Interesting. I like the 80s and up style plastic reservoirs that can’t rust.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Another possible MC?
- Thread starter john r. lebetski
- Start date
MC?? Whatzzat?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 7:39 PM John R. Lebetski
wrote:
> Interesting. I like the 80s and up style plastic reservoirs that can’t
> rust.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 7:39 PM John R. Lebetski
wrote:
> Interesting. I like the 80s and up style plastic reservoirs that can’t
> rust.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
Not saying this is the right thing to do, but when my MC was failing and I had just seen an alternative MC from 85-96 Chevy G30, P20, and GMC, G3500,
P2500, P3500 Vans and trucks, I decided to just try it. Saw it at the last GMCMI convention. It is a MC that is two stage. Kinda like the principal
behind the two stage floor jacks that pump up quick until they meet resistance. This MC has two bores. The initial is a 40MM bore supplying a lot of
fluid initially to bring the calipers and/or wheel cylinders fluid to get the pads/shoes out to contact. Then reverts to the main bore which is 1
1/4", the same size as the OEM MC. Brings the pedal up and keeps the MC from bottoming out with 80mm front and bigger calipers in rear. I like the
feel of this with better brakes. Down side is one will have to be careful to watch the fluid level as the fluid reservoir is somewhat smaller. Also,
installation must be with a metric sensitized booster as the OEM booster will not accommodate this MC. Also, needs a adjustable pushrod and some time
adjusting it so it is not dragging the brakes when pedal is let up. The shape of it accommodates the shape of our hood. Again, this is just an
experiment on my part that seems to be working. Also available through other parts houses. Just what I'm trying. No guarantees, not endorsing. Got
information from another GMC'r who will remain silent for now. Here is the NAPA part
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NMCM2580
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
P2500, P3500 Vans and trucks, I decided to just try it. Saw it at the last GMCMI convention. It is a MC that is two stage. Kinda like the principal
behind the two stage floor jacks that pump up quick until they meet resistance. This MC has two bores. The initial is a 40MM bore supplying a lot of
fluid initially to bring the calipers and/or wheel cylinders fluid to get the pads/shoes out to contact. Then reverts to the main bore which is 1
1/4", the same size as the OEM MC. Brings the pedal up and keeps the MC from bottoming out with 80mm front and bigger calipers in rear. I like the
feel of this with better brakes. Down side is one will have to be careful to watch the fluid level as the fluid reservoir is somewhat smaller. Also,
installation must be with a metric sensitized booster as the OEM booster will not accommodate this MC. Also, needs a adjustable pushrod and some time
adjusting it so it is not dragging the brakes when pedal is let up. The shape of it accommodates the shape of our hood. Again, this is just an
experiment on my part that seems to be working. Also available through other parts houses. Just what I'm trying. No guarantees, not endorsing. Got
information from another GMC'r who will remain silent for now. Here is the NAPA part
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NMCM2580
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Larry,
I think I was just talking to one of our GMC Motorhome brake gurus about this and he said he was still testing. I am awaiting his results as I fully
trust him. When he says it is ready I told him I am very interested. His approval will be everything.
Thank you for the up date.
Take care,
Tom K.
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
I think I was just talking to one of our GMC Motorhome brake gurus about this and he said he was still testing. I am awaiting his results as I fully
trust him. When he says it is ready I told him I am very interested. His approval will be everything.
Thank you for the up date.
Take care,
Tom K.
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
I should also mention that installation of this MC will necessitate modifying the reinforcing bracket that goes between the MC and the booster.
Because of the location of the rear fluid reservoir, the brace will contact the rear upper lip of the reservoir MC. So, bending it accordingly and
elongating the mounting holes on the bracket so bolts can attach it to the upper part of the firewall will be necessary. JWID
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Because of the location of the rear fluid reservoir, the brace will contact the rear upper lip of the reservoir MC. So, bending it accordingly and
elongating the mounting holes on the bracket so bolts can attach it to the upper part of the firewall will be necessary. JWID
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
> MC?? Whatzzat?
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
Master Cylinder
--
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
Master Cylinder
--
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
Randy, thanks for responding. Some out there in the net may not have known
what that abbreviated word was. I was just putting a bug in the senders ear
to be a bit more descriptive for those not so well informed. Merry
Christmas to you and Margie.
Jim and Judy
Salem, Oregon
> > MC?? Whatzzat?
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
>
> Master Cylinder
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
what that abbreviated word was. I was just putting a bug in the senders ear
to be a bit more descriptive for those not so well informed. Merry
Christmas to you and Margie.
Jim and Judy
Salem, Oregon
> > MC?? Whatzzat?
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
>
> Master Cylinder
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
> > MC?? Whatzzat?
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
>
> Master Cylinder
TYVMFTE
Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
>
> Master Cylinder
TYVMFTE
Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
> > > >
> > >
> > > this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced my stopping
> > > distance significantly. I'm still not sure if the combination valve that I replaced many years ago has the pressure restriction that Dave Lenzi
> > > has warned us about (another project).
> >
> > Hey Randy, I followed your post right up to the last couple of sentences. " this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I
> > had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced my stopping distance significantly." It left me confused about which MC you are using
> > now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping power.
>
> Larry,
> Thanks for posting this.
>
> One, thing, Randy said his new MC reduced stopping distance, not power, so that seems to make sense.
>
> I have the DL sensitized booster; Does the 40mm/1-1/8" MC that you found fit the DL booster, and use sized such that it can use the same pushrod
> as the 1-1/4" MC? What was the the final pushrod length that you found worked for the 40mm/1-1/4" MC?
DL...(Dave L), IIRC has two sensitized boosters that he provides....I THINK, If I remember correctly, I bought a Metric booster from him when I was
unable to provide a OEM booster for rebuilding to a sensitized booster. DL provides both with two vacuum ports in the case, one for intake manifold
vacuum and the other port for vacuum coming from a back-up vacuum pump. If you are asking about the OEM sensitized booster and if the 40mm/1-1/8" MC
that I found will fit the OEM booster, I don't know, because I have not really tried it. The 40mm/1-1/4" MC and the 40mm/1-1/8 MC when placed side by
side look identical to me, but I have not actually taken a caliper to it. As far as the pushrod length is concerned, so sorry, I didn't take the time
to record the actual final length and my CRS is failing me right now.
I should also mention, the only credit I can take for this is reporting my results to the group. Another GMC'r discovered it while looking through
some published MC specs. Looking at them, he just turned the page, and there it was. He took the part#, bought it, tried it and reported it to a bunch
of us at the last GMCMI convention. Timing was right for me to try it....soooo.....JWID
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
> > >
> > > this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced my stopping
> > > distance significantly. I'm still not sure if the combination valve that I replaced many years ago has the pressure restriction that Dave Lenzi
> > > has warned us about (another project).
> >
> > Hey Randy, I followed your post right up to the last couple of sentences. " this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I
> > had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced my stopping distance significantly." It left me confused about which MC you are using
> > now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping power.
>
> Larry,
> Thanks for posting this.
>
> One, thing, Randy said his new MC reduced stopping distance, not power, so that seems to make sense.
>
> I have the DL sensitized booster; Does the 40mm/1-1/8" MC that you found fit the DL booster, and use sized such that it can use the same pushrod
> as the 1-1/4" MC? What was the the final pushrod length that you found worked for the 40mm/1-1/4" MC?
DL...(Dave L), IIRC has two sensitized boosters that he provides....I THINK, If I remember correctly, I bought a Metric booster from him when I was
unable to provide a OEM booster for rebuilding to a sensitized booster. DL provides both with two vacuum ports in the case, one for intake manifold
vacuum and the other port for vacuum coming from a back-up vacuum pump. If you are asking about the OEM sensitized booster and if the 40mm/1-1/8" MC
that I found will fit the OEM booster, I don't know, because I have not really tried it. The 40mm/1-1/4" MC and the 40mm/1-1/8 MC when placed side by
side look identical to me, but I have not actually taken a caliper to it. As far as the pushrod length is concerned, so sorry, I didn't take the time
to record the actual final length and my CRS is failing me right now.
I should also mention, the only credit I can take for this is reporting my results to the group. Another GMC'r discovered it while looking through
some published MC specs. Looking at them, he just turned the page, and there it was. He took the part#, bought it, tried it and reported it to a bunch
of us at the last GMCMI convention. Timing was right for me to try it....soooo.....JWID
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
December 2021 22:17
> >
>
> One, thing, Randy said his new MC reduced stopping distance, not power, so that seems to make sense.
Not sure I understand what you said here. could you elaborate?
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
> >
>
> One, thing, Randy said his new MC reduced stopping distance, not power, so that seems to make sense.
Not sure I understand what you said here. could you elaborate?
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Quote:
> Tandy said...." this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced my
> stopping distance significantly."
>
> Then you said.... "It left me confused about which MC you are using now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping power."
So, Randy now has reduced stopping distance, therefore more stopping power, so nothing has reduced stopping power. Au contraire.
I have the Dave Lenzi two-port booster; I assume it's SAE; I didn't have to send a core. I understood that you have the same, but metric, and have
fitted the 1-1/4" MC. I'm asking if
1. You can share the length of the pushrod to save me some time if I go that way as well.
2. If you think the 1-1/8" MC can use a pushrod of the same length. (I think you answered that they look the same but haven't installed to be sure.)
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
> Tandy said...." this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced my
> stopping distance significantly."
>
> Then you said.... "It left me confused about which MC you are using now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping power."
So, Randy now has reduced stopping distance, therefore more stopping power, so nothing has reduced stopping power. Au contraire.
I have the Dave Lenzi two-port booster; I assume it's SAE; I didn't have to send a core. I understood that you have the same, but metric, and have
fitted the 1-1/4" MC. I'm asking if
1. You can share the length of the pushrod to save me some time if I go that way as well.
2. If you think the 1-1/8" MC can use a pushrod of the same length. (I think you answered that they look the same but haven't installed to be sure.)
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
> Larry,
>
> I just received the plunger/pin adjustment tool manufactured by Baer. The last MC I used Dave L's loaner tool. Is it your opinion that the
> plunger/pin tools are not satisfactory? I am about to install a new P30 MC this week.
>
> Other then calling and asking Dave, is there a way to differentiate Dave's metric sensitized booster from his SAE sensitized Booster?
>
> Thanks and Merry Christmas,
> Tom K.
HI Tom,
I can't comment on the the Baer tool you mention here. I have seen Dave's tool and watched him use it at a GMCMI rally. But have not used it myself.
IMO it is not well advised to use the P30 MC. They have small flapper valves that are prone to sticking open when clogged by dirt. When that happens,
without warning you have no brakes. IMO, find another alternative. As far as differentiating between the OEM SAE booster and the Metric. Can't comment
on that either as I've not seen them together. The individual that showed me the M2580 MC had tried to use the M2580 with a OEM booster and stated
that the M2580 had interference issues, and the Metric did not. The Metric is what I had, so it worked for me without going through the trial and
error fitting.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
>
> I just received the plunger/pin adjustment tool manufactured by Baer. The last MC I used Dave L's loaner tool. Is it your opinion that the
> plunger/pin tools are not satisfactory? I am about to install a new P30 MC this week.
>
> Other then calling and asking Dave, is there a way to differentiate Dave's metric sensitized booster from his SAE sensitized Booster?
>
> Thanks and Merry Christmas,
> Tom K.
HI Tom,
I can't comment on the the Baer tool you mention here. I have seen Dave's tool and watched him use it at a GMCMI rally. But have not used it myself.
IMO it is not well advised to use the P30 MC. They have small flapper valves that are prone to sticking open when clogged by dirt. When that happens,
without warning you have no brakes. IMO, find another alternative. As far as differentiating between the OEM SAE booster and the Metric. Can't comment
on that either as I've not seen them together. The individual that showed me the M2580 MC had tried to use the M2580 with a OEM booster and stated
that the M2580 had interference issues, and the Metric did not. The Metric is what I had, so it worked for me without going through the trial and
error fitting.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
> Quote:
> > Randy said...." this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced my
> > stopping distance significantly."
> >
> > Then you said.... "It left me confused about which MC you are using now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping
> > power."
>
> So, Randy now has reduced stopping distance, therefore more stopping power, so nothing has reduced stopping power. Au contraire.
>
> I think he's using the 1-1/8" with
>
> I have the Dave Lenzi two-port booster; I assume it's metric but I'll have to check; I didn't have to send a core. I understood that you have the
> same and have fitted the 1-1/4" MC. I'm asking if
> 1. You can share the length of the pushrod to save me some time if I go that way as well.
> 2. You think the 1-1/8" MC can use a pushrod of the same length. (I think you answered that they look the same but haven't installed to be
> sure.)
>
> It seems like there's three options...
> NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> Cardone 13-1870......44mm, 1-1/8" bore for OEM
> NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
>
> Did I get that right?
You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
One more option is of coarse the OEM MC which does not have the 40mm step bore.
Still not sure what Randy is using. Would have to confirm that with him.
To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New Years.
Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until then?
I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But would
highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not retract all
of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
> > Randy said...." this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced my
> > stopping distance significantly."
> >
> > Then you said.... "It left me confused about which MC you are using now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping
> > power."
>
> So, Randy now has reduced stopping distance, therefore more stopping power, so nothing has reduced stopping power. Au contraire.
>
> I think he's using the 1-1/8" with
>
> I have the Dave Lenzi two-port booster; I assume it's metric but I'll have to check; I didn't have to send a core. I understood that you have the
> same and have fitted the 1-1/4" MC. I'm asking if
> 1. You can share the length of the pushrod to save me some time if I go that way as well.
> 2. You think the 1-1/8" MC can use a pushrod of the same length. (I think you answered that they look the same but haven't installed to be
> sure.)
>
> It seems like there's three options...
> NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> Cardone 13-1870......44mm, 1-1/8" bore for OEM
> NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
>
> Did I get that right?
You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
One more option is of coarse the OEM MC which does not have the 40mm step bore.
Still not sure what Randy is using. Would have to confirm that with him.
To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New Years.
Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until then?
I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But would
highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not retract all
of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Larry,
Thank you for the reply. I did get the P30 with the filter screen that Ken H. had mentioned. I specifically sought out the one with the screens on the
inlet port.
I am very interested in the new master cylinder. I had a discussion with Dave L. about 2 weeks ago and we were talking about it. He said he was
waiting for test results. I would like to rid myself of the "O" rings in the p30 for the cup piston seals found in the new master cylinder in
question. It would be nice if I didn't have to buy another Vacuum Booster.
Thanks again and Oki and I hope you and Lucy have a wonderful Christmas.
Take care,
Tom K.
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag
Thank you for the reply. I did get the P30 with the filter screen that Ken H. had mentioned. I specifically sought out the one with the screens on the
inlet port.
I am very interested in the new master cylinder. I had a discussion with Dave L. about 2 weeks ago and we were talking about it. He said he was
waiting for test results. I would like to rid myself of the "O" rings in the p30 for the cup piston seals found in the new master cylinder in
question. It would be nice if I didn't have to buy another Vacuum Booster.
Thanks again and Oki and I hope you and Lucy have a wonderful Christmas.
Take care,
Tom K.
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag
> You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
>
> To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New Years.
> Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until then?
>
> I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But
> would highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not
> retract all of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
I think you picked up a version as I was editing, but I did have the mm wrong; they're all 40mm as you mentioned.
No problem with the pushrod; I missed that you had it already installed.
Bill
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
>
> To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New Years.
> Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until then?
>
> I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But
> would highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not
> retract all of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
I think you picked up a version as I was editing, but I did have the mm wrong; they're all 40mm as you mentioned.
No problem with the pushrod; I missed that you had it already installed.
Bill
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
In reading these brake postings, including pushrod comments, I kept
thinking Y'All could use my "Pushrod Gauge", so here's a link to it:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6289-master-cylinder-pushrod-gauge.html
Like many of my postings on the photo site, you need to go through the
photos backward -- last one first. Wish there was an easy way to correct
those, but I don't know how.
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:34 AM Bill Van Vlack
wrote:
> > You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the
> step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
> >
> > To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and
> remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New
> Years.
> > Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until
> then?
> >
> > I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the
> same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But
> > would highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring
> the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not
> > retract all of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
>
> I think you picked up a version as I was editing, but I did have the mm
> wrong; they're all 40mm as you mentioned.
>
> No problem with the pushrod; I missed that you had it already installed.
>
> Bill
>
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
thinking Y'All could use my "Pushrod Gauge", so here's a link to it:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6289-master-cylinder-pushrod-gauge.html
Like many of my postings on the photo site, you need to go through the
photos backward -- last one first. Wish there was an easy way to correct
those, but I don't know how.
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:34 AM Bill Van Vlack
wrote:
> > You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the
> step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
> >
> > To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and
> remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New
> Years.
> > Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until
> then?
> >
> > I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the
> same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But
> > would highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring
> the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not
> > retract all of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
>
> I think you picked up a version as I was editing, but I did have the mm
> wrong; they're all 40mm as you mentioned.
>
> No problem with the pushrod; I missed that you had it already installed.
>
> Bill
>
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
> Larry,
>
> Thank you for the reply. I did get the P30 with the filter screen that Ken H. had mentioned. I specifically sought out the one with the screens on
> the inlet port.
>
> I am very interested in the new master cylinder. I had a discussion with Dave L. about 2 weeks ago and we were talking about it. He said he was
> waiting for test results. I would like to rid myself of the "O" rings in the p30 for the cup piston seals found in the new master cylinder in
> question. It would be nice if I didn't have to buy another Vacuum Booster.
>
> Thanks again and Oki and I hope you and Lucy have a wonderful Christmas.
>
> Take care,
> Tom K.
Oh...Tom, thanks!! And You and Oki have the best of Christmas. Looking forward to seeing you two again...perhaps at Patterson?
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
>
> Thank you for the reply. I did get the P30 with the filter screen that Ken H. had mentioned. I specifically sought out the one with the screens on
> the inlet port.
>
> I am very interested in the new master cylinder. I had a discussion with Dave L. about 2 weeks ago and we were talking about it. He said he was
> waiting for test results. I would like to rid myself of the "O" rings in the p30 for the cup piston seals found in the new master cylinder in
> question. It would be nice if I didn't have to buy another Vacuum Booster.
>
> Thanks again and Oki and I hope you and Lucy have a wonderful Christmas.
>
> Take care,
> Tom K.
Oh...Tom, thanks!! And You and Oki have the best of Christmas. Looking forward to seeing you two again...perhaps at Patterson?
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
> > Quote:
> > > Randy said...." this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced
> > > my stopping distance significantly."
> > >
> > > Then you said.... "It left me confused about which MC you are using now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping
> > > power."
> >
> > So, Randy now has reduced stopping distance, therefore more stopping power, so nothing has reduced stopping power. Au contraire.
> >
> > I think he's using the 1-1/8" with
> >
> > I have the Dave Lenzi two-port booster; I assume it's metric but I'll have to check; I didn't have to send a core. I understood that you have
> > the same and have fitted the 1-1/4" MC. I'm asking if
> > 1. You can share the length of the pushrod to save me some time if I go that way as well.
> > 2. You think the 1-1/8" MC can use a pushrod of the same length. (I think you answered that they look the same but haven't installed to be
> > sure.)
> >
> > It seems like there's three options...
> > NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> > Cardone 13-1870......44mm, 1-1/8" bore for OEM
> > NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> >
> > Did I get that right?
>
> You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
>
> One more option is of coarse the OEM MC which does not have the 40mm step bore.
>
> Still not sure what Randy is using. Would have to confirm that with him.
>
> To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New Years.
> Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until then?
>
> I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But
> would highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not
> retract all of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
I apologize if I misled anyone. I'm not at home (headed to the west and currently somewhere in Texas) so cannot verify for sure which master cylinder
(thanks to Jim H for reminding me not to use acronyms) that I am using. I now believe it is a Cardone 13-2058 which I believe crosses to the Napa
M2609 that Larry mentioned as having the 1 1/8" bore. The seat into the Master Cylinder fits the original booster. I was concerned with the volume
with the 1 1/8" bore but it seems to give me a good pedal That may be the reason that I now have better stopping distance. I was originally using
the GMC Motorhome OEM Master Cylinder that has a 1 1/4" bore. The new Master Cylinder that I'm using has the 40mm step bore which probably eliminates
concern for volume. Here is a link to a Cardone Chart that gives the bore sizes (including the step bore) for all of the master cylinders they make.
http://www.pbwdist.com/catalogs/Cardon_MasterCylinders_IDGuide_2013.pdf
I have not measured pressures at the caliphers so do not know if I have increased clamping power (I suspect I do). Also, I have not verified if the
combination valve I have limits psi to what was originally the rears.
I used the original push rod that I had in the OEM Master Cylinder. I have had a bit of drop in mpg after putting the Master Cylinder on and have not
found a cause for that yet. My theory is that I may have the push rod just a bit too long maintaining some drag on the pads. Also, I wonder that
because these Master Cylinders are for disc/drum combinations if there is a residual check valve causing some pressure to remain on the calipher like
those valves did for drum brakes. If any of these things existed I would think I would have a lot higher temps on the rotors. I have been measuring
those temps and haven't notice temps high enough to be of concern. Funny, though, the front rear rotors run about 20 degrees hotter than the rear
rear or the fronts. Anyway, I don't believe I have sorted all the issues but am happy with the braking.
--
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
> > > Randy said...." this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced
> > > my stopping distance significantly."
> > >
> > > Then you said.... "It left me confused about which MC you are using now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping
> > > power."
> >
> > So, Randy now has reduced stopping distance, therefore more stopping power, so nothing has reduced stopping power. Au contraire.
> >
> > I think he's using the 1-1/8" with
> >
> > I have the Dave Lenzi two-port booster; I assume it's metric but I'll have to check; I didn't have to send a core. I understood that you have
> > the same and have fitted the 1-1/4" MC. I'm asking if
> > 1. You can share the length of the pushrod to save me some time if I go that way as well.
> > 2. You think the 1-1/8" MC can use a pushrod of the same length. (I think you answered that they look the same but haven't installed to be
> > sure.)
> >
> > It seems like there's three options...
> > NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> > Cardone 13-1870......44mm, 1-1/8" bore for OEM
> > NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> >
> > Did I get that right?
>
> You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
>
> One more option is of coarse the OEM MC which does not have the 40mm step bore.
>
> Still not sure what Randy is using. Would have to confirm that with him.
>
> To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New Years.
> Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until then?
>
> I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But
> would highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not
> retract all of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
I apologize if I misled anyone. I'm not at home (headed to the west and currently somewhere in Texas) so cannot verify for sure which master cylinder
(thanks to Jim H for reminding me not to use acronyms) that I am using. I now believe it is a Cardone 13-2058 which I believe crosses to the Napa
M2609 that Larry mentioned as having the 1 1/8" bore. The seat into the Master Cylinder fits the original booster. I was concerned with the volume
with the 1 1/8" bore but it seems to give me a good pedal That may be the reason that I now have better stopping distance. I was originally using
the GMC Motorhome OEM Master Cylinder that has a 1 1/4" bore. The new Master Cylinder that I'm using has the 40mm step bore which probably eliminates
concern for volume. Here is a link to a Cardone Chart that gives the bore sizes (including the step bore) for all of the master cylinders they make.
http://www.pbwdist.com/catalogs/Cardon_MasterCylinders_IDGuide_2013.pdf
I have not measured pressures at the caliphers so do not know if I have increased clamping power (I suspect I do). Also, I have not verified if the
combination valve I have limits psi to what was originally the rears.
I used the original push rod that I had in the OEM Master Cylinder. I have had a bit of drop in mpg after putting the Master Cylinder on and have not
found a cause for that yet. My theory is that I may have the push rod just a bit too long maintaining some drag on the pads. Also, I wonder that
because these Master Cylinders are for disc/drum combinations if there is a residual check valve causing some pressure to remain on the calipher like
those valves did for drum brakes. If any of these things existed I would think I would have a lot higher temps on the rotors. I have been measuring
those temps and haven't notice temps high enough to be of concern. Funny, though, the front rear rotors run about 20 degrees hotter than the rear
rear or the fronts. Anyway, I don't believe I have sorted all the issues but am happy with the braking.
--
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
Randy, how far West are you coming? If you get as far as Oregon, be sure to
give Judy and I a call. Would love to see you and Margie.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
> > > Quote:
> > > > Randy said...." this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using
> previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced
> > > > my stopping distance significantly."
> > > >
> > > > Then you said.... "It left me confused about which MC you are using
> now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping
> > > > power."
> > >
> > > So, Randy now has reduced stopping distance, therefore more stopping
> power, so nothing has reduced stopping power. Au contraire.
> > >
> > > I think he's using the 1-1/8" with
> > >
> > > I have the Dave Lenzi two-port booster; I assume it's metric but I'll
> have to check; I didn't have to send a core. I understood that you have
> > > the same and have fitted the 1-1/4" MC. I'm asking if
> > > 1. You can share the length of the pushrod to save me some time if I
> go that way as well.
> > > 2. You think the 1-1/8" MC can use a pushrod of the same length. (I
> think you answered that they look the same but haven't installed to be
> > > sure.)
> > >
> > > It seems like there's three options...
> > > NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> > > Cardone 13-1870......44mm, 1-1/8" bore for OEM
> > > NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> > >
> > > Did I get that right?
> >
> > You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the
> step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
> >
> > One more option is of coarse the OEM MC which does not have the 40mm
> step bore.
> >
> > Still not sure what Randy is using. Would have to confirm that with him.
> >
> > To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and
> remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New
> Years.
> > Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until
> then?
> >
> > I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the
> same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But
> > would highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring
> the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not
> > retract all of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
>
> I apologize if I misled anyone. I'm not at home (headed to the west and
> currently somewhere in Texas) so cannot verify for sure which master
> cylinder
> (thanks to Jim H for reminding me not to use acronyms) that I am using. I
> now believe it is a Cardone 13-2058 which I believe crosses to the Napa
> M2609 that Larry mentioned as having the 1 1/8" bore. The seat into the
> Master Cylinder fits the original booster. I was concerned with the volume
> with the 1 1/8" bore but it seems to give me a good pedal That may be the
> reason that I now have better stopping distance. I was originally using
> the GMC Motorhome OEM Master Cylinder that has a 1 1/4" bore. The new
> Master Cylinder that I'm using has the 40mm step bore which probably
> eliminates
> concern for volume. Here is a link to a Cardone Chart that gives the bore
> sizes (including the step bore) for all of the master cylinders they make.
> http://www.pbwdist.com/catalogs/Cardon_MasterCylinders_IDGuide_2013.pdf
>
> I have not measured pressures at the caliphers so do not know if I have
> increased clamping power (I suspect I do). Also, I have not verified if the
> combination valve I have limits psi to what was originally the rears.
>
> I used the original push rod that I had in the OEM Master Cylinder. I
> have had a bit of drop in mpg after putting the Master Cylinder on and have
> not
> found a cause for that yet. My theory is that I may have the push rod
> just a bit too long maintaining some drag on the pads. Also, I wonder that
> because these Master Cylinders are for disc/drum combinations if there is
> a residual check valve causing some pressure to remain on the calipher like
> those valves did for drum brakes. If any of these things existed I would
> think I would have a lot higher temps on the rotors. I have been measuring
> those temps and haven't notice temps high enough to be of concern. Funny,
> though, the front rear rotors run about 20 degrees hotter than the rear
> rear or the fronts. Anyway, I don't believe I have sorted all the issues
> but am happy with the braking.
>
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
give Judy and I a call. Would love to see you and Margie.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
> > > Quote:
> > > > Randy said...." this MC works better than the OEM MC I was using
> previously. I had plenty of stopping power before but now I have reduced
> > > > my stopping distance significantly."
> > > >
> > > > Then you said.... "It left me confused about which MC you are using
> now and what kind of braking you have, and what has reduced stopping
> > > > power."
> > >
> > > So, Randy now has reduced stopping distance, therefore more stopping
> power, so nothing has reduced stopping power. Au contraire.
> > >
> > > I think he's using the 1-1/8" with
> > >
> > > I have the Dave Lenzi two-port booster; I assume it's metric but I'll
> have to check; I didn't have to send a core. I understood that you have
> > > the same and have fitted the 1-1/4" MC. I'm asking if
> > > 1. You can share the length of the pushrod to save me some time if I
> go that way as well.
> > > 2. You think the 1-1/8" MC can use a pushrod of the same length. (I
> think you answered that they look the same but haven't installed to be
> > > sure.)
> > >
> > > It seems like there's three options...
> > > NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> > > Cardone 13-1870......44mm, 1-1/8" bore for OEM
> > > NAPA NMC M2580 ......44mm, 1-1/4" bore for metric
> > >
> > > Did I get that right?
> >
> > You're first an third options are the same did you intend that? And the
> step bore on them is 40mm, not the 44mm that you state.
> >
> > One more option is of coarse the OEM MC which does not have the 40mm
> step bore.
> >
> > Still not sure what Randy is using. Would have to confirm that with him.
> >
> > To get the pushrod length, I'd have to go out in the snowdrift and
> remove the MC. I will be traveling to Florida between Christmas and New
> Years.
> > Should be there by 1st or second week of January. Can you wait until
> then?
> >
> > I think there is a high probability that the pushrod length would be the
> same between the 40mm, 1-1/8" bore MC, and the 40mm, 1-1/4" bore. But
> > would highly advise doing the adjustment procedure on both and measuring
> the two to verify. The last thing you want is for the MC piston to not
> > retract all of the way holding the brakes on. JMHO
>
> I apologize if I misled anyone. I'm not at home (headed to the west and
> currently somewhere in Texas) so cannot verify for sure which master
> cylinder
> (thanks to Jim H for reminding me not to use acronyms) that I am using. I
> now believe it is a Cardone 13-2058 which I believe crosses to the Napa
> M2609 that Larry mentioned as having the 1 1/8" bore. The seat into the
> Master Cylinder fits the original booster. I was concerned with the volume
> with the 1 1/8" bore but it seems to give me a good pedal That may be the
> reason that I now have better stopping distance. I was originally using
> the GMC Motorhome OEM Master Cylinder that has a 1 1/4" bore. The new
> Master Cylinder that I'm using has the 40mm step bore which probably
> eliminates
> concern for volume. Here is a link to a Cardone Chart that gives the bore
> sizes (including the step bore) for all of the master cylinders they make.
> http://www.pbwdist.com/catalogs/Cardon_MasterCylinders_IDGuide_2013.pdf
>
> I have not measured pressures at the caliphers so do not know if I have
> increased clamping power (I suspect I do). Also, I have not verified if the
> combination valve I have limits psi to what was originally the rears.
>
> I used the original push rod that I had in the OEM Master Cylinder. I
> have had a bit of drop in mpg after putting the Master Cylinder on and have
> not
> found a cause for that yet. My theory is that I may have the push rod
> just a bit too long maintaining some drag on the pads. Also, I wonder that
> because these Master Cylinders are for disc/drum combinations if there is
> a residual check valve causing some pressure to remain on the calipher like
> those valves did for drum brakes. If any of these things existed I would
> think I would have a lot higher temps on the rotors. I have been measuring
> those temps and haven't notice temps high enough to be of concern. Funny,
> though, the front rear rotors run about 20 degrees hotter than the rear
> rear or the fronts. Anyway, I don't believe I have sorted all the issues
> but am happy with the braking.
>
> --
> Randy & Margie
> '77 Eleganza II '403'
> Battlefield, MO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
Randy,
Thank you for the update. I am eagerly awaiting more data. I just machined my new pin today. I very much don't mind doing it again for a good master
cylinder.
Thank again and Merry Christmas,
Tom K.
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag
Thank you for the update. I am eagerly awaiting more data. I just machined my new pin today. I very much don't mind doing it again for a good master
cylinder.
Thank again and Merry Christmas,
Tom K.
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag
