About to get a cheap starter

D

dave silva

New member
Oct 2, 2009
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So in another thread about the right alternator i had a side conversation with Matt in which he said:

"Our starters are specific to the 425 transmission and that have been out of production for 40 years. The dangerous thing about them is that they were
really too robust. They keep trying to work when they should have given up. This means that when they finally quit, they are long past quick "get you
home" fixes. When they do start to have trouble (take this as serious advice), they behave just like that bad electrical connection in the starter
circuit that you have been meaning to look after but she usually cranks for you. Right up until she doesn't."

He was clairvoyant. I think that exact thing was happening at that moment. I am just now bringing this coach out of mothballs. In that situation
you can't tell is something is really broken or if it's just like most of us, a little stiff.

SO it was randomly not starting and i was chasing battery connections until finally it would not start at all. Big click, solenoid is warm. Pretty
sure it's the starter.

I'm going with a cheap reman from autozone because i want it NOW.

Anything i should know?

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
i put in a rebuilt starter from autozone (or some such place). Not sure why you'd refer to it as cheap... are you not getting the right size?

I think I paid $90 after I got my core charge back. I ordered it, and then brought mine in to make sure it was the same size.

Used a floor jack to get it up into place, replaced the electrical line to the battery switch. It took a long time to die- I thought there was
something wrong for a year or more; usually ended up flooding the carb trying to start; now it's great.
--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
Dave asked,"Anything i should know?"

Dave, pay attention to the small connections. One is marked P and the other is S. One is the energize for the solenoid and the other is the by-pass
for the ballast resistor in the old ignitions. They were originally different sizes but most aftermarket are not. If you get them wrong. it won't do
any damage, but things don't work very well.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Feel free to share anything else you think i should know.

I have a three ton floor jack and a hydraulic high lift jack that came with the coach. It's parked on grass.

I don't need to be told to use jack stands.

any other tips?

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
test

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:29 AM dave silva via Gmclist <

> Feel free to share anything else you think i should know.
>
> I have a three ton floor jack and a hydraulic high lift jack that came
> with the coach. It's parked on grass.
>
> I don't need to be told to use jack stands.
>
> any other tips?
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
check napa in stock at all my local stores $109 $50 core charge

nos delco 323-362 on ebay 200 no core charge
ebay and amazon have a deso for $200 core charge anyone try it?
--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
 
With my 1968 Cadillac RWD starter, I kept cracking the very thin
aluminum castings on the reproduction nosecones, until I finally wised
up and swapped the original, thicker nosecone onto a rebuilt starter.

Would that be a possible solution for a replacement? Swapping a the
TH425 FWD nosecone onto a RWD 403/455 starter? Would be easy to just
carry that nosecone instead of a whole starter as a spare... or are
there other differences that would prevent that kind of swap?

-Dave
1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Mike
Hamm via Gmclist
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 2:15 PM
To: gmclist
Cc: Mike Hamm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] About to get a cheap starter

check napa in stock at all my local stores $109 $50 core charge

nos delco 323-362 on ebay 200 no core charge
ebay and amazon have a deso for $200 core charge anyone try it?
--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts

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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Can you drive onto ramps?

Pull the passenger wheel liner out, then you can wiggle in (over the tire) and reach down to a lot of it (wear a headlamp). I think i used the jack
under the starter, and took out the bolts from that vantage point.
Putting the new one in was a mix of under and through the wheel. You know to jack up from the middle (not the sides); I went a bit at a time, and
kept adding wood blocks under the frame.

I broke the solenoid cover (ceramic?) trying to get the wire off it- just ran new lines to that.

Just saw the post about secret cutoff switch to the starter solenoid- you could add that as a theft deterrent.

Be excited for the first start with only a few seconds!

-kelly

> Feel free to share anything else you think i should know.
>
> I have a three ton floor jack and a hydraulic high lift jack that came with the coach. It's parked on grass.
>
> I don't need to be told to use jack stands.
>
> any other tips?

--
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
 
I can't drive on ramps unless i can get it started. I might consider pulling onto a ramp with my truck.

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
Keep the antique core if it is not beyond you to repair or have as parts. And as a rule, I always keep the core until AFTER success with the newly
acquired part.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
>
> Just saw the post about secret cutoff switch to the starter solenoid- you could add that as a theft deterrent.
>
> -kelly

Kelly,

I just added that to my punch list.

Some time back we had a report of a stolen coach here and over on (dare I mention) Facebrook there is a note from a couple that had a newly acquired C
(SOB)
stolen from in front of their house.

Without a running engine, these things are not easy to move quietly and quickly.

Now I am wondering if maybe an ignition interrupt might be better. That way they would waste more time and probably kill the main engine battery
before they gave up. That might give one more time to get the local law enforcement on site.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Through the fender is best.Taking the fenderwell out only takes me about 3 minutes on the GMC. If you jack the CONTROL ARM on that side just until the
frame starts to rise and then put your jackstands in front and rear of the axle ON THE FRAME, you can then take that wheel off and it will easy liner
removal and replacement, and easy access to the starter. be sure the stands are on at least 2X boards, not just dirt and thin plywood. Do not remove
the jack under the control arm without having the tire installed. Disconnect the battery right after you remove the fender liner.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
>
>
> Would that be a possible solution for a replacement? Swapping a the TH425 FWD nosecone onto a RWD 403/455 starter? Would be easy to just
> carry that nosecone instead of a whole starter as a spare... or are there other differences that would prevent that kind of swap?
>
> -Dave
> 1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh

Dave,

The nosecone trick has a lot of charm. I will check with my local (remaining) good shop and fine out if the armatures are the same. That is about
the only other thing that could be different. They probably are. That 10MT starter was used on almost all GM from the early 50s to about last week
(actually late 90s as I recall).

If you are going to carry just the nose with the hope of bolting that on someone else's rebuild, you should probably have a new nose bearing in that
casting. That is not tough to do.

Thanks for the thought. I may have just lightened my spares load.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
One of these starters came up on eBay two yrs ago. At the time I was having troubles with hot start, so decided to try it. Have not had a hot start
issue since.

https://www.partsgeek.com/gyzwfl5-oldsmobile-toronado-starter.html?gb=pp&cid=28884375&aid=4168799401&kid=1100003049199&msclkid=6e55fc55fe141c1ac2f4a335e7dc1857&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%28BSC%29&utm_term=1100003049199&utm_content=Oldsmobile&

Do a "powermaster starter oldsmobile tornado" search. Quite a few choices there.JWID
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
The starter that fits our coaches is a Lester Starter unit which is an=
industrial standard. I was in Ozark, AL staying at a campground for our f=
irst stop on the way home from Titusville, FL. One in our group was having=
issues with his lower A-arm Hex. While we were looking for some parts we =
were driving down a business street and saw a sign that stated Starter and =
Alternators rebuilt. I needed to get a new starter and we stopped and when=
in to inquire about getting one for the road. Typical small town shop wit=
h a little clutter and not well lit. Explained what I wanted and he said I=
know what you want. He built it from scratch pulling parts of the shelves=
and explaining what he was building. The starter motor is different from =
the one used on the Toronado and Eldo. He said that the car version only h=
ad one lead coming out of the starter motor going to the solenoid. The HD v=
ersion has 2 leads attached to the solenoid. That is his story and I am st=
icking to it. I just went out and looked at the spare in the parts cabinet=
and it does has the 2 leads to the back of the solenoid. I was always tol=
d that the GMC starter has the square windings inside the motor, don=
=E2=80=99t know where I heard that at but the old guy said it was true. =
I have always felt that you should get your starter rebuild and a loc=
al rebuilder and not get one from the big box autoparts stores. You can fi=
nd starter for cheap, but you get what you pay for. I know what I am getti=
ng when my local guy down the road does one for me. JR Wright Michig=
an > On Sep 14, 2020, at 9:38 PM, Larry via Gmclist wrote: > > One of these starters came up on eBay two yrs ago. =
At the time I was having troubles with hot start, so decided to try it. Hav=
e not had a hot start > issue since. > > https://www.partsgeek.com/=
gyzwfl5-oldsmobile-toronado-starter.html?gb pp&cid 28884375&aid 41687=
99401&kid 1100003049199&msclkid 6e55fc55fe141c1ac2f4a335e7dc1857&utm_so=
urce bing&utm_medium cpc&utm_campaign Shopping%28BSC%29&utm_term 11=
00003049199&utm_content Oldsmobile& > > Do a "powermaster starter ol=
dsmobile tornado" search. Quite a few choices there.JWID > -- > Larry =
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy > Menomonie, WI. > > ___________________=
____________________________ > GMCnet mailing list > Unsubscribe or Cha=
nge List Options: > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.=
gmcnet.org
 
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