ship sets they rejected a significant number of the doors. HAC wanted BAE
> to pay them for the good doors and they would fix the
> rejected doors. BAE refused telling the Chinese that Chinese airlines
> wanted doors on the aircraft when BAE delivered them.
>
> 3) The XAC built a copy of the Fokker F-27 called the Yun-7 (regional /
> commuter aircraft with a high wing and turbo prop engine).
> They wanted to sell them to the world but no one was interested, the
> airframe was fine but the systems sucked. They went to Pratt &
> Whitney, Hamilton Standard, Bendix, Parker Hannifin, etc. and bought
> systems to replace the Chinese systems. When we proposed
> selling them a composite propeller that went 6000 hours time between
> overhaul (TBO) they said that was IMPOSSIBLE we couldn't build
> a propeller that went that many hours! We assured them they would (HS
> makes the props for the DeHavilland Dash 7, Dash 8, Avion
> Transport Regional ATR-42 & -72, Casa Nurtanio CN-235, and Saab Fairchild
> SF-340 and they all had props that had a 6000 TBO). We
> asked what the TBO was for the Chinese props on the Yun-7 was and were
> informed 600 hours. NO WONDER they didn't believe SIX
> THOUSAND HOURS! The same scenario existed for the engines; however, I
> don't remember the TBO on the engine but it was laughable.
>
> 4) Lufthansa went into partnership with Air China to set up an aircraft
> maintenance company, it was called Ameco-Beijing. Talk about
> a marriage NOT made in heaven. I am of German descent and speak German,
> whenever I would visit the Germans would tell me stories of
> things the Chinese did that would make your hair stand on end.
>
> 5) I was visiting China Northern Airlines in Shenyang and stopped by the
> GE Reps office. He had a massive snap ring sitting on his
> desk and since I had never seen one as large I asked him about it. He
> noted it went around the main shaft of a GE engine and was
> part of the system that held the main shaft together. He handed it to me
> and told me to look it over and note what I saw. I did so
> and said it seemed a bit rough. He then said 'well that's because China
> Northern engineering made it themselves because the genuine
> GE part was too expensive!"
>
> 6) During the same visit McDonnell Douglas had a team in Shenyang
> repairing a DC-9 that a Chinese pilot had run the wing tip into
> the ground (I don't know how he did it). One of the Chinese engineers came
> up to them and told them that their company built poor
> quality aircraft. They asked him why he said that and he told them that
> they "bend." Obviously this created concern so they asked
> him for more details. He took them over to a DC-9 and showed them that the
> skin was all wrinkled near the tail. They thanked him for
> showing them the "poor quality aircraft" and called the local rep over to
> the aircraft to show him the "poor quality aircraft." The
> bottom line is that aircraft had undergone an EXTREMELY hard landing. The
> local rep went through the aircraft log book but couldn't
> find any reports of a hard landing (which is required). He did find an
> entry noting that all the tires had been changed a couple of
> weeks previously. The hard landing was not reported because the pilot
> would have "lost face."
>
> 7) Along with the visiting the airlines I'd check out the local tourist
> spots plus I would have taxi drivers take me to where they
> sold tools and hardware. I needed an impact drill because the house in
> Hong Kong was poured concrete. I found a Hitachi brand drill
> for around $100 US. Sitting right next to it was a Hit brand drill that
> looked EXACTLY like the Hitachi the only difference was the
> color of the plastic housing. It was $50. I asked some contacts I had in
> Hong Kong that worked for companies that purchased tools
> and equipment from China and they advised that they would contract for
> 1000 pieces and the Chinese would make more and sell them on
> the local market and some of them would find their way out of China. I
> asked why they put up with that kind of monkey business and
> they all said that it was a common practice and if you terminate the
> contract they continue to make them anyway and the new
> manufacturer would probably do the same and good luck suing them in a
> Chinese court!
>
> 8) I visited the Guangzhou (Canton) Trade fair yearly from 1991 to 1999
> and noted that the quality of the tools improved
> consistently. They figgered out the better the tools were made the more
> money they could get for them.
>
> I may be returning to China in October for a 10 day tour, I'm looking
> forward to seeing the changes. I think I might just do some
> tool shopping as well, as most of you know you NEVER have enough tools!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Rob,
I think we could exchange at least a days worth of Chinese stories that involve aviation. I work for Rolls Royce and as a company, we have experienced some pretty bizarre encounters with the Chinese. They have no limits as far as what they will attempt to copy, cheapen, and try to sell back to the people they stole from.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
>
> Rob,
> I have heard stories, but since your telling it, It is more convincing.
> Thanks,
>
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:29 PM, Rob Mueller
>
>> G'day,
>>
>> As most of you know I worked for the Hamilton Standard Division of The
>> United Technologies Corporation as a Field Service Rep and
>> was based in Hong Kong from 1991 to 1999. I visited all the Chinese
>> airlines in existence at that time quarterly. While I saw some
>> nightmare practices when the Chinese were left to their own devices there
>> were products that were as good as any made anywhere in
>> the world. The following is what I KNOW about manufacturing in China
>> during that time period. Obviously I don't know what is
>> happening in 2017.
>>
>> 1) When an American aircraft company sold an aircraft to China the Chinese
>> required offset credits. They had to buy product to the
>> value of 15% of the contract. For example if Boeing sold them a Boeing
>> 747-400 (price around $150,000,000 at the time) they had to
>> buy $22,250,000 worth of Chinese products. In Boeings case to meet this
>> requirement they set up a production line for the B737
>> vertical stabilizer at the Xian Aircraft Factory (XAC) in Xian, China. The
>> shipped ALL the tools and equipment to produce part. They
>> then shipped ALL the materials to produce the part including rough
>> forgings that needed to be CNC machined. They had a team of
>> Boeing personnel on site that managed the process that duplicated the
>> methods and procedures used in the USA (or anyplace else their
>> parts were manufactured). I saw the results of this process and the parts
>> were as good as any US made products. Think about it for a
>> moment, do you think Boeing would build aircraft with sub standard parts?
>>
>> 2) British Aerospace (BAE) sold the BAE-146 to China, the entered into a
>> deal with the Harbin Aircraft Company HAC) to produce the
>> doors for the aircraft as an offset. The first lot was for 10 ship sets (a
>> ship set is all the door required to build one aircraft).
>> I don't know if BAE provided HAC with the tools and materials as Boeing. I
>> do know that when BAE went to Harbin to inspect the 10
>> ship sets they rejected a significant number of the doors. HAC wanted BAE
>> to pay them for the good doors and they would fix the
>> rejected doors. BAE refused telling the Chinese that Chinese airlines
>> wanted doors on the aircraft when BAE delivered them.
>>
>> 3) The XAC built a copy of the Fokker F-27 called the Yun-7 (regional /
>> commuter aircraft with a high wing and turbo prop engine).
>> They wanted to sell them to the world but no one was interested, the
>> airframe was fine but the systems sucked. They went to Pratt &
>> Whitney, Hamilton Standard, Bendix, Parker Hannifin, etc. and bought
>> systems to replace the Chinese systems. When we proposed
>> selling them a composite propeller that went 6000 hours time between
>> overhaul (TBO) they said that was IMPOSSIBLE we couldn't build
>> a propeller that went that many hours! We assured them they would (HS
>> makes the props for the DeHavilland Dash 7, Dash 8, Avion
>> Transport Regional ATR-42 & -72, Casa Nurtanio CN-235, and Saab Fairchild
>> SF-340 and they all had props that had a 6000 TBO). We
>> asked what the TBO was for the Chinese props on the Yun-7 was and were
>> informed 600 hours. NO WONDER they didn't believe SIX
>> THOUSAND HOURS! The same scenario existed for the engines; however, I
>> don't remember the TBO on the engine but it was laughable.
>>
>> 4) Lufthansa went into partnership with Air China to set up an aircraft
>> maintenance company, it was called Ameco-Beijing. Talk about
>> a marriage NOT made in heaven. I am of German descent and speak German,
>> whenever I would visit the Germans would tell me stories of
>> things the Chinese did that would make your hair stand on end.
>>
>> 5) I was visiting China Northern Airlines in Shenyang and stopped by the
>> GE Reps office. He had a massive snap ring sitting on his
>> desk and since I had never seen one as large I asked him about it. He
>> noted it went around the main shaft of a GE engine and was
>> part of the system that held the main shaft together. He handed it to me
>> and told me to look it over and note what I saw. I did so
>> and said it seemed a bit rough. He then said 'well that's because China
>> Northern engineering made it themselves because the genuine
>> GE part was too expensive!"
>>
>> 6) During the same visit McDonnell Douglas had a team in Shenyang
>> repairing a DC-9 that a Chinese pilot had run the wing tip into
>> the ground (I don't know how he did it). One of the Chinese engineers came
>> up to them and told them that their company built poor
>> quality aircraft. They asked him why he said that and he told them that
>> they "bend." Obviously this created concern so they asked
>> him for more details. He took them over to a DC-9 and showed them that the
>> skin was all wrinkled near the tail. They thanked him for
>> showing them the "poor quality aircraft" and called the local rep over to
>> the aircraft to show him the "poor quality aircraft." The
>> bottom line is that aircraft had undergone an EXTREMELY hard landing. The
>> local rep went through the aircraft log book but couldn't
>> find any reports of a hard landing (which is required). He did find an
>> entry noting that all the tires had been changed a couple of
>> weeks previously. The hard landing was not reported because the pilot
>> would have "lost face."
>>
>> 7) Along with the visiting the airlines I'd check out the local tourist
>> spots plus I would have taxi drivers take me to where they
>> sold tools and hardware. I needed an impact drill because the house in
>> Hong Kong was poured concrete. I found a Hitachi brand drill
>> for around $100 US. Sitting right next to it was a Hit brand drill that
>> looked EXACTLY like the Hitachi the only difference was the
>> color of the plastic housing. It was $50. I asked some contacts I had in
>> Hong Kong that worked for companies that purchased tools
>> and equipment from China and they advised that they would contract for
>> 1000 pieces and the Chinese would make more and sell them on
>> the local market and some of them would find their way out of China. I
>> asked why they put up with that kind of monkey business and
>> they all said that it was a common practice and if you terminate the
>> contract they continue to make them anyway and the new
>> manufacturer would probably do the same and good luck suing them in a
>> Chinese court!
>>
>> 8) I visited the Guangzhou (Canton) Trade fair yearly from 1991 to 1999
>> and noted that the quality of the tools improved
>> consistently. They figgered out the better the tools were made the more
>> money they could get for them.
>>
>> I may be returning to China in October for a 10 day tour, I'm looking
>> forward to seeing the changes. I think I might just do some
>> tool shopping as well, as most of you know you NEVER have enough tools!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> Sydney, Australia
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
I think we could exchange at least a days worth of Chinese stories that involve aviation. I work for Rolls Royce and as a company, we have experienced some pretty bizarre encounters with the Chinese. They have no limits as far as what they will attempt to copy, cheapen, and try to sell back to the people they stole from.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
>
> Rob,
> I have heard stories, but since your telling it, It is more convincing.
> Thanks,
>
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:29 PM, Rob Mueller
>
>> G'day,
>>
>> As most of you know I worked for the Hamilton Standard Division of The
>> United Technologies Corporation as a Field Service Rep and
>> was based in Hong Kong from 1991 to 1999. I visited all the Chinese
>> airlines in existence at that time quarterly. While I saw some
>> nightmare practices when the Chinese were left to their own devices there
>> were products that were as good as any made anywhere in
>> the world. The following is what I KNOW about manufacturing in China
>> during that time period. Obviously I don't know what is
>> happening in 2017.
>>
>> 1) When an American aircraft company sold an aircraft to China the Chinese
>> required offset credits. They had to buy product to the
>> value of 15% of the contract. For example if Boeing sold them a Boeing
>> 747-400 (price around $150,000,000 at the time) they had to
>> buy $22,250,000 worth of Chinese products. In Boeings case to meet this
>> requirement they set up a production line for the B737
>> vertical stabilizer at the Xian Aircraft Factory (XAC) in Xian, China. The
>> shipped ALL the tools and equipment to produce part. They
>> then shipped ALL the materials to produce the part including rough
>> forgings that needed to be CNC machined. They had a team of
>> Boeing personnel on site that managed the process that duplicated the
>> methods and procedures used in the USA (or anyplace else their
>> parts were manufactured). I saw the results of this process and the parts
>> were as good as any US made products. Think about it for a
>> moment, do you think Boeing would build aircraft with sub standard parts?
>>
>> 2) British Aerospace (BAE) sold the BAE-146 to China, the entered into a
>> deal with the Harbin Aircraft Company HAC) to produce the
>> doors for the aircraft as an offset. The first lot was for 10 ship sets (a
>> ship set is all the door required to build one aircraft).
>> I don't know if BAE provided HAC with the tools and materials as Boeing. I
>> do know that when BAE went to Harbin to inspect the 10
>> ship sets they rejected a significant number of the doors. HAC wanted BAE
>> to pay them for the good doors and they would fix the
>> rejected doors. BAE refused telling the Chinese that Chinese airlines
>> wanted doors on the aircraft when BAE delivered them.
>>
>> 3) The XAC built a copy of the Fokker F-27 called the Yun-7 (regional /
>> commuter aircraft with a high wing and turbo prop engine).
>> They wanted to sell them to the world but no one was interested, the
>> airframe was fine but the systems sucked. They went to Pratt &
>> Whitney, Hamilton Standard, Bendix, Parker Hannifin, etc. and bought
>> systems to replace the Chinese systems. When we proposed
>> selling them a composite propeller that went 6000 hours time between
>> overhaul (TBO) they said that was IMPOSSIBLE we couldn't build
>> a propeller that went that many hours! We assured them they would (HS
>> makes the props for the DeHavilland Dash 7, Dash 8, Avion
>> Transport Regional ATR-42 & -72, Casa Nurtanio CN-235, and Saab Fairchild
>> SF-340 and they all had props that had a 6000 TBO). We
>> asked what the TBO was for the Chinese props on the Yun-7 was and were
>> informed 600 hours. NO WONDER they didn't believe SIX
>> THOUSAND HOURS! The same scenario existed for the engines; however, I
>> don't remember the TBO on the engine but it was laughable.
>>
>> 4) Lufthansa went into partnership with Air China to set up an aircraft
>> maintenance company, it was called Ameco-Beijing. Talk about
>> a marriage NOT made in heaven. I am of German descent and speak German,
>> whenever I would visit the Germans would tell me stories of
>> things the Chinese did that would make your hair stand on end.
>>
>> 5) I was visiting China Northern Airlines in Shenyang and stopped by the
>> GE Reps office. He had a massive snap ring sitting on his
>> desk and since I had never seen one as large I asked him about it. He
>> noted it went around the main shaft of a GE engine and was
>> part of the system that held the main shaft together. He handed it to me
>> and told me to look it over and note what I saw. I did so
>> and said it seemed a bit rough. He then said 'well that's because China
>> Northern engineering made it themselves because the genuine
>> GE part was too expensive!"
>>
>> 6) During the same visit McDonnell Douglas had a team in Shenyang
>> repairing a DC-9 that a Chinese pilot had run the wing tip into
>> the ground (I don't know how he did it). One of the Chinese engineers came
>> up to them and told them that their company built poor
>> quality aircraft. They asked him why he said that and he told them that
>> they "bend." Obviously this created concern so they asked
>> him for more details. He took them over to a DC-9 and showed them that the
>> skin was all wrinkled near the tail. They thanked him for
>> showing them the "poor quality aircraft" and called the local rep over to
>> the aircraft to show him the "poor quality aircraft." The
>> bottom line is that aircraft had undergone an EXTREMELY hard landing. The
>> local rep went through the aircraft log book but couldn't
>> find any reports of a hard landing (which is required). He did find an
>> entry noting that all the tires had been changed a couple of
>> weeks previously. The hard landing was not reported because the pilot
>> would have "lost face."
>>
>> 7) Along with the visiting the airlines I'd check out the local tourist
>> spots plus I would have taxi drivers take me to where they
>> sold tools and hardware. I needed an impact drill because the house in
>> Hong Kong was poured concrete. I found a Hitachi brand drill
>> for around $100 US. Sitting right next to it was a Hit brand drill that
>> looked EXACTLY like the Hitachi the only difference was the
>> color of the plastic housing. It was $50. I asked some contacts I had in
>> Hong Kong that worked for companies that purchased tools
>> and equipment from China and they advised that they would contract for
>> 1000 pieces and the Chinese would make more and sell them on
>> the local market and some of them would find their way out of China. I
>> asked why they put up with that kind of monkey business and
>> they all said that it was a common practice and if you terminate the
>> contract they continue to make them anyway and the new
>> manufacturer would probably do the same and good luck suing them in a
>> Chinese court!
>>
>> 8) I visited the Guangzhou (Canton) Trade fair yearly from 1991 to 1999
>> and noted that the quality of the tools improved
>> consistently. They figgered out the better the tools were made the more
>> money they could get for them.
>>
>> I may be returning to China in October for a 10 day tour, I'm looking
>> forward to seeing the changes. I think I might just do some
>> tool shopping as well, as most of you know you NEVER have enough tools!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> Sydney, Australia
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Les,
Yep, along with the props for the Yun 7 Hamilton Standard sold to the Xian Aircraft Company we also sold them an air conditioning
system. They kept asking us for blueprints of parts so they could "repair" them. When they asked for a drawing of the turbine in the
air cycling machine (expands engine bleed air to provide cold air to the system) I told them that they were not repairable they
changed their tune to "we want to make our own." I then explained that blueprints of parts were not included in the contract price
but we would gladly provide a quote to sell them. They asked how much it might be and I told them between 4 - 5 million dollars to
recover our design costs and that was the end of that.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 10:16 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another trip screwed up by another China built electric fuel pump
Rob,
I think we could exchange at least a days worth of Chinese stories that involve aviation. I work for Rolls Royce and as a company,
we have experienced some pretty bizarre encounters with the Chinese. They have no limits as far as what they will attempt to copy,
cheapen, and try to sell back to the people they stole from.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
Yep, along with the props for the Yun 7 Hamilton Standard sold to the Xian Aircraft Company we also sold them an air conditioning
system. They kept asking us for blueprints of parts so they could "repair" them. When they asked for a drawing of the turbine in the
air cycling machine (expands engine bleed air to provide cold air to the system) I told them that they were not repairable they
changed their tune to "we want to make our own." I then explained that blueprints of parts were not included in the contract price
but we would gladly provide a quote to sell them. They asked how much it might be and I told them between 4 - 5 million dollars to
recover our design costs and that was the end of that.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 10:16 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another trip screwed up by another China built electric fuel pump
Rob,
I think we could exchange at least a days worth of Chinese stories that involve aviation. I work for Rolls Royce and as a company,
we have experienced some pretty bizarre encounters with the Chinese. They have no limits as far as what they will attempt to copy,
cheapen, and try to sell back to the people they stole from.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
Rob,
I heard and saw some of the same when I was inspecting and sourcing aftermarket
parts for DOD. ...and noted this last spring "production overruns" while in Vietnam.
Some things never change. Just a few weeks ago I had a cheap ass rotor burn thru. It
came with the distributor. The replacement has thicker plastic. Go figure.
jim Galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, Fl
I heard and saw some of the same when I was inspecting and sourcing aftermarket
parts for DOD. ...and noted this last spring "production overruns" while in Vietnam.
Some things never change. Just a few weeks ago I had a cheap ass rotor burn thru. It
came with the distributor. The replacement has thicker plastic. Go figure.
jim Galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, Fl
A book came out a few years ago called "Poorly Made In China" by a guy who
was an customer rep at the manufacturer in China. Flat out scary, that made
in China shampoo or lotion, literally no one knows what's in them. There is
specs, what the maker thought they used, and that the ingredients supplier
actually put under those labels.
> Rob,
>
> I heard and saw some of the same when I was inspecting and sourcing
> aftermarket
> parts for DOD. ...and noted this last spring "production overruns" while
> in Vietnam.
> Some things never change. Just a few weeks ago I had a cheap ass rotor
> burn thru. It
> came with the distributor. The replacement has thicker plastic. Go figure.
>
> jim Galbavy
> '73 x-CL ANNIE
> Lake Mary, Fl
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
was an customer rep at the manufacturer in China. Flat out scary, that made
in China shampoo or lotion, literally no one knows what's in them. There is
specs, what the maker thought they used, and that the ingredients supplier
actually put under those labels.
> Rob,
>
> I heard and saw some of the same when I was inspecting and sourcing
> aftermarket
> parts for DOD. ...and noted this last spring "production overruns" while
> in Vietnam.
> Some things never change. Just a few weeks ago I had a cheap ass rotor
> burn thru. It
> came with the distributor. The replacement has thicker plastic. Go figure.
>
> jim Galbavy
> '73 x-CL ANNIE
> Lake Mary, Fl
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
I believe it 100%!
However, in my opinion it is up to the company that buys the product to guarantee the quality to the purchasing public.
In the case of the shampoo / lotion if it was my company I would have my rep grab samples off the production line at random times so
the manufacturer (wherever they might be) wouldn't know when their product was being checked.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Ronald Pottol
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 2:49 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another trip screwed up by another China built electric fuel pump
A book came out a few years ago called "Poorly Made In China" by a guy who
was an customer rep at the manufacturer in China. Flat out scary, that made
in China shampoo or lotion, literally no one knows what's in them. There is
specs, what the maker thought they used, and that the ingredients supplier
actually put under those labels.
> Rob,
>
> I heard and saw some of the same when I was inspecting and sourcing
> aftermarket
> parts for DOD. ...and noted this last spring "production overruns" while
> in Vietnam.
> Some things never change. Just a few weeks ago I had a cheap ass rotor
> burn thru. It
> came with the distributor. The replacement has thicker plastic. Go figure.
>
> jim Galbavy
> '73 x-CL ANNIE
> Lake Mary, Fl
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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However, in my opinion it is up to the company that buys the product to guarantee the quality to the purchasing public.
In the case of the shampoo / lotion if it was my company I would have my rep grab samples off the production line at random times so
the manufacturer (wherever they might be) wouldn't know when their product was being checked.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Ronald Pottol
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 2:49 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another trip screwed up by another China built electric fuel pump
A book came out a few years ago called "Poorly Made In China" by a guy who
was an customer rep at the manufacturer in China. Flat out scary, that made
in China shampoo or lotion, literally no one knows what's in them. There is
specs, what the maker thought they used, and that the ingredients supplier
actually put under those labels.
> Rob,
>
> I heard and saw some of the same when I was inspecting and sourcing
> aftermarket
> parts for DOD. ...and noted this last spring "production overruns" while
> in Vietnam.
> Some things never change. Just a few weeks ago I had a cheap ass rotor
> burn thru. It
> came with the distributor. The replacement has thicker plastic. Go figure.
>
> jim Galbavy
> '73 x-CL ANNIE
> Lake Mary, Fl
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Well, after looking at my oil analysis from my fresh 403, I can see that
the lead count is way more than it should and noticed a slight decrease in
oil pressure.
So we going to be traveling to Indiana by car.
I cannot chance having the coach transported back from the Mid West.
When we get back, we will be going to Western States Rally in the 403 and
take another oil sample and evaluate.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:
> I believe it 100%!
>
> However, in my opinion it is up to the company that buys the product to
> guarantee the quality to the purchasing public.
>
> In the case of the shampoo / lotion if it was my company I would have my
> rep grab samples off the production line at random times so
> the manufacturer (wherever they might be) wouldn't know when their product
> was being checked.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of
> Ronald Pottol
> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 2:49 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another trip screwed up by another China built
> electric fuel pump
>
> A book came out a few years ago called "Poorly Made In China" by a guy who
> was an customer rep at the manufacturer in China. Flat out scary, that made
> in China shampoo or lotion, literally no one knows what's in them. There is
> specs, what the maker thought they used, and that the ingredients supplier
> actually put under those labels.
>
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > I heard and saw some of the same when I was inspecting and sourcing
> > aftermarket
> > parts for DOD. ...and noted this last spring "production overruns" while
> > in Vietnam.
> > Some things never change. Just a few weeks ago I had a cheap ass rotor
> > burn thru. It
> > came with the distributor. The replacement has thicker plastic. Go
> figure.
> >
> > jim Galbavy
> > '73 x-CL ANNIE
> > Lake Mary, Fl
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
the lead count is way more than it should and noticed a slight decrease in
oil pressure.
So we going to be traveling to Indiana by car.
I cannot chance having the coach transported back from the Mid West.
When we get back, we will be going to Western States Rally in the 403 and
take another oil sample and evaluate.
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:
> I believe it 100%!
>
> However, in my opinion it is up to the company that buys the product to
> guarantee the quality to the purchasing public.
>
> In the case of the shampoo / lotion if it was my company I would have my
> rep grab samples off the production line at random times so
> the manufacturer (wherever they might be) wouldn't know when their product
> was being checked.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of
> Ronald Pottol
> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 2:49 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another trip screwed up by another China built
> electric fuel pump
>
> A book came out a few years ago called "Poorly Made In China" by a guy who
> was an customer rep at the manufacturer in China. Flat out scary, that made
> in China shampoo or lotion, literally no one knows what's in them. There is
> specs, what the maker thought they used, and that the ingredients supplier
> actually put under those labels.
>
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > I heard and saw some of the same when I was inspecting and sourcing
> > aftermarket
> > parts for DOD. ...and noted this last spring "production overruns" while
> > in Vietnam.
> > Some things never change. Just a few weeks ago I had a cheap ass rotor
> > burn thru. It
> > came with the distributor. The replacement has thicker plastic. Go
> figure.
> >
> > jim Galbavy
> > '73 x-CL ANNIE
> > Lake Mary, Fl
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Sure hope Grace is coming with you!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 3:32 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another trip screwed up by another China built electric fuel pump
Well, after looking at my oil analysis from my fresh 403, I can see that the lead count is way more than it should and noticed a
slight decrease in oil pressure.
So we going to be traveling to Indiana by car.
I cannot chance having the coach transported back from the Mid West.
When we get back, we will be going to Western States Rally in the 403 and take another oil sample and evaluate.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 3:32 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Another trip screwed up by another China built electric fuel pump
Well, after looking at my oil analysis from my fresh 403, I can see that the lead count is way more than it should and noticed a
slight decrease in oil pressure.
So we going to be traveling to Indiana by car.
I cannot chance having the coach transported back from the Mid West.
When we get back, we will be going to Western States Rally in the 403 and take another oil sample and evaluate.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
