6 bolts of separation?

[boybach]

Ok I've read all the gotchas on reassembling the steering CV joint to the upper section and how only ONE way is the right way .. I may have been lucky
putting it back where it was as I went for a test drive and nothing seemed to bind or be amiss .....so what can and does happen if it's assembled in
one of the 5 other positions?

Jes' wonderin'

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..

 

[Carl Stouffer]

Just a lot of wandering.

--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[boybach]

> Just a lot of wandering.

Why? Not sure I get why that would happen?

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..

 

[Carl Stouffer]

The steering box on a GMC has to be exactly on center. If not, it will steer to one side or another instead of straight.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[sgltrac]

Why would you rip that joint apart haphazardly AFTER everyone here
explained that it should be marked prior to disassembly? That’s my
question.

Sully
Bellevue wa

> The steering box on a GMC has to be exactly on center. If not, it will
> steer to one side or another instead of straight.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

 

[boybach]

The steering box is on center, I just did that. What I'm wondering is why the CV joint 6 bolts can only be put together ONE way.

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..

 

[Jim Hupy]

It will go together. But only one way correctly aligns so that your
steering wheel points straight ahead, while the bolt on the steering box
precisely aligns with the hole in the lower collar while the steering box
is exactly centered.
If you have a coach that you cannot keep in one lane with one hand on
the steering wheel, and wanders around, odds are pretty good that it is not
indexed correctly. But, it's your coach, you get to decide.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

> The steering box is on center, I just did that. What I'm wondering is why
> the CV joint 6 bolts can only be put together ONE way.
>
> Larry
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything
> working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

 

[boybach]

> Why would you rip that joint apart haphazardly AFTER everyone here
> explained that it should be marked prior to disassembly? That’s my
> question.
>
> Sully
> Bellevue wa

>
> > The steering box on a GMC has to be exactly on center. If not, it will
> > steer to one side or another instead of straight.
> > --
> > Carl Stouffer
> > '75 ex Palm Beach
> > Tucson, AZ.
> > Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> > Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> > Eagles,
> > Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:

I marked it and put it together correctly; I just want to know what are the symptoms of putting it back incorrectly?

Larry

--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..

 

[boybach]

> It will go together. But only one way correctly aligns so that your
> steering wheel points straight ahead, while the bolt on the steering box
> precisely aligns with the hole in the lower collar while the steering box
> is exactly centered.
> If you have a coach that you cannot keep in one lane with one hand on
> the steering wheel, and wanders around, odds are pretty good that it is not
> indexed correctly. But, it's your coach, you get to decide.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>

>
> > The steering box is on center, I just did that. What I'm wondering is why
> > the CV joint 6 bolts can only be put together ONE way.
> >
> > Larry
> > --
> > Larry - Victoria BC -
> >
> > 1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything
> > working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:

Allright. In theory then, if the steering box is on center and the splines/bolt is aligned, the blue shaft is in its marked position and the CV joint
is offered up to the steering column. The top plate with it's six bolt holes is connected to the steering wheel and has been marked in relation to the
CV joint. If, instead of attaching it in the marked position, the steering wheel is turned so that the bolts index on to the adjacent hole, (one bolt
position "out") what would be the result OTHER than the steering wheel being off some degrees from the correct position? Even if it was 180 degrees
out, surely that would just mean the steering wheel would be set cockeyed? I just can't see how this would cause the coach to wander, could someone
explain that?
All I could see it doing would the wheel looking like it was in the turning position while actually driving straight ahead.

What am I missing here?

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..

 

[RF_Burns]

IF you now have your steering box on-center when going straight down the road, but your intermediate shaft is not clocked correctly, then your
steering wheel will not be at 12 O-clock.

The big issue would not be your directional signal switch would not cancel correctly. It would cancel too soon, too late or maybe not cancel at all
in one direction.

There maybe other ramifications, but that is the one that comes to mind.

In order to get the steering wheel straight with the steering box on-center and your directional signal to cancel correctly, there is only one way for
the entire assembly to go together. But it will go together in multiple wrong ways.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

 

[boybach]

> IF you now have your steering box on-center when going straight down the road, but your intermediate shaft is not clocked correctly, then your
> steering wheel will not be at 12 O-clock.
>
> The big issue would not be your directional signal switch would not cancel correctly. It would cancel too soon, too late or maybe not cancel at
> all in one direction.
>
> There maybe other ramifications, but that is the one that comes to mind.
>
> In order to get the steering wheel straight with the steering box on-center and your directional signal to cancel correctly, there is only one way
> for the entire assembly to go together. But it will go together in multiple wrong ways.

Thank You!

That's what I suspected but hadn't thought about the turn signal cancellation. Makes sense!

Cheers

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..

 

[boybach]

> If I am to understand this, the problem has to do with the relation of the cinch bolt in the top half of the cv joint to the spline. That
> relationship is made by the assembly rotation vis the 6 bolt joint. In other words, if the cinch bolt didn't have to go in the flat, the rotational
> order of the 6 bolts wouldn't matter. Yes? No? Way the heck off??
>
> Cheers

I believe you are correct! so YES

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach VIN TZE167V101295 - 39,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New wiper blades, New SS exhaust system ..

 

[Matt Colie]

Larry,

When I wrote that it took me a day and an half to get mine straightened around, that was not any exaggeration. There are so many ways to play
mix-n-match with those parts that it is mind boggling.

When, with the advice and remote assistance of Dave Lenzi, I got started right. When I realized that the chisel mark under the horn button was a
clue, that was just the beginning. That was after I had paid Harold's frame shop to tell me I needed a bunch of new parts (which was not even close
to a fact) as can be seen because all the parts they wanted to replace are still in there 70K miles and 15 years later.

It also didn't help that rather than get that lower U-joint on correctly, someone just hammered the fastener through flattening the threads in the
process.

Of N possible combinations, I believe I actually tried about N-1 before the steering wheel was right. But then, toe was out to lunch. My toe gauge
that I used for years was a salvaged car antenna. It worked great for little cars, but was not even close to the coach track width. So, I set the
wheel at straight ahead and clamped a 2x4 to the wheel and the used MK1 eyeball to sight both front tires on the rear tires. When I got overlap of
both was about half the difference of the track width and the same on both sides, I took her out for a road test. Center was pretty good, but she was
toed out a little too much. This process took several iterations because I had to pull into my barn to have a surface to work on to jack and crank on
the tie rods. I did finally get it right.

Side note: After I replaced front frame and a lot of parts, I took her to a local truck tire shop to have them set the alignment. They didn't mess
with caster and camber which was good because he screwed up the toe so it was worse than when I came in. I complained, and fixed it myself (Again!).

I hate it when to pay someone to screw things up.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[Richard RV]

> I just can't see how this would cause the coach to wander, could someone explain that?
> All I could see it doing would be the wheel looking like it was in the turning position while actually driving straight ahead.
> What am I missing here?
> Larry

It's not just about the steering wheel being straight or the turn signals not shutting off correctly. Those are just annoyances that have nothing to
do with the coach going straight.

Alex Ferrara, our lamentably absent GMC steering guru, explained it to me this way. When the steering box is truly centered the internals are in
equilibrium and it wants to go straight. When you turn the wheel even a little bit it cracks open a spool that lets a little pressure off (or
increases it...I shoulda taken notes!) and the coach will then gently drift in that direction. It will want to go back to that centered equilibrium
position and drive straight. If the box is not truly centered that self-centering effect is gone and the coach hunts or wanders.

Richard

--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach with 18,477 verified miles;
‘76 Edgemonte

 

[Jim Hupy]

If you are firmly convinced that you have done everything within your
capabilities to put the front end "perfect", and it still wanders, then
look in the mirror. There you will find the source of the wandering.
Before you feel offended, let me finish. The coach will not wander by
itself. If indeed all is perfect from the tire inflation pressures to the
steering wheel, then it is reacting to steering wheel inputs.
Here is what actually happens. As your seat moves beneath your butt,
and you translate that movement throughout your body and brain, autonomic
response is to counter that motion with a steering wheel adjustment. This
is known as "seat of the pants response" Every pilot and skipper knows
exactly what I am talking about.
Many factors influence this response. Crosswinds, traffic that
overtakes you like a big semi-truck and trailer, road surface conditions,
(all external forces beyond our control), and mechanical issues with the
rear bogies, pins, bushings, rear ride height, bent parts, misaligned rear
suspension, etc. Yes, the back of the coach can and does steer the coach.
To sum all this up, if the front end is perfect, the cause of your
wandering is not in the front end. That leaves the rear of the coach as a
likely culprit. 40 year old stuff engineered in the 1960's and driven all
these years, just where I would look if I and you traded places. Worth a
look see.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

> > I just can't see how this would cause the coach to wander, could someone
> explain that?
> > All I could see it doing would be the wheel looking like it was in the
> turning position while actually driving straight ahead.
> > What am I missing here?
> > Larry
>
> It's not just about the steering wheel being straight or the turn signals
> not shutting off correctly. Those are just annoyances that have nothing to
> do with the coach going straight.
>
> Alex Ferrara, our lamentably absent GMC steering guru, explained it to me
> this way. When the steering box is truly centered the internals are in
> equilibrium and it wants to go straight. When you turn the wheel even a
> little bit it cracks open a spool that lets a little pressure off (or
> increases it...I shoulda taken notes!) and the coach will then gently
> drift in that direction. It will want to go back to that centered
> equilibrium
> position and drive straight. If the box is not truly centered that
> self-centering effect is gone and the coach hunts or wanders.
>
> Richard
>
>
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777;
> '76 Palm Beach with 18,477 verified miles;
> ‘76 Edgemonte
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

 

[billvv]

Quote:
> Allright. In theory then, the steering box is on center and the splines/bolt is aligned, the blue shaft is in its marked position and the CV joint
> is ready to be offered up to the steering column. The top plate with it's six bolt holes is connected to the steering wheel and has been marked in
> relation to the CV joint. If, instead of attaching it in the marked position, the steering wheel is turned so that the bolts index on to the
> adjacent hole, (one bolt position "out") what would be the result OTHER than the steering wheel being off some degrees from the correct position?

But an alignment shop won't send you out that way, so they adjust the tie rods so that the steering wheel comes back to center which pushes the
steering box off center.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.

 

[Ken H.]

The flexible swing arms in the rear suspension can very definitely allow
the rear of the coach to steer, and feel like it's because of the front
end. Most coaches probably have both excessive wear in the bushings and
bent arms so that the alignment is wrong. Even loose wheel bearings back
there can have an effect. While it's important to minimize all those
errors, the flexibility of the swing arms can still impact steering. The
best fix I've found for those is the installation of "True Tracks" (which
are merely large roller bearings, known as "cam followers", attached to the
ends of the arms and running in vertical tracks attached to the frame) on,
especially, the center wheels. Of all the things I've done to my
suspension ('most everything anyone's thought of) during the past 22 years,
that was the most beneficial -- I WOULD NOT do without them now.

If you want to do your own wheel alignment, front and rear, accurately, my
procedure has worked well for me: Wheel Alignment Jigs - (gmcmhphotos.com)
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5634-wheel-alignment-jigs.html

Ken H.

On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 7:13 PM Bill Van Vlack
wrote:

> Quote:
> > Allright. In theory then, the steering box is on center and the
> splines/bolt is aligned, the blue shaft is in its marked position and the
> CV joint
> > is ready to be offered up to the steering column. The top plate with
> it's six bolt holes is connected to the steering wheel and has been marked
> in
> > relation to the CV joint. If, instead of attaching it in the marked
> position, the steering wheel is turned so that the bolts index on to the
> > adjacent hole, (one bolt position "out") what would be the result OTHER
> than the steering wheel being off some degrees from the correct position?
>
> But an alignment shop won't send you out that way, so they adjust the tie
> rods so that the steering wheel comes back to center which pushes the
> steering box off center.
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>