Air suspension problem

W

w schurman

New member
Jun 30, 2015
47
0
0
I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot air up
the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the line is
pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get under the
coach to inspect ).to the bag.
But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I check it
?
Thanks for any advice.

--
William S. Schurman
p.o. box 772806
Steamboat Springs, CO
80477
1978 Palm Beach
TZE168V100258
 
OK, William,

By design, the airsprings (airbags) are supposed to be completely isolated.

Next question:
Is the coach Electro-Level I or Electro-Level II?? BIG Difference.
If you do not know, tell us what you do know.

Matt

> I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot air up
> the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the line is
> pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get under the
> coach to inspect ).to the bag.
> But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I check it
> ?
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> --
> William S. Schurman

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
I do not know which one but I think that it is Electro=Level II. The
controls are to the left of the driver, does this help?

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:29 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

> OK, William,
>
> By design, the airsprings (airbags) are supposed to be completely
> isolated.
>
> Next question:
> Is the coach Electro-Level I or Electro-Level II?? BIG Difference.
> If you do not know, tell us what you do know.
>
> Matt
>
>

> > I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot air up
> > the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the line is
> > pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get under the
> > coach to inspect ).to the bag.
> > But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I check it
> > ?
> > Thanks for any advice.
> >
> > --
> > William S. Schurman
>
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
William S. Schurman
box 772806
Steamboat Springs, CO
80477
1978 Palm Beach
TZE168V100258
 
Do you have one compressor, or two? Do you have electronic ride height
sensors in the wheel wells?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:57 PM w schurman via Gmclist <

> I do not know which one but I think that it is Electro=Level II. The
> controls are to the left of the driver, does this help?
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:29 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

>
> > OK, William,
> >
> > By design, the airsprings (airbags) are supposed to be completely
> > isolated.
> >
> > Next question:
> > Is the coach Electro-Level I or Electro-Level II?? BIG Difference.
> > If you do not know, tell us what you do know.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >

> > > I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot air
> up
> > > the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the line
> is
> > > pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get under
> the
> > > coach to inspect ).to the bag.
> > > But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I check
> it
> > > ?
> > > Thanks for any advice.
> > >
> > > --
> > > William S. Schurman
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> > Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> > OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
> William S. Schurman
> box 772806
> Steamboat Springs, CO
> 80477
> 1978 Palm Beach
> TZE168V100258
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I have one compressor and not an electronic ride height sensor in the
wheel well.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 6:00 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> Do you have one compressor, or two? Do you have electronic ride height
> sensors in the wheel wells?
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:57 PM w schurman via Gmclist <

>
> > I do not know which one but I think that it is Electro=Level II. The
> > controls are to the left of the driver, does this help?
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:29 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

> >
> > > OK, William,
> > >
> > > By design, the airsprings (airbags) are supposed to be completely
> > > isolated.
> > >
> > > Next question:
> > > Is the coach Electro-Level I or Electro-Level II?? BIG Difference.
> > > If you do not know, tell us what you do know.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > >

> > > > I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot air
> > up
> > > > the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the line
> > is
> > > > pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get under
> > the
> > > > coach to inspect ).to the bag.
> > > > But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I
> check
> > it
> > > > ?
> > > > Thanks for any advice.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > William S. Schurman
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> > > Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> > > OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> > > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > William S. Schurman
> > box 772806
> > Steamboat Springs, CO
> > 80477
> > 1978 Palm Beach
> > TZE168V100258
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
William S. Schurman
box 772806
Steamboat Springs, CO
80477
1978 Palm Beach
TZE168V100258
 
Then you have an EL 1. Sounds to me like you might have a problem with
either a control relay ( likely) or solenoid. The manual covers
troubleshooting this system quite well. Might benefit you if you give it a
look.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 5:08 PM w schurman via Gmclist <

> I have one compressor and not an electronic ride height sensor in the
> wheel well.
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 6:00 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

>
> > Do you have one compressor, or two? Do you have electronic ride height
> > sensors in the wheel wells?
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:57 PM w schurman via Gmclist <

> >
> > > I do not know which one but I think that it is Electro=Level II. The
> > > controls are to the left of the driver, does this help?
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:29 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <

> > >
> > > > OK, William,
> > > >
> > > > By design, the airsprings (airbags) are supposed to be completely
> > > > isolated.
> > > >
> > > > Next question:
> > > > Is the coach Electro-Level I or Electro-Level II?? BIG Difference.
> > > > If you do not know, tell us what you do know.
> > > >
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > > >

> > > > > I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot
> air
> > > up
> > > > > the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the
> line
> > > is
> > > > > pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get
> under
> > > the
> > > > > coach to inspect ).to the bag.
> > > > > But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I
> > check
> > > it
> > > > > ?
> > > > > Thanks for any advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > William S. Schurman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> > > > Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> > > > OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> > > > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > William S. Schurman
> > > box 772806
> > > Steamboat Springs, CO
> > > 80477
> > > 1978 Palm Beach
> > > TZE168V100258
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
> William S. Schurman
> box 772806
> Steamboat Springs, CO
> 80477
> 1978 Palm Beach
> TZE168V100258
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Sir, does the raise side you are having issues with make any clicks or anything in the cabinet when you push the switch to raise? If not It could be
the switch dirty, they are fairly easy to take apart and clean with an eraser and lube.

> I have one compressor and not an electronic ride height sensor in the
> wheel well.
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 6:00 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

>
> > Do you have one compressor, or two? Do you have electronic ride height
> > sensors in the wheel wells?
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
> >

> >
> >> I do not know which one but I think that it is Electro=Level II. The
> >> controls are to the left of the driver, does this help?
> >>

> >>
> >>> OK, William,
> >>>
> >>> By design, the airsprings (airbags) are supposed to be completely
> >>> isolated.
> >>>
> >>> Next question:
> >>> Is the coach Electro-Level I or Electro-Level II?? BIG Difference.
> >>> If you do not know, tell us what you do know.
> >>>
> >>> Matt
> >>>
> >>>

> >>>> I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot air
> >> up
> >>>> the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the line
> >> is
> >>>> pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get under
> >> the
> >>>> coach to inspect ).to the bag.
> >>>> But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I
> > check
> >> it
> >>>> ?
> >>>> Thanks for any advice.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> William S. Schurman
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> >>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> >>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> >>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> William S. Schurman
> >> box 772806
> >> Steamboat Springs, CO
> >> 80477
> >> 1978 Palm Beach
> >> TZE168V100258
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
> William S. Schurman
> box 772806
> Steamboat Springs, CO
> 80477
> 1978 Palm Beach
> TZE168V100258
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
The compressor (Viair) is fairly loud so if there is clicking I do not hear
it.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 6:35 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

> Sir, does the raise side you are having issues with make any clicks or
> anything in the cabinet when you push the switch to raise? If not It could
> be
> the switch dirty, they are fairly easy to take apart and clean with an
> eraser and lube.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > I have one compressor and not an electronic ride height sensor in the
> > wheel well.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 6:00 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> >
> > > Do you have one compressor, or two? Do you have electronic ride height
> > > sensors in the wheel wells?
> > > Jim Hupy
> > > Salem, Oregon
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:57 PM w schurman via Gmclist

> > >
> > >> I do not know which one but I think that it is Electro=Level II. The
> > >> controls are to the left of the driver, does this help?
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:29 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist >

> > >>
> > >>> OK, William,
> > >>>
> > >>> By design, the airsprings (airbags) are supposed to be completely
> > >>> isolated.
> > >>>
> > >>> Next question:
> > >>> Is the coach Electro-Level I or Electro-Level II?? BIG Difference.
> > >>> If you do not know, tell us what you do know.
> > >>>
> > >>> Matt
> > >>>
> > >>>

> > >>>> I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot
> air
> > >> up
> > >>>> the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the
> line
> > >> is
> > >>>> pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get
> under
> > >> the
> > >>>> coach to inspect ).to the bag.
> > >>>> But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I
> > > check
> > >> it
> > >>>> ?
> > >>>> Thanks for any advice.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> William S. Schurman
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> > >>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> > >>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> > >>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> GMCnet mailing list
> > >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > >>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> William S. Schurman
> > >> box 772806
> > >> Steamboat Springs, CO
> > >> 80477
> > >> 1978 Palm Beach
> > >> TZE168V100258
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> GMCnet mailing list
> > >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > William S. Schurman
> > box 772806
> > Steamboat Springs, CO
> > 80477
> > 1978 Palm Beach
> > TZE168V100258
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
William S. Schurman
box 772806
Steamboat Springs, CO
80477
1978 Palm Beach
TZE168V100258
 
So the compressor comes on but does not air up bag. Yes it could be solenoid dirty or bad? You could use VOM to check for voltage going to it.

> The compressor (Viair) is fairly loud so if there is clicking I do not hear
> it.
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 6:35 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

>
> > Sir, does the raise side you are having issues with make any clicks or
> > anything in the cabinet when you push the switch to raise? If not It could
> > be
> > the switch dirty, they are fairly easy to take apart and clean with an
> > eraser and lube.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >> I have one compressor and not an electronic ride height sensor in the
> >> wheel well.
> >>

> >>
> >>> Do you have one compressor, or two? Do you have electronic ride height
> >>> sensors in the wheel wells?
> >>> Jim Hupy
> >>> Salem, Oregon
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:57 PM w schurman via Gmclist

> >>>
> >>>> I do not know which one but I think that it is Electro=Level II. The
> >>>> controls are to the left of the driver, does this help?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:29 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist >

> >>>>
> >>>> > OK, William,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > By design, the airsprings (airbags) are supposed to be completely
> >>>> > isolated.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Next question:
> >>>> > Is the coach Electro-Level I or Electro-Level II?? BIG Difference.
> >>>> > If you do not know, tell us what you do know.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Matt
> >>>> >
> >>>> >

> >>>> >> I can air up the left rear bag without a problem however I cannot
> > air
> >>>> up
> >>>> >> the right rear bag at all. I have been under the belief that the
> > line
> >>>> is
> >>>> >> pinched to the point that air cannot pass through( I cannot get
> > under
> >>>> the
> >>>> >> coach to inspect ).to the bag.
> >>>> >> But could the problem be with the solenoid and if it is how do I
> >>> check
> >>>> it
> >>>> >> ?
> >>>> >> Thanks for any advice.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> --
> >>>> >> William S. Schurman
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > --
> >>>> > Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> >>>> > Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> >>>> > OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> >>>> > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > GMCnet mailing list
> >>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> William S. Schurman
> >>>> box 772806
> >>>> Steamboat Springs, CO
> >>>> 80477
> >>>> 1978 Palm Beach
> >>>> TZE168V100258
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> William S. Schurman
> >> box 772806
> >> Steamboat Springs, CO
> >> 80477
> >> 1978 Palm Beach
> >> TZE168V100258
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > C. Boyd
> > 76 Crestmont
> > East Tennessee
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
> William S. Schurman
> box 772806
> Steamboat Springs, CO
> 80477
> 1978 Palm Beach
> TZE168V100258
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Bill,
Have the, or have you replaced the pads between the body and frame. When I started working on our air system, and after I replaced the pads, I found
the air line to the passenger side had been crushed -it looked like a penny put on a railroad track.
John
--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
 
John,
I have often thought that might be the problem. Unfortunately I no longer
have my floor jack and stands and my coach is stored at a storage yard with
a gravel surface. When I installed a macerator 7 or so years ago when I did
have the tools and a concrete pad I missed the opportunity to install new
pads. Damn.
Bill

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:38 PM John Shotwell via Gmclist <

> Bill,
> Have the, or have you replaced the pads between the body and frame. When
> I started working on our air system, and after I replaced the pads, I found
> the air line to the passenger side had been crushed -it looked like a
> penny put on a railroad track.
> John
> --
> John Shotwell
> Ridgeville Corners, OH
> 78 Royale Center Kitchen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
William S. Schurman
box 772806
Steamboat Springs, CO
80477
1978 Palm Beach
TZE168V100258
 
You could always just run a new air line over to the pass airbag, sort of a sister line, and let the old one stay. Just don't try to snake it between
the body and frame 😊
John
--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
 
You can easily check the solenoid operation with your hands....just grasp the solenoid and have an assistant flick the switches....if it is functional
you will "feel" the "click". Check all 6....

If they all click but yet it doesnt raise still i would make a bag addapter with schrader valve and go direct to bag....if it lifts you know its the
line.

I also recommend you read how the Electro 1 works just in vase you need to take it further and start playing the solenoids connecter swap game.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600
 
I bet it's the switch. Easy fix.

bdub

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 8:48 PM w schurman via Gmclist <

> John,
> I have often thought that might be the problem. Unfortunately I no longer
> have my floor jack and stands and my coach is stored at a storage yard with
> a gravel surface. When I installed a macerator 7 or so years ago when I did
> have the tools and a concrete pad I missed the opportunity to install new
> pads. Damn.
> Bill
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:38 PM John Shotwell via Gmclist <

>
> > Bill,
> > Have the, or have you replaced the pads between the body and frame.
> When
> > I started working on our air system, and after I replaced the pads, I
> found
> > the air line to the passenger side had been crushed -it looked like a
> > penny put on a railroad track.
> > John
> > --
> > John Shotwell
> > Ridgeville Corners, OH
> > 78 Royale Center Kitchen
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
>
>
> --
> William S. Schurman
> box 772806
> Steamboat Springs, CO
> 80477
> 1978 Palm Beach
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