And now for a little side ways

Not sure I'd want a transverse engine on anything doing heavy duty pulling...

Just throwing this out there, but the only other heavy duty, longitudinal drivetrain, front drive application I know of is some E-450 transit vans
were converted to FWD. They use them here at the State Fair of Texas as parking lot shuttles. The FWD lets them lower the van floor for ease of
entry. Some quick internet searching reveals they were common on transit busses in Canada as well. The Canadian ones are running old Navistar 7.3s
and have some sort of a Carraro H.S. drivetrain running forward to what looks like a heavy duty Dana front axle. Not sure if the State fair busses
also run the Carraro, but I can confirm by the sound they are definitely running 7.3s...

So as someone else here mentioned... Use a GM 1 Ton front end instead of the dana used on these fords powered by a driveshaft off of this Carraro
unit... Either use an adapter or maybe Carrero has a GM Bellhousing pattern available.

Hal had also mentioned using a NP205 converted for FWD operation as another drivetrain option to get power from a longitudinal mount engine to the
front wheels... Nice thing about that setup is NP205s are everywhere...

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f14/odd-e450-bus-set-up-310304/

Here's one that was up for auction just a few days ago. Went for 1800 Canadian... If the 7.3 runs well, you should easily be able to get 1800 just
for the engine. You'd end up with a nearly free drivetrain...

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=3&acctid=5511
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
> Not sure I'd want a transverse engine on anything doing heavy duty pulling...
>
> Just throwing this out there, but the only other heavy duty, longitudinal drivetrain, front drive application I know of is some E-450 transit vans
> were converted to FWD. They use them here at the State Fair of Texas as parking lot shuttles. The FWD lets them lower the van floor for ease of
> entry. Some quick internet searching reveals they were common on transit busses in Canada as well. The Canadian ones are running old Navistar 7.3s
> and have some sort of a Carraro H.S. drivetrain running forward to what looks like a heavy duty Dana front axle. Not sure if the State fair busses
> also run the Carraro, but I can confirm by the sound they are definitely running 7.3s...
>
> So as someone else here mentioned... Use a GM 1 Ton front end instead of the dana used on these fords powered by a driveshaft off of this Carraro
> unit... Either use an adapter or maybe Carrero has a GM Bellhousing pattern available.
>
> Hal had also mentioned using a NP205 converted for FWD operation as another drivetrain option to get power from a longitudinal mount engine to the
> front wheels... Nice thing about that setup is NP205s are everywhere...
>
> http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f14/odd-e450-bus-set-up-310304/
>
> Here's one that was up for auction just a few days ago. Went for 1800 Canadian... If the 7.3 runs well, you should easily be able to get 1800
> just for the engine. You'd end up with a nearly free drivetrain...
>
> https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=3&acctid=5511

Doing some more research, it looks like Carraro just makes the front axle. These busses are running a 4R100, same as any other heavy duty ford from
that time... Would imagine then that they are running an NP205 as Hal suggested as well...

--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
There may be alot of Canadian reference to the ELF para-transit buses because of this company located not far from me:

http://www.overlandcustomcoach.com/

In the "About" part of their home page there is reference to their introduction of the ELF (Economical Low Floor) para-transit bus. I'm not sure if
they developed it or just were a Distributor for it.
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
Man just take the Titian II and drop a GMC body on it.

How hard could it be??

http://www.overlandcustomcoach.com/titan-ii-lf

Titan II Low Floor Bus - Overland Custom Coachhttp://www.overlandcustomcoach.com/titan-ii-lf
www.overlandcustomcoach.com
The TITAN II LF (Low Floor) Passenger Capacity of up to 21 . The Glaval Titan II LF: Low Floor; Rear Wheel Drive; Purpose Built Chassis; Rugged Durability

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Bruce Hislop
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 2:29:43 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] And now for a little side ways

There may be alot of Canadian reference to the ELF para-transit buses because of this company located not far from me:

http://www.overlandcustomcoach.com/

In the "About" part of their home page there is reference to their introduction of the ELF (Economical Low Floor) para-transit bus. I'm not sure if
they developed it or just were a Distributor for it.
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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> Man just take the Titian II and drop a GMC body on it.
> How hard could it be??
>
> http://www.overlandcustomcoach.com/titan-ii-lf
>
> Titan II Low Floor Bus - Overland Custom Coach
> www.overlandcustomcoach.com
> The TITAN II LF (Low Floor) Passenger Capacity of up to 21 . The Glaval Titan II LF: Low Floor; Rear Wheel Drive; Purpose Built Chassis; Rugged
> Durability

That one is rear wheel drive.

What you want is front wheel drive:

http://dallassmithcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/brochures/f-450-f-550-superlowfloorchassis.pdf
 
There you go... Looks like mostly Ford stuff, but I see a few GM chassis there...

Love to have an Allison 6 speed driving the front wheels on my GMC...

http://dallassmithcorp.com/products/specialty-vehicles/gallery-case-histories/#

I like the black F450 with the super single rear tire at the top of the page...
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
Mark, other than the lack of traction - which we have now - what's the argument against a transverse front drive train?

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
I guess my main issue is there really aren't any "truly" heavy duty transverse engine transaxles out there... While the 4T80 may be an option, you're
really asking it to do way more than it was ever designed to do pulling a GMC and possibly a towd around. I worked for Manheim Auto Auctions back in
the 90s, and we had more than a few Caddys and Auroras with tranny issues come through... From what I remember, the casing just wasn't beefy enough
to support the torque.

Really, by a large margin, the strongest front drive transaxle out there, is the one we already have... At least as far as I am aware. But then,
compare even the TH425 to an Allison, or Ford 6R110, and I'm not a dodge guy, but whatever they use in the HD rams, and there is no contest. 1000
lbft of torque is no problem with those gearboxes. Not sure if a TH425 could be reasonably built to take that kind of torque, but I would bet it
would not be easy...

To go with a gearbox weaker than we have already, does not seem like an upgrade to me. Even with the added overdrive.

Just my opinion...

Now, whatever they run in those front drive Texas State Fair vans, I'd have no problem putting in anything I own that hauls a load... I tried to find
some pictures online but couldn't. Not only do they have the low floor bus chassis full of people, but they pull like a small train of 3 or so
trailers with people on them as well. 105 degree heat, all day long.

Here are some more shots of that Canadian Overland shuttle bus. The Texas vans really look similar. They're running 10 bolt axles on them:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/r-flores/sets/72157628119573157/

-If- I ever go through the effort of a drivetrain swap on my GMC, there is no way I'm going through all that work and $$ to put in something that's
not at least as tough as what I have in there already...
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
To Mike: the original poster:

Been reading these engine swap threads and there was some mention at one time of using an LS motor backed up with a TH425, but there was of course the
issue with the oil pan having a halfshaft run through it...

Did you look into the Trailblazer SS Oil pan? Should bolt up to most LS engines...

http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-pans/oil-pan-for-chevrolet-ssr-trailblazer-gmc-envoy-saab-7x-p-401.html?gclid=CI_wotGvtQCFYaCswodUegC4w&utm_campaign=googleproductsearchusen&utm_medium=product_search&utm_source=googleproductsearchusen

--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
> There seems to be some question about the strength of the 4T80e.
>
> Keep in mind the progression at GM.
>
> the 400/425 torque capacity morphed into the 4l80E/ 4T80E.
>
> The L (longitudal) 4L80e was the trans of choice in the big block trucks. And had a reasonable decent reputation.
>
> It was only the increase torque of the Duramax and 8.1 that a new, more robust trans was needed. The Allison.
>
> The internals of the 4t80E match the 4l80E. The same as the internals of the 400 match the 425.
>
> And yes. The chain is a limiter.
>
> The real enemy is HEAT under sustain max load. Synthetics and a temp gauge go a long way to battling that enemy!

Actually, the 4t80e is 'morphed' from the TH125 trans first used in the X bodies, I believe. A little light for our use I'd guess.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
 
Mark
The real trouble isn't the motor to the trans, it's the diff interferes with the pan rail by 1/2".
One guy milled the panrail down and ground a hole in the diff and JB welded back shut.
I have the LS in place with the diff by clocking the trans 22 degrees. But it won't clear the step or hatch.

What your are looking at can be done, look at Hal's,

The goal of this is "bolt-in" under the hatch. So anyone could do it.
 
> There you go... Looks like mostly Ford stuff, but I see a few GM chassis there...
>
> Love to have an Allison 6 speed driving the front wheels on my GMC...
>
> http://dallassmithcorp.com/products/specialty-vehicles/gallery-case-histories/#
>
> I like the black F450 with the super single rear tire at the top of the page...

The one I linked to has ABS.
Another advantage is lower toll charges. Only two axles.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/1/medium/Dallas_Smith_Ford_F450_ZFrame_LoFloor_Suspension_Overlay.jpg
 
> > There you go... Looks like mostly Ford stuff, but I see a few GM chassis there...
> >
> > Love to have an Allison 6 speed driving the front wheels on my GMC...
> >
> > http://dallassmithcorp.com/products/specialty-vehicles/gallery-case-histories/#
> >
> > I like the black F450 with the super single rear tire at the top of the page...
>
> The one I linked to has ABS.
> Another advantage is lower toll charges. Only two axles.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/1/medium/Dallas_Smith_Ford_F450_ZFrame_LoFloor_Suspension_Overlay.jpg

Alternatively, if you want a 29' stretch, just make the GMC body 37" longer and drop it on the Ford chassis without shortening the Ford chassis.
 
Assuming that drawing of the Ford Chassis is close to reality. It would require redesign of fuel tankage and black water tank.

----- Original Message -----

From: "A."
To: "gmclist"
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:57:16 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] And now for a little side ways

> > There you go... Looks like mostly Ford stuff, but I see a few GM chassis there...
> >
> > Love to have an Allison 6 speed driving the front wheels on my GMC...
> >
> > http://dallassmithcorp.com/products/specialty-vehicles/gallery-case-histories/#
> >
> > I like the black F450 with the super single rear tire at the top of the page...
>
> The one I linked to has ABS.
> Another advantage is lower toll charges. Only two axles.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/1/medium/Dallas_Smith_Ford_F450_ZFrame_LoFloor_Suspension_Overlay.jpg

Alternatively, if you want a 29' stretch, just make the GMC body 37" longer and drop it on the Ford chassis without shortening the Ford chassis.

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> Assuming that drawing of the Ford Chassis is close to reality. It would require redesign of fuel tankage and black water tank.

Yep. Other possibilities are; Connect the Ford front clip to the GMC rear frame and replace the spindles with something that will allow the rear
wheels to match the front. Try to retain the GMC front subframe and graft only the drivetrain components into it.

Certainly way more trouble that it is worth. But everything fun always is.
 
It would be safer to build a unique front clip that has the proper engine/trans support built in. Needs to be engineered. Before all that, need to find out if the longer term parts availability warrants the effort. Would something like this need to be passed through the DOT?
----- Original Message -----

From: "A."
To: "gmclist"
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:43:51 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] And now for a little side ways

> Assuming that drawing of the Ford Chassis is close to reality. It would require redesign of fuel tankage and black water tank.

Yep. Other possibilities are; Connect the Ford front clip to the GMC rear frame and replace the spindles with something that will allow the rear
wheels to match the front. Try to retain the GMC front subframe and graft only the drivetrain components into it.

Certainly way more trouble that it is worth. But everything fun always is.

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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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> ... Would something like this need to be passed through the DOT?...

Same as one-ton front end and rear disk brakes and reaction arms and body/frame stretches and....
 
While we are making these changes, how about splitting the body down the middle and add 6 inches to the width. North NM Hal could give pointers on how
to do it.

Southern NM Hal
 
>
> Would something like this need to be passed through the DOT?

DOT has nothing to say. You can build what ever you want. When you go to register it, your state's DVM might have something to say, but unless you
are going to sell it as production item (or you live in California) the government pretty much stops there.
I know three people (this is car country) that have built "Clean Paper" cars.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Ever see a Beechcraft Twin Bonanza?? :)

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
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