A/c Comp Clutch

emerystora

New member
Apr 6, 1999
14,608
2
1
>Well, now my dash air conditioning compressor clutch has just stopped
>engaging - no noise, fan still blows, just hot air, blower fuse OK, fan belt
>OK, dash controls all hooked up. Move lever from "air" to "off", top relay on
>firewall clicks, blower stops.
>
>Schematic for '73 shows "a\c ambient sw R.P.O" with wire going to "a/c comp
>cut-off pressure sw RPO", then to "a/c comp & clutch RPO", then to ground.
>Any clues as to where these are located and what they look like??
>
>Also, where is the main ground for the dash electrical? My dash lights are
>acting funny - turning on and off various things make different lights act
>like Christmas tree lights...on, off, bright, dim, etc.
>
>Thanks,
>Lanier

Lanier - sounds to me that you are low on freon. If you look at the
freon hoses that go to and from the airconditioner /heater box under
the passenger front lid, you'll see one hose that leads to an
aluminum tube that has a gauge tap on it and an electrical switch on
the back side. There is a plug with two wires attached that snaps
onto the switch. This is your "cut off pressure switch" or it is
sometimes called the "low pressure cutoff switch". It is on the high
pressure line that comes from the compressor. If your pressure is
too low, caused by a lack of enough freon, this switch shuts off the
clutch so you don't ruin your compressor. It is in series with the
clutch coil.

To test your system remove the plug from the switch and put a jumper
across the two terminals in the plug. A bent piece of wire will work
well. Now, when you have the engine running and you put the air
conditioner lever in the A/C position you should see and hear your
compressor engage. If you look at the receiver/dryer sight glass (in
the top of the little tank that one of the hoses goes to) you might
see bubbles. You might have to clean the dirt off the sight glass
first. Bubbles are an indication of low freon. If you don't see any
bubbles it either means it is full of freon or it means that it is
empty -- all your freon has leaked out. Empty is more likely. Don't
run the compressor too long with the switch bypassed.

When you put freon into your system you jump this switch to get the
compressor to run and then inject freon into the gauge tap on the low
pressure line (the one without the switch) and the compressor will
suck it into the system. Once you have enough freon in the system to
get the pressure up, you can again reconnect the switch and continue
filling while the air conditioner is running until the bubbles just
go away.

It is not uncommon for a system to go down a 12 oz. can a year
without having an apparent leak. However, if your pressure is so low
the clutch doesn't engage you are probably down 1/2 to 2/3 of your
freon or more. In this case you should try to find out if you have a
leak before refilling it as freon is quite expensive now. The
pre-mid 76 systems held 3-1/2 pounds or 56 oz. which is 4-2/3 of the
12 oz. cans. The later systems held 3-3/4 pounds or 5 - 12 oz. cans.

The main ground for the dash board is a wire that attaches to the
upper center of the metal dash panel on the side toward the
windshield. The original is fairly light gauge. I added a heavy
gauge (10 gauge) wire from the back side of the dash and ran it to my
battery ground wire.

Another place where you might have a bad ground is the strap that
goes from the engine to the frame. Actually there are two of these.
The battery ground wire goes from the battery terminal to a bolt on
the lower front passenger side of the engine block. Two braided
metal straps then go from the engine block to the frame. You should
check out all the connections and perhaps disconnect them and clean
them up and you might find that a whole lot of electrical things
begin to work better.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
 
>Thanks Emery,
>I've jumped both the switch and the plug terminals to no avail - compressor
>clutch still doesn't engage and no bubbles in sight glass. Tried moving lever
>to various positions and only noticeable change is in "Off" when blower shuts
>down.
>It was working and blowing cold yesterday, just quit blowing cold while
>driving. What's next?
>
>Lanier

Perhaps you just have a burnt fuse??

If the clutch doesn't engage, the compressor won't run and you'll
never see any bubbles.

With the engine running and the dash lever set to A/C pull off the
"low pressure cutoff plug" and use a voltmeter to check to see if you
have power at one of the two terminals in the plug. You can also
check to see if you have power at the clutch power lead. If you have
electrical power to the clutch but it doesn't engage you might need a
new clutch.

Emery
 
Lanier,

PMFJI, but just happened to have my elect. schematics at work. There's a
dk. grn. wire comes off the heater control ass'y and runs to the ambient air
switch in the heater box. With A/C turned on, check for 12v where it enters
the heater box(note - both entry and exit are dk. grn. - the exit side goes
to the low pressure cut-out switch). If you don't have 12V there, back up
to the control ass'y to see if you have power there.

If you have 12V at the entry to the ambient air switch, check the dk. grn.
wire at the low pressure cut-out switch. If there's no 12V at the low
pressure switch, then your problem is the ambient air switch(doubtful). If
you have 12V to both the ambient air and low pressure switches, try
temporarily jumpering the low pressure switch. If the clutch still doesn't
engage, then sounds like a bad clutch.

You might also check for continuity on the clutch coil itself.

Good luck,
Patrick

>
> Perhaps you just have a burnt fuse??
>
> If the clutch doesn't engage, the compressor won't run and you'll
> never see any bubbles.
>
> With the engine running and the dash lever set to A/C pull off the
> "low pressure cutoff plug" and use a voltmeter to check to see if you
> have power at one of the two terminals in the plug. You can also
> check to see if you have power at the clutch power lead. If you have
> electrical power to the clutch but it doesn't engage you might need a
> new clutch.
>
> Emery
>
 
Lanier,

Should have also pointed out, if the clutch engages with the low-pressure
switch jumpered, then likely it's time to check for leaks and recharge. The
less likely possibility is a bad low-pressure switch.

Patrick

> If you have 12V to both the ambient air and low pressure switches,
> try temporarily jumpering the low pressure switch. If the clutch
> still doesn't engage, then sounds like a bad clutch.
 
>Lanier,
>
>Should have also pointed out, if the clutch engages with the low-pressure
>switch jumpered, then likely it's time to check for leaks and recharge. The
>less likely possibility is a bad low-pressure switch.
>
>Patrick
>

>
>> If you have 12V to both the ambient air and low pressure switches,
>> try temporarily jumpering the low pressure switch. If the clutch
> > still doesn't engage, then sounds like a bad clutch.

Patrick - thanks for following up with this additional info. I had a
bad cut off switch once and it required complete evacuation, vacuum
pumping and refilling of the system. Quite an expensive process.

Emery
 
>>Thanks Emery,
>>I've jumped both the switch and the plug terminals to no avail - compressor
>>clutch still doesn't engage and no bubbles in sight glass. Tried moving lever
>>to various positions and only noticeable change is in "Off" when blower shuts
>>down.
>>It was working and blowing cold yesterday, just quit blowing cold while
>>driving. What's next?
>>
>>Lanier
>
>Perhaps you just have a burnt fuse??
>
>If the clutch doesn't engage, the compressor won't run and you'll
>never see any bubbles.
>
>With the engine running and the dash lever set to A/C pull off the
>"low pressure cutoff plug" and use a voltmeter to check to see if
>you have power at one of the two terminals in the plug. You can
>also check to see if you have power at the clutch power lead. If
>you have electrical power to the clutch but it doesn't engage you
>might need a new clutch.
>
>Emery
DId you check to see that you had power to the circuit ie. did you
also check to see that 12v was going to the clutch, or 12v going to
the switch.
al
 
Yep, with the price of R12 being what it is... Might be a good time to
consider R134.

Patrick

>
> Patrick - thanks for following up with this additional info. I had a
> bad cut off switch once and it required complete evacuation, vacuum
> pumping and refilling of the system. Quite an expensive process.
>
> Emery
>
 
>Yep, with the price of R12 being what it is... Might be a good time to
>consider R134.
>
>Patrick
>

The only thing wrong with R134a is that all the air conditioning
folks that i have talked with tell me that it will give 10 to 15%
less cooling than the R12 if used in an R12 designed system. So,
I'll stick with R12 as long as I can keep buying it, as the air
conditioning system isn't actually enough for the Southwestern states
in the hot summer, even with R12.

At the Durnago rally I saw Jim Anstett's (think I spelled it right
this time Jim - sorry :) solution which was to add an additional
evaporator coil under the passenger's seat. I'm looking for one
right now to add to mine. I think it gave about 3 times the cooling
as the original dash unit with the original compressor. Of course,
I'll have to dump over $100 of Freon 12 to make the modification, but
I think it'll be worth it in comfort!!!

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
 
This is a whole 'nother can-o-worms. While the system will lose 10-15%
efficiency, IMO we've got the capacity to spare(as evidenced by being able
to add another evaporator). The problem seems to be getting the cold air
out of the little black box.

Patrick

> >
> The only thing wrong with R134a is that all the air conditioning
> folks that i have talked with tell me that it will give 10 to 15%
> less cooling than the R12 if used in an R12 designed system. So,
> I'll stick with R12 as long as I can keep buying it, as the air
> conditioning system isn't actually enough for the Southwestern states
> in the hot summer, even with R12.
>
> At the Durnago rally I saw Jim Anstett's (think I spelled it right
> this time Jim - sorry :) solution which was to add an additional
> evaporator coil under the passenger's seat. I'm looking for one
> right now to add to mine. I think it gave about 3 times the cooling
> as the original dash unit with the original compressor. Of course,
> I'll have to dump over $100 of Freon 12 to make the modification, but
> I think it'll be worth it in comfort!!!
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
>
 
>Emery: Go to an A/C shop and have them recover the Freon. Even if you do the
>work at home, don't dump the Freon. Most shops will even buy it from you.
>Dean Hanson

Dean - thanks for the suggestion. I was wondering about that.

Emery
 
Lanier,

The only fuse should be a 25A marked "HTR A/C" on the coach fuse panel
according to my schematic(73-74). Should be the same fuse as the blower
motor. Check for 12V at the ambient air switch first(with the A/C control
and ign. switch ON). If you got power there, everything upstream is OK.
Plus, it and the low pressure switch are the easiest to get to.

Patrick

>
> The only fuse I've found is in the glove box and controls the
> blower motor - it's OK. Is there an in-line fuse somewhere?
>
> Lanier
> Jackson, Mississippi
> FMCA # 37894
> '73 GMC Excalibur
> '29 Mercedes SSK Roadster
> '94 Geo Tracker (BN TOAD)
>
> "Once the game is over,
> the king and the pawn go
> back in the same box."
> --Italian Proverb
>
 
>Em from everything I am finding out R134A actually cools better than R12.
>The problem is that if you install it in an old system, since it has higher
>head pressures the system is prone to fail.I am just going to install a new
>compressor for $119 and then charge it with 134a.
>
>tom

Tom - sorry but I can't agree with you on this one. The Chemical
Engineer in me just won't let me. If you do a energy heat balance
using the latent heat of vaporization, and the specific heat of the
two types of freon it will take more mechanical energy to get the
same amount of cooling out of R134a. Conversely, at the same amount
of input mechanical energy you will get more cooling out of R12.
Now, if the whole system is specifically designed for R134a with a
specific compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve you'll
get excellent cooling with R134a. I can find a lot of web site info
that supports my statement on this.

Not wanting to start a flaming war on air conditioning coolants I
plan to bow out of this one in advance and let whoever feels like
arguing take it over. I've leaving for Phoenix in the AM and just
hope my R12 helps keep me cool. Its probably about 116 in the shade
there and there isn't much shade under the Saguaros. See you all in
a couple of weeks.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
 
Look for an electrical connection on the passenger side of the heater
box - IIRC, it's right next to the low pressure cut-out.

Patrick

>
> Where is the ambient air switch? The blower works with the fuse in, quits
> with it out, so must have 12v at fuse block.
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Okay - just trotted outside and looked at my coach. The connection
isn't on the side of the box. A pair of wires enter the passenger side
of the heater box(taped together in my case). The connector for these
wires is right behind the low pressure switch, and one wire goes
directly from that connector to the low pressure switch.

HTH,
Patrick

>
> Look for an electrical connection on the passenger side of the heater
> box - IIRC, it's right next to the low pressure cut-out.
>

> >
> > Where is the ambient air switch? The blower works with the fuse in, quits
> > with it out, so must have 12v at fuse block.
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
better leave tonight, much cooler...

have a good trip

gene

>>Em from everything I am finding out R134A actually cools better than R12.
>>The problem is that if you install it in an old system, since it has higher
>>head pressures the system is prone to fail.I am just going to install a new
>>compressor for $119 and then charge it with 134a.
>>
>>tom
>
>Tom - sorry but I can't agree with you on this one. The Chemical Engineer
>in me just won't let me. If you do a energy heat balance using the latent
>heat of vaporization, and the specific heat of the two types of freon it
>will take more mechanical energy to get the same amount of cooling out of
>R134a. Conversely, at the same amount of input mechanical energy you will
>get more cooling out of R12. Now, if the whole system is specifically
>designed for R134a with a specific compressor, condenser, evaporator and
>expansion valve you'll get excellent cooling with R134a. I can find a lot
>of web site info that supports my statement on this.
>
>Not wanting to start a flaming war on air conditioning coolants I plan to
>bow out of this one in advance and let whoever feels like arguing take it
>over. I've leaving for Phoenix in the AM and just hope my R12 helps keep
>me cool. Its probably about 116 in the shade there and there isn't much
>shade under the Saguaros. See you all in a couple of weeks.
>
>Emery Stora
>77 Kingsley
>Santa Fe, NM

Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
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