Advice on improving handling

So We are in Kansas tonight drove it 4 hours straight. Left out on I25 to I70. Not the best roads in the world but there were some spots that were
pretty smooth.

Scott it is not hard to steer in turns it just doesn't want to stay on a smooth curve it wants to "shopping cart" around the curve...best I can
describe.

Habbyguy its was only white knuckle when the drivers side upper ball joint popped out up in Montana. Outside of that it's one hand most of the time
unless it's rutted, multisurfaced or in curves. Then it's not difficult just way too much effort and concentration needed to actually enjoy the drive.
I've driven this thing 1500 miles so far and I've driven a lot of antique trucks so I get the overreaction thing. Heck after driving my 2010 F250
then my wife's car it takes some adjustment.

It mostly acts like a toddler in that as soon as you relax your grip it decides it wants to run off a little ...unless the road is really smooth and
flat. Otherwise it's left,right,left,right etc. Another bad is after 63 mph it starts to fish tail.

I think I need to recenter the steering gearbox. The PO had done that before the new balljoints and alignment. I also think I need some rear wheel
work as far as alignment goes (and maybe some upgrades and or new Bogie pins.) I think the front needs realignment after the the steering box is
reclocked. I may also have a loose suspension part or two as well.

Right now it's more like driving a water balloon than a "van" but if I can make it somewhat enjoyable then I'll probably keep it.

JimK. I plan to get with Ken if and when I ever get back to the Sunny (flat) South. I may give you a call later this week to discuss some of the mods
I have and where I need to go next.

Thanks all.
--
M Beam
75’ Avion Lots of Mods
Zuki Sidekick,
Dozier Al
 
Sounds to me like you are looking at the wrong end of the coach. I think I
would concentrate on bogie pins and bushings first of all. The drill here
is to support the rear (both sides) under the bogie boxes with jack stands
that give full access to suspension movement. Then, disconnect the shocks,
and totally deflate the air bags.
Then, attempt to move individually each tire and wheel assembly towards you
and away from you. If you can feel any movement at all, but not hear any
clunk/clunk sounds, then, you might just get away with a thrust bushing
adjustment. The 1975 shop manual gives an excellent procedure for this. IF
YOU CAN HEAR A DISTINCT CLUNK/CLUNK sound, then, you know what I am going
to say already. It needs to come apart and fitted with new pins and
bushings. $$$$$ more GMC bucks.
Remember, the rear end of a GMC can definitely steer the front. Then
you go down the road playing catch up, correcting the steering inputs you
feel in your butt and inner ear.
One caution on reaming the new bushings. Be very cautious NOT to cut
too much. If those new pins fit too loose, you will duplicate what you have
now.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019, 7:23 PM mtb8114--- via Gmclist
wrote:

> So We are in Kansas tonight drove it 4 hours straight. Left out on I25 to
> I70. Not the best roads in the world but there were some spots that were
> pretty smooth.
>
> Scott it is not hard to steer in turns it just doesn't want to stay on a
> smooth curve it wants to "shopping cart" around the curve...best I can
> describe.
>
> Habbyguy its was only white knuckle when the drivers side upper ball joint
> popped out up in Montana. Outside of that it's one hand most of the time
> unless it's rutted, multisurfaced or in curves. Then it's not difficult
> just way too much effort and concentration needed to actually enjoy the
> drive.
> I've driven this thing 1500 miles so far and I've driven a lot of antique
> trucks so I get the overreaction thing. Heck after driving my 2010 F250
> then my wife's car it takes some adjustment.
>
> It mostly acts like a toddler in that as soon as you relax your grip it
> decides it wants to run off a little ...unless the road is really smooth and
> flat. Otherwise it's left,right,left,right etc. Another bad is after 63
> mph it starts to fish tail.
>
> I think I need to recenter the steering gearbox. The PO had done that
> before the new balljoints and alignment. I also think I need some rear wheel
> work as far as alignment goes (and maybe some upgrades and or new Bogie
> pins.) I think the front needs realignment after the the steering box is
> reclocked. I may also have a loose suspension part or two as well.
>
> Right now it's more like driving a water balloon than a "van" but if I can
> make it somewhat enjoyable then I'll probably keep it.
>
> JimK. I plan to get with Ken if and when I ever get back to the Sunny
> (flat) South. I may give you a call later this week to discuss some of the
> mods
> I have and where I need to go next.
>
> Thanks all.
> --
> M Beam
> 75’ Avion Lots of Mods
> Zuki Sidekick,
> Dozier Al
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Jim,

I think his initial post mentioned that the bogie pins were just serviced. I think I’ve been very well served by the true tracks that my beloved PO installed. Emery also suggested that the rear end might be the issue. Matt (?) suggested the steering box.

I am the poorest shade-tree mechanic on this net but I really thing it’s either the steering box or rear alignment.

Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
 
Jim H,
Can a set of true tracks on the mid trucks fix the effects of bad boogy pins?
Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
 
My advice still stands. I have seen enough bushings reamed too far, to not
be curious enough to double check what is in front of my face. If that
turns out to be the case, then, only the bushings will need to be replaced,
not the pins. But loose is loose. Worth a check for sure. Remember, "NEW IS
JUST THAT, NEW!" Lots of new stuff does not fit or serve us well.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019, 8:03 PM Larry Davick via Gmclist <

> Jim,
>
> I think his initial post mentioned that the bogie pins were just
> serviced. I think I’ve been very well served by the true tracks that my
> beloved PO installed. Emery also suggested that the rear end might be the
> issue. Matt (?) suggested the steering box.
>
> I am the poorest shade-tree mechanic on this net but I really thing it’s
> either the steering box or rear alignment.
>
> Larry Davick
> A Mystery Machine
> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
> Fremont, CA
> Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Tru-Tracks definitely reduce any propensity to movement. So, I guess I
would answer in the affirmative. But, it's no fix for worn out parts. Kinda
like a band aid, I reckon.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

> My advice still stands. I have seen enough bushings reamed too far, to not
> be curious enough to double check what is in front of my face. If that
> turns out to be the case, then, only the bushings will need to be replaced,
> not the pins. But loose is loose. Worth a check for sure. Remember, "NEW IS
> JUST THAT, NEW!" Lots of new stuff does not fit or serve us well.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019, 8:03 PM Larry Davick via Gmclist <

>
>> Jim,
>>
>> I think his initial post mentioned that the bogie pins were just
>> serviced. I think I’ve been very well served by the true tracks that my
>> beloved PO installed. Emery also suggested that the rear end might be the
>> issue. Matt (?) suggested the steering box.
>>
>> I am the poorest shade-tree mechanic on this net but I really thing it’s
>> either the steering box or rear alignment.
>>
>> Larry Davick
>> A Mystery Machine
>> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
>> Fremont, CA
>> Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
 
One other consideration that I don't believe has been mentioned is weight
distribution. If the front end is too light (too much weight in the rear)
it will wander all over the road. Also does anyone know why the manual
shows 0 toe-in for alignment. Most of the time toe-in is what helps a
vehicle track in a straight line. I assume it is because of our rear tandem
wheels. Soo many possible issues. Start addressing them one at a time and
just work thorough the list.

Rich
'76 Elaganza II
Orlando, FL

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:20 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> Tru-Tracks definitely reduce any propensity to movement. So, I guess I
> would answer in the affirmative. But, it's no fix for worn out parts. Kinda
> like a band aid, I reckon.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>

>
> > My advice still stands. I have seen enough bushings reamed too far, to
> not
> > be curious enough to double check what is in front of my face. If that
> > turns out to be the case, then, only the bushings will need to be
> replaced,
> > not the pins. But loose is loose. Worth a check for sure. Remember, "NEW
> IS
> > JUST THAT, NEW!" Lots of new stuff does not fit or serve us well.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 8, 2019, 8:03 PM Larry Davick via Gmclist <

> >
> >> Jim,
> >>
> >> I think his initial post mentioned that the bogie pins were just
> >> serviced. I think I’ve been very well served by the true tracks that my
> >> beloved PO installed. Emery also suggested that the rear end might be
> the
> >> issue. Matt (?) suggested the steering box.
> >>
> >> I am the poorest shade-tree mechanic on this net but I really thing it’s
> >> either the steering box or rear alignment.
> >>
> >> Larry Davick
> >> A Mystery Machine
> >> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
> >> Fremont, CA
> >> Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I believe most front wheel drive vehicles are 0 or towed out a little I always towed mine in a little.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
 
I have no suggestion on solutions.... but suspect everything.

this is way too common of a situation with GMC's. shops replace things and are supposed to know what they are doing, yet problems still persist.
you have to start at the beginning and check everything and really understand how to check everything properly from the bogies to the steering box, to
the steering dampener and alignment.

I have seen dozens of alignments done wrong. one for sure on a GMC's, and plenty of cars/trucks that were done wrong. I have even had a dodge dealer
mess up a fairly new mini-van. wore out a new set of tires in two weeks after getting it back from those "experts". The common thing with the
GMC, is they need to drive it between adjustments. if the suspension is not settled in properly when they check it on the rack, they get a
incorrect reading.

good luck, but hopefully move forward with faith that it can be fixed. A GMC guy I know will tell you "if you are not going down the highway relaxed
with a smile on your face driving your GMC, then there is something that is not right on that GMC, and it needs to be fixed." I have seen many GMC's
repaired back to the point of driving euphoria.

--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
My rear boggie pins are loose and will be replaced this winter. On smooth roads mine still drives pretty good. On a bad road, cross winds, or
ruts..... Its WORK!!

One thing that I notice is that when I have the rear end too high, its much worse!!!! Try lowering your rear height and see it that will help you get
home. GOOD LUCK!!

--
Ken Shaffer
Marion Iowa
73 Canyon Lands, 455, Manny Tranny, Alum radiator, Alcoa wheels, Lenzi hubs/bearings, Howell EFI/EBL, Rostra Cruise, Custom interior
 
Also, does 55 PSI on rear tires seam too low to anyone else? Thought maybe under inflated tires could create an extra "loose backside"
--
Ken Shaffer
Marion Iowa
73 Canyon Lands, 455, Manny Tranny, Alum radiator, Alcoa wheels, Lenzi hubs/bearings, Howell EFI/EBL, Rostra Cruise, Custom interior
 
Ken,
Your correct. It should be min. of 65psi.

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:55 AM Ken Shaffer via Gmclist <

> Also, does 55 PSI on rear tires seam too low to anyone else? Thought
> maybe under inflated tires could create an extra "loose backside"
> --
> Ken Shaffer
> Marion Iowa
> 73 Canyon Lands, 455, Manny Tranny, Alum radiator, Alcoa wheels, Lenzi
> hubs/bearings, Howell EFI/EBL, Rostra Cruise, Custom interior
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
It depends on the weight. My coach is about 1500-1600 pounds on each rear
wheel. The manufacturer load inflation tables suggest 45 psi at that
weight. I run 50.

In the front, I’m at 2100-2200 pounds on each wheel, and I use 65 (the
table says 60).

A 12,000-pound coach will be at 2000-2100 pounds on each rear wheel, and 65
is a good number for that weight.

Too high an inflation reduces the contact patch and rattles the fillings.
To low overheats the tire. Both cause uneven wear.

Rick “noting the OP’s weights and inflation seemed appropriate” Denney

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:55 PM Ken Shaffer via Gmclist <

> Also, does 55 PSI on rear tires seam too low to anyone else? Thought
> maybe under inflated tires could create an extra "loose backside"
> --
> Ken Shaffer
> Marion Iowa
> 73 Canyon Lands, 455, Manny Tranny, Alum radiator, Alcoa wheels, Lenzi
> hubs/bearings, Howell EFI/EBL, Rostra Cruise, Custom interior
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Ken,
The tire pressures set points can depend on the weight of the coach at each
axle. I personally ran 55 psig on our 77 Eleganza II for a number of years
without issue. I presently run 65 PSIG in all tires on our stretch. It's
like tire and oil everyone has a different opinion.

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk Custom 30' Stretch
75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:55 PM Ken Shaffer via Gmclist <

> Also, does 55 PSI on rear tires seam too low to anyone else? Thought
> maybe under inflated tires could create an extra "loose backside"
> --
> Ken Shaffer
> Marion Iowa
> 73 Canyon Lands, 455, Manny Tranny, Alum radiator, Alcoa wheels, Lenzi
> hubs/bearings, Howell EFI/EBL, Rostra Cruise, Custom interior
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Jim H,
Thanks. I will check the pin/bushing condition when I get home. Hopefully it will eliminate it as a problem...hopefully. I agree 100% with this "Lot
of new stuff does not or serve us well". This could also be said about parts made by the big 3 in the 70's. My 1978 Camaro started breaking apart
right after 36k miles including spindles, axles, etc. Then the dash items started breaking and popping parts left and right so I don't have much faith
in the OEM parts from that era either.

Rich
I actually had too much weight up front. Adjusting the weight helped a little early on. Runs best with full tanks so after a couple of hours I adjust
the back height.

Jon
I'm hoping it will improve to the point of being a pleasure to drive. Otherwise there's no point in keeping it because I'm not a GMC enthusiast in
that I would keep it around because It's GMC like I do certain tractors. Thanks for the encouragement.

As far as tire inflation:
After spinning tires halfway up a wet steep mountain cliff road I went with Firestone's recommended inflation rates based on axle weight for better
tread contact patch. I add a few more psi to round up. It's worked pretty good for the last 1000 miles and tire temps have remained pretty good.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I've certainly got a bunch of areas to consider digging into when I get home and it will start with steering box.

--
M Beam
75’ Avion Lots of Mods
Zuki Sidekick,
Dozier Al
 
The other thing you can do in the mean time is relax when you drive and stop fighting the coach.....i know that sounds weird but what i find with
older steering box type vehicles is people tend to try to want to drive the line and end up on the "wheel" all the time.

As a many year owner of high powered classic muscle cars you learn to just let the vehicle float and only make correction when required......so what i
mean is instead of looking up the road 3 car length, like we do with todays cars, look 50 cars up the road and drive to that.....you wont be steering
all the time.

Also try to anticipate the road/trucks etc.....so as an example, when a truck starts coming up the side, i know that its going to push the coach so i
put a little pressure towards the left steering.

If your already driving like this and your coach still drives like a wet noodle, you have worn parts....
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600
 
Very well put, tks

On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 1:19 PM tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist <

> The other thing you can do in the mean time is relax when you drive and
> stop fighting the coach.....i know that sounds weird but what i find with
> older steering box type vehicles is people tend to try to want to drive
> the line and end up on the "wheel" all the time.
>
> As a many year owner of high powered classic muscle cars you learn to just
> let the vehicle float and only make correction when required......so what i
> mean is instead of looking up the road 3 car length, like we do with
> todays cars, look 50 cars up the road and drive to that.....you wont be
> steering
> all the time.
>
> Also try to anticipate the road/trucks etc.....so as an example, when a
> truck starts coming up the side, i know that its going to push the coach so
> i
> put a little pressure towards the left steering.
>
> If your already driving like this and your coach still drives like a wet
> noodle, you have worn parts....
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
> The other thing you can do in the mean time is relax when you drive and stop fighting the coach.....i know that sounds weird but what i find with
> older steering box type vehicles is people tend to try to want to drive the line and end up on the "wheel" all the time.
>
> As a many year owner of high powered classic muscle cars you learn to just let the vehicle float and only make correction when required......so
> what i mean is instead of looking up the road 3 car length, like we do with todays cars, look 50 cars up the road and drive to that.....you wont be
> steering all the time.
>
> Also try to anticipate the road/trucks etc.....so as an example, when a truck starts coming up the side, i know that its going to push the coach
> so i put a little pressure towards the left steering.
>
> If your already driving like this and your coach still drives like a wet noodle, you have worn parts....

Thanks Rich for the suggestion.

My first car was a 1970 Dodge polara 4 door with 180k+ miles and the cheapest used tires I could buy in 1977 and my most recent is a 1972 F250 with
the original closed knuckle 4x4 leaf spring suspension and more miles than could be documented. I'm familiar with floaty driving suspensions. I've now
put just under 2000 miles in 4 weeks on this vehicle. There is something not right with this suspension which doesn't seem to be too far fetched
considering the fragility of its design and the requirement of sooo many things to be just right for it to work correctly. I will figure it out and
will decide at that time if it's something I want to continue to deal with or just cut my losses and unload. Right now this vehicle is coming across
as more of a Novelty vehicle than something I want to invest in for more out of region traveling.

That said I want to acknowledge that the PO has been extremely helpful and Did a fantastic job on the engine and transmission as I haven't had a
single issue with its performance It has pulled the Zuki over the continental divide 13 times like a champ.
--
M Beam
75’ Avion Lots of Mods
Zuki Sidekick,
Dozier Al
 
One thing you can do seeing as you have driving experience is grease the front suspension and see if it tighten things it up a bit....then do the
rear. If there is play the grease will take it up for a little bit and help point you in the right direction.

The other thing is try driving it unloaded....so no water_black water or tow vehicle and see how it is....it could be something as simple as the
trailer hitch isnt centered in the vehicle.

If you were closer id give you a hand to sort it out because i think honestly these coaches, when correct, drive just as well if not better than a
newer square front 14' foot high brick.....lol.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600
 
M Beam:
Get some help from a GMC expert - these coaches when set up correctly drive like a dream. 4 of my 5 (in the past 6 years) have been cross country friendly and a pleasure to drive once set up correctly. Note: I am now down to 3 and one is a project coach - still not sure how it drives.
Mike/The Corvair a holic

Sent from my iPhone

>
> One thing you can do seeing as you have driving experience is grease the front suspension and see if it tighten things it up a bit....then do the
> rear. If there is play the grease will take it up for a little bit and help point you in the right direction.
>
> The other thing is try driving it unloaded....so no water_black water or tow vehicle and see how it is....it could be something as simple as the
> trailer hitch isnt centered in the vehicle.
>
> If you were closer id give you a hand to sort it out because i think honestly these coaches, when correct, drive just as well if not better than a
> newer square front 14' foot high brick.....lol.
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
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