A question..

J

j dexter

New member
Jun 5, 2000
77
0
0
Salutations:

Well - If I can figure out how to scan decent picks sometime without breaking the bindings on what was a 50 .cent pulper - I'll pass 'em along.. If someone else has copy they are not worried about (mine spent most of it's life in 'home wet-library' and is a little brittle), perhaps they could get the pics for the captions I sent in..

OK - I have real question folks.. Please share your thoughts and observations freely..

I was looking over the original concept A-Scale clay drawings at:

http://www.gmcmi.com/history.htm (about half way down)

- - Meanwhile, back at the ranch -

Mrs J Dexter has cleared extra funds for new wheels and tires for the elephant as part of the basic refurbish budget (as opposed to 'all the kuel stuff I would do if we had the cash' budget).. So...

I note that the original designer had much wider rims and tires on the front than came with the elephant ('77 260).. Indeed, I have often wondered why the elephant has triangulated wheel-base (front wheels narrower than rear) in the first place.. This could only amplify the tendency to 'launch' and was wondering if anyone has set up their elephant with wider wheels and rubber in front to try square the outer wheelbase and go for added traction in the front?..

I am assured by local wag - my elephants' general drive train would take full performance rework to engine (one really can toast the marsh-mellos with a 403 big-block if you've got the cash).. So, if I'm going to 16 inch alcoa's - I wonder if it can go an extra inch or two wider on the outside of the front rims with equal fearlessness.. given there are no pesky springs to deal with, I could probably leave the hubs relatively centered on the rim even with wider tire..

My first GLE SAAB 99 came with very narrow rims, which everybody (and ultimately SAAB 900 designers) replaced with extra two inch or so wider rims all round, which in turn really stabilized the car considerably.. I know that I can't and shouldn't screw around in the rear of GMC - but..

Yes, I'm dropping in new shocks and rubber anyway, ball joint - idler arm - and generally having the whole working end of the suspension zeroed and set-up by an actual suspension genius I know (I haven't broached this rim business with him yet - thought I'd try here first - he will take a dim view I'll wager unless I have something concrete to discuss with him)..

- - If - I could get a set of Alcoa rims that would add an extra inch or two across each front wheel.. Am I compromising the bearings (which seem to have an almost pathological hold on everybody's mind here).. Would I need to beef up steering systems or would it take the strain?. Indeed, does anyone know what rims (Alcoa?) I would need to do the trick anyway?..

I know I could spring for custom axles to widen the foot print - but looking at original designs - and based on A Scale model, it kinda looks like a much more square wheel base using wider tires in front rather than larger axel..

I obviously loose spare viability on the front but frankly, if I flatten one - I'm having it fixed or replaced by road service anyway (I'm an old bike guy - I'm weird about rubber) and was going to dump spare tire anyway..

Like I said - any thoughts on this mod would be appreciated before I call around for rims.. Aside from having to wash the fenders more often, can there be any advantage in widening the front wheels? It should work much like spreading the toe as recommended by everybody.. and, of course, allow for decent slicks when I put a nitrous bottle in the glove box and visit Black Rock NV.. :) ..

Seriously, interested in feedback folks..

your pal
J Dexter
 
Lots of talk of these things in the past. I guesss you have read this???

http://www.california.com/~eagle/front.html

gene

>Salutations:
>
>Well - If I can figure out how to scan decent picks sometime without
breaking the bindings on what was a 50 .cent pulper - I'll pass 'em along..
If someone else has copy they are not worried about (mine spent most of
it's life in 'home wet-library' and is a little brittle), perhaps they
could get the pics for the captions I sent in..
>
>OK - I have real question folks.. Please share your thoughts and
observations freely..
>
>I was looking over the original concept A-Scale clay drawings at:
>
>http://www.gmcmi.com/history.htm (about half way down)
>
>- Meanwhile, back at the ranch -
>
>Mrs J Dexter has cleared extra funds for new wheels and tires for the
elephant as part of the basic refurbish budget (as opposed to 'all the kuel
stuff I would do if we had the cash' budget).. So...
>
>I note that the original designer had much wider rims and tires on the
front than came with the elephant ('77 260).. Indeed, I have often wondered
why the elephant has triangulated wheel-base (front wheels narrower than
rear) in the first place.. This could only amplify the tendency to
'launch' and was wondering if anyone has set up their elephant with wider
wheels and rubber in front to try square the outer wheelbase and go for
added traction in the front?..
>
>I am assured by local wag - my elephants' general drive train would take
full performance rework to engine (one really can toast the marsh-mellos
with a 403 big-block if you've got the cash).. So, if I'm going to 16 inch
alcoa's - I wonder if it can go an extra inch or two wider on the outside
of the front rims with equal fearlessness.. given there are no pesky
springs to deal with, I could probably leave the hubs relatively centered
on the rim even with wider tire..
>
>My first GLE SAAB 99 came with very narrow rims, which everybody (and
ultimately SAAB 900 designers) replaced with extra two inch or so wider
rims all round, which in turn really stabilized the car considerably.. I
know that I can't and shouldn't screw around in the rear of GMC - but..
>
>Yes, I'm dropping in new shocks and rubber anyway, ball joint - idler arm
- - and generally having the whole working end of the suspension zeroed and
set-up by an actual suspension genius I know (I haven't broached this rim
business with him yet - thought I'd try here first - he will take a dim
view I'll wager unless I have something concrete to discuss with him)..
>
>- If - I could get a set of Alcoa rims that would add an extra inch or two
across each front wheel.. Am I compromising the bearings (which seem to
have an almost pathological hold on everybody's mind here).. Would I need
to beef up steering systems or would it take the strain?. Indeed, does
anyone know what rims (Alcoa?) I would need to do the trick anyway?..
>
>I know I could spring for custom axles to widen the foot print - but
looking at original designs - and based on A Scale model, it kinda looks
like a much more square wheel base using wider tires in front rather than
larger axel..
>
>I obviously loose spare viability on the front but frankly, if I flatten
one - I'm having it fixed or replaced by road service anyway (I'm an old
bike guy - I'm weird about rubber) and was going to dump spare tire anyway..
>
>Like I said - any thoughts on this mod would be appreciated before I call
around for rims.. Aside from having to wash the fenders more often, can
there be any advantage in widening the front wheels? It should work much
like spreading the toe as recommended by everybody.. and, of course, allow
for decent slicks when I put a nitrous bottle in the glove box and visit
Black Rock NV.. :) ..
>
>Seriously, interested in feedback folks..
>
>your pal
>J Dexter
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
>I note that the original designer had much wider rims and tires on the
>front than came with the elephant ('77 260).. Indeed, I have often
>wondered why the elephant has triangulated wheel-base (front wheels
>narrower than rear) in the first place.. This could only amplify the
>tendency to 'launch' and was wondering if anyone has set up their elephant
>with wider wheels and rubber in front to try square the outer wheelbase
>and go for added traction in the front?..

Jim Bounds has (or had I don't know if he still has them on) much wider
wheels on the "dumpster." The wider wheels and tires did make the GMC very
stable. I don't believe that he changed the front offset though.

>big-block if you've got the cash).. So, if I'm going to 16 inch alcoa's -
>I wonder if it can go an extra inch or two wider on the outside of the
>front rims with equal fearlessness.. given there are no pesky springs to
>deal with, I could probably leave the hubs relatively centered on the rim
>even with wider tire..

You do have those pesky front bearings to be concerned about. GM specified
a 25k miles service interval because they were in such severe service
(loaded pretty close to the limit). Front bearing failure is one of the GMC
weaknesses so I would be vary cautious about making that particular change.
If you really want to do it, I'd recommend that you do some engineering
analysis of your own to determine the new loadings. I do know that there
are several people experimenting with wider tracking widths - maybe they'll
respond off net to you.

Henry
 
J Dexter,
Gene's site has a good synopsis of the discussion on extending the front
wheels. I have found nothing that directly addresses just putting on wider
front tires (i.e. leaving the current dually offset). I can run tire chains
on the front now so I don't think there are any clearance problems. I
searched a little for a wider hub centering rim and tire with no luck. We
could certainly use the extra traction and probably better handling. If you
find a tire/wheel combination let us know. I'd like to try it.

Bob McLaughlin

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-gmcmotorhome
[mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of J Dexter
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 2:54 AM
To: gmcmotorhome
Subject: GMC: A question..

Salutations:

Well - If I can figure out how to scan decent picks sometime without
breaking the bindings on what was a 50 .cent pulper - I'll pass 'em along..
If someone else has copy they are not worried about (mine spent most of it's
life in 'home wet-library' and is a little brittle), perhaps they could get
the pics for the captions I sent in..

OK - I have real question folks.. Please share your thoughts and
observations freely..

I was looking over the original concept A-Scale clay drawings at:

http://www.gmcmi.com/history.htm (about half way down)

- - Meanwhile, back at the ranch -

Mrs J Dexter has cleared extra funds for new wheels and tires for the
elephant as part of the basic refurbish budget (as opposed to 'all the kuel
stuff I would do if we had the cash' budget).. So...

I note that the original designer had much wider rims and tires on the front
than came with the elephant ('77 260).. Indeed, I have often wondered why
the elephant has triangulated wheel-base (front wheels narrower than rear)
in the first place.. This could only amplify the tendency to 'launch' and
was wondering if anyone has set up their elephant with wider wheels and
rubber in front to try square the outer wheelbase and go for added traction
in the front?..

I am assured by local wag - my elephants' general drive train would take
full performance rework to engine (one really can toast the marsh-mellos
with a 403 big-block if you've got the cash).. So, if I'm going to 16 inch
alcoa's - I wonder if it can go an extra inch or two wider on the outside of
the front rims with equal fearlessness.. given there are no pesky springs to
deal with, I could probably leave the hubs relatively centered on the rim
even with wider tire..

My first GLE SAAB 99 came with very narrow rims, which everybody (and
ultimately SAAB 900 designers) replaced with extra two inch or so wider rims
all round, which in turn really stabilized the car considerably.. I know
that I can't and shouldn't screw around in the rear of GMC - but..

Yes, I'm dropping in new shocks and rubber anyway, ball joint - idler arm -
and generally having the whole working end of the suspension zeroed and
set-up by an actual suspension genius I know (I haven't broached this rim
business with him yet - thought I'd try here first - he will take a dim view
I'll wager unless I have something concrete to discuss with him)..

- - If - I could get a set of Alcoa rims that would add an extra inch or two
across each front wheel.. Am I compromising the bearings (which seem to have
an almost pathological hold on everybody's mind here).. Would I need to beef
up steering systems or would it take the strain?. Indeed, does anyone know
what rims (Alcoa?) I would need to do the trick anyway?..

I know I could spring for custom axles to widen the foot print - but looking
at original designs - and based on A Scale model, it kinda looks like a much
more square wheel base using wider tires in front rather than larger axel..

I obviously loose spare viability on the front but frankly, if I flatten
one - I'm having it fixed or replaced by road service anyway (I'm an old
bike guy - I'm weird about rubber) and was going to dump spare tire anyway..

Like I said - any thoughts on this mod would be appreciated before I call
around for rims.. Aside from having to wash the fenders more often, can
there be any advantage in widening the front wheels? It should work much
like spreading the toe as recommended by everybody.. and, of course, allow
for decent slicks when I put a nitrous bottle in the glove box and visit
Black Rock NV.. :) ..

Seriously, interested in feedback folks..

your pal
J Dexter
 
Bob,

Talked with a customer on the phone today and he is telling me about a shop
in Oregon (I think) that will custom build rims. I got their info & intend
on calling to consider building a wider rim to work on the offset proble.

I have had grear success on the stability of my coach with the 12" rims &
10.5" wide tires. It seems that it really performs well (this based not
only on my observations but also on others that have driven my coach at
length).

I think there is something to it, I'll post to let you know how our
discovery goes.

Jim Bounds
- ----------------------------

>J Dexter,
>Gene's site has a good synopsis of the discussion on extending the front
>wheels. I have found nothing that directly addresses just putting on wider
>front tires (i.e. leaving the current dually offset). I can run tire chains
>on the front now so I don't think there are any clearance problems. I
>searched a little for a wider hub centering rim and tire with no luck. We
>could certainly use the extra traction and probably better handling. If you
>find a tire/wheel combination let us know. I'd like to try it.
>
>Bob McLaughlin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-gmcmotorhome
>[mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of J Dexter
>Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 2:54 AM
>To: gmcmotorhome
>Subject: GMC: A question..
>
>
>Salutations:
>
>Well - If I can figure out how to scan decent picks sometime without
>breaking the bindings on what was a 50 .cent pulper - I'll pass 'em along..
>If someone else has copy they are not worried about (mine spent most of it's
>life in 'home wet-library' and is a little brittle), perhaps they could get
>the pics for the captions I sent in..
>
>OK - I have real question folks.. Please share your thoughts and
>observations freely..
>
>I was looking over the original concept A-Scale clay drawings at:
>
>http://www.gmcmi.com/history.htm (about half way down)
>
>- Meanwhile, back at the ranch -
>
>Mrs J Dexter has cleared extra funds for new wheels and tires for the
>elephant as part of the basic refurbish budget (as opposed to 'all the kuel
>stuff I would do if we had the cash' budget).. So...
>
>I note that the original designer had much wider rims and tires on the front
>than came with the elephant ('77 260).. Indeed, I have often wondered why
>the elephant has triangulated wheel-base (front wheels narrower than rear)
>in the first place.. This could only amplify the tendency to 'launch' and
>was wondering if anyone has set up their elephant with wider wheels and
>rubber in front to try square the outer wheelbase and go for added traction
>in the front?..
>
>I am assured by local wag - my elephants' general drive train would take
>full performance rework to engine (one really can toast the marsh-mellos
>with a 403 big-block if you've got the cash).. So, if I'm going to 16 inch
>alcoa's - I wonder if it can go an extra inch or two wider on the outside of
>the front rims with equal fearlessness.. given there are no pesky springs to
>deal with, I could probably leave the hubs relatively centered on the rim
>even with wider tire..
>
>My first GLE SAAB 99 came with very narrow rims, which everybody (and
>ultimately SAAB 900 designers) replaced with extra two inch or so wider rims
>all round, which in turn really stabilized the car considerably.. I know
>that I can't and shouldn't screw around in the rear of GMC - but..
>
>Yes, I'm dropping in new shocks and rubber anyway, ball joint - idler arm -
>and generally having the whole working end of the suspension zeroed and
>set-up by an actual suspension genius I know (I haven't broached this rim
>business with him yet - thought I'd try here first - he will take a dim view
>I'll wager unless I have something concrete to discuss with him)..
>
>- If - I could get a set of Alcoa rims that would add an extra inch or two
>across each front wheel.. Am I compromising the bearings (which seem to have
>an almost pathological hold on everybody's mind here).. Would I need to beef
>up steering systems or would it take the strain?. Indeed, does anyone know
>what rims (Alcoa?) I would need to do the trick anyway?..
>
>I know I could spring for custom axles to widen the foot print - but looking
>at original designs - and based on A Scale model, it kinda looks like a much
>more square wheel base using wider tires in front rather than larger axel..
>
>I obviously loose spare viability on the front but frankly, if I flatten
>one - I'm having it fixed or replaced by road service anyway (I'm an old
>bike guy - I'm weird about rubber) and was going to dump spare tire anyway..
>
>Like I said - any thoughts on this mod would be appreciated before I call
>around for rims.. Aside from having to wash the fenders more often, can
>there be any advantage in widening the front wheels? It should work much
>like spreading the toe as recommended by everybody.. and, of course, allow
>for decent slicks when I put a nitrous bottle in the glove box and visit
>Black Rock NV.. :) ..
>
>Seriously, interested in feedback folks..
>
>your pal
>J Dexter
>
>
>
 
On Mon, 03 Jul 2000 07:42:25 -0700 Henry Davis
writes:

>
> >I note that the original designer had much wider rims and tires on
> the front than came with the elephant ('77 260).. Indeed, I have often
> >wondered why the elephant has triangulated wheel-base (front wheels
> >narrower than rear) in the first place.. This could only amplify
> the >tendency to 'launch' and was wondering if anyone has set up their

> elephant >with wider wheels and rubber in front to try square the
outer
> wheelbase >and go for added traction in the front?..

How about duals on the front? Saw it on a GMC in NH. Owner says it
handles truck ruts better but I can't imagine it would have any other
positives and a whole lot of negatives!

David Lee Greenberg
The GMC Motorhome Registry
Dedicated To The Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://www.GMCss.com/Registry.htm
http://www.Buskirk-RushRV/GMC-Registry/online-registry.htm
 
Jim,
Thanks for the reply. Is there a picture of your coach with the 12" rims on
any site? Those must be some monster tires. I'll be watching for the info
you get from Oregon.
Bob McLaughlin
 
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