455 Oil Consumption

[brent covey]

Hi Ken-

There are a few things come to mind-

#1 is is there a chance you are using the wrong dipstick, or the tube it
attaches to? Perhaps the engine is being slightly overfilled and foaming up
the top quart or so from windage. This will make for very high oil
consumption until the level drops a bit. Many factory GM engines I've had
burned the top 1/2 quart off in 250 miles, then essentially *nothing* for
the next 3000. Even correct parts can occasionally be slightly out of
calibration.

The only three ways out of the sump the oil can leave without leaving a
visible external leak is past the piston oil rings, down the valve guides or
up the PCV tubes. a Quart in 100 miles is very visible as exhaust smoke
usually if its being burnt, you'd have a good blue haze following you.
Judging from the compression, it doesnt seem too likely its rings. Does the
blowby 'puff' or pulsate?

If its going down the guides, it will be quite sensitive to throttle
opening, probably use much less at 75 mph than 50 mph- with rings, the
reverse would be true as a rule.

In light of the fact the engines just been overhauled, I suspect oil level
might be the issue. You may want to drain and refill it by the book to
ensure that its not overfilled. Theres other possibilities of course, but
lets not get too worried yet;-)

Good luck!

Brent Covey
Vancouver BC

> Help!
>
> I rebuilt the engine in my 76 Birchaven about 3000 miles ago

> and quiet and has plenty of power but is using a quart of oil every one to
> two hundred miles! There are no oil leaks visible -- except in the air
> cleaner.

 

[david l greenberg]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:43:50 -0800 "Brent Covey"
writes:
>Hi Ken-
>
>There are a few things come to mind-
>
>#1 is is there a chance you are using the wrong dipstick, or the tube
>it
>attaches to? Perhaps the engine is being slightly overfilled and
>foaming up
>the top quart or so from windage. This will make for very high oil
>consumption until the level drops a bit. Many factory GM engines I've
>had
>burned the top 1/2 quart off in 250 miles, then essentially *nothing*
>for
>the next 3000.

I recalibrated my dipstick and reduced oil consumption from 800 mpq to
1200 mpq; and this on an engine with over 300,000 miles on it! The 1/2 qt
would disappear after 50 miles and without realizing it I was over
filling the crancase.

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
200 MacFarlane Drive PH4
Delray Beach, FL 33483-6829
ww.gmcss.com/registry.htm

 

[blank]

Ken, don't know whether or not you are aware pf ot pr not, but GMC's have an
inordinate amount of intake manifold trouble due to the very poor design of the
Toronado intake manifold. It was designed to keep the hood line of the Toro very
low and lends itself to our coachs in keeping the floors low. However that design
also has a lot of problems with cracking and also due to the heat buildup under
the hood, the have a tendency to warp when initially removed from the original
engine. So the vacuum inside the maniflod would tend to suck oil from the lifter
galley and burn it in the cylinders. You would have so much compression, due to
all the new parts, that the combustion would completely burn the oil, hence no
smoke. Been there, done that.
My .02$
Pat 77 Birch

> Help!
>
> I rebuilt the engine in my 76 Birchaven about 3000 miles ago: 0.030
> overbore, pistons/pins/rings, Caspro cam and roller chain, new
> valves/guides/springs/seals, main & rod bearings, etc.,etc. It runs smooth
> and quiet and has plenty of power but is using a quart of oil every one to
> two hundred miles! There are no oil leaks visible -- except in the air
> cleaner. The PVC valve tested good but I replaced it with a new one as well
> as a new crankcase vent filter. All hoses are in good shape. I've got 20"Hg
> of vacuum on the PCV valve -- but slight positive pressure at the left valve
> cover grommet, even at idle.
>
> The compression is 170 +-5 psi on all cylinders and the idle vacuum is 20"Hg
> so I'm sure it's not blowby "eating" my vacuum. But I can't find where I'm
> losing it.
>
> Any ideas, PLEASE?
>
> Ken Henderson

 

[g.m. hope]

>I recalibrated my dipstick and reduced oil consumption from 800 mpq to
>1200 mpq; and this on an engine with over 300,000 miles on it! The 1/2 qt
>would disappear after 50 miles and without realizing it I was over
>filling the crancase.

Out of curiosity, how do you recalibrate a dipstick?

Cheers
Marion Hope
77 Kingsley

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
George M.(Marion) Hope, Ph.D.
1930 SW 19th Way gmhope
Gainesville, FL 32608 gmhope
(352) 371-2795 (Home) (352) 846-2111 (Office)

 

[darren paget]

The plugs I received with my Edelbrock manifold just were set into place in the
crossover ports. No welding required. That new manifold sure looks nice sitting
on top of that 455. You will like it Arch.

> In a message dated 01/14/2000 7:20:02 PM Central Standard Time,

>
> > I now know, but didn't when I reassembled
> > the engine, that I probably should have plugged that exhaust passage. Do
> > the
> > available plugs completely plug it?
>
> Ken you can get plugs from Edelbrock that will completely block off
> the ports. They have to be welded in. Get somebody who welds
> heads to do it for you. You got to heat them up and bring them down slow.
> Now if you want a set of SS postage stamps to put over the ports I
> have a set of Mondello block offs I will give you. I will give them to you
> because if I sold them to you for more than a dollar I would feel guilty.
> They are real thin---not cool. The Ed blocks are big chunks of cast iron
> that slip down into the ports. Now I dont know if Ed just wants you to just
> put them in the hole or weld them in. There were no instructions. If you
> want to weld them in then cut a little off here and there so they will slide
> in far enough to get a good bead inside the port not on top of it.
>
> I will also add one other comment. I have no idea how the manifolds
> on our ladies ever survive. On the bottom you have exhaust gases
> at very high temperatures on one side on top you have gasoline being
> vaporized. That is a sever temperature difference. My honest thought
> is if you have your manifold off---cast iron that is get it magna-fluxed.
> Mine was clean and I mean bead blasted clean and I did not see the
> cracks.
>
> Take Care
> Arch

- --

Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
http://www.TZEplus.com

 

[david l greenberg]

>Out of curiosity, how do you recalibrate a dipstick?
>
>Cheers
>Marion Hope
>77 Kingsley
>

When I changed oil and filter, I refilled the crankcase, started the
engine to fill the filter and check for leaks, let the coach sit
overnight and when I checked the dip stick I was about a half quart low.

I took a file and cut a new mark about where the oil showed.

In the past I would drive a couple of hours and find I had lost a 1/2
quart. Now I don't.

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
200 MacFarlane Drive PH4
Delray Beach, FL 33483-6829
ww.gmcss.com/registry.htm

 

[thomas g. warner]

Arch the problem was that the 455 in standard configuration pumps a lot of
oil to the top when the engine RPMs go up. That is why Mondello puts the oil
restictors in the mains. He even made a window in the 455 pan so he could
watch the level of oil go down as RPMs increased and found the RPM that oil
level was critical.

It does run back into the pan very quickly from the heads as you can tell by
changing the oil and immediately within a couple of minutes can get a quite
accurate reading. When the oil is hot it flows even faster.

Using that amount of oil I would have to agree with previous statments that
the first thing I would check is the plugs for oil or carbon residue. If
there is no residue on the plugs and if the compression (I think it should
be closer to 175# per cylinder when it is properly put together) was good
and you installed good quality rings gapped correctly and good valve guides
with the correct valve stem diameters set to the proper clearances (thats
critical to not burning oil) than i would suspect your rings are not seated
yet. By the way you are not running synthetic oil are you? If you are thats
the problem.



>In a message dated 01/14/2000 8:37:57 PM Central Standard Time,

>
>> Put in the dipstick let it set for awhile to make sure
>> that the oil is complete in the crankcase and pull the stick out and see
>> where the oil line is.
>
>Emery
>
>I would like add to this if I may. Once you have established what is the right
>level for the oil in your lady here is another tip. When you make a fuel stop
>do not stick the nozzle in the tank and then read the oil. Let the lady
>take on fuel---go in and pay then read oil level. These engines are known
>for accumulating oil in the top end. Even hot it takes time to drain
>back down. Patients my friend patients.
>
>Take Care
>Arch
>
>

 

[jerry & meri]

So what is the best manifold to replace it with?

> Ken, don't know whether or not you are aware pf ot pr not, but GMC's have an
> inordinate amount of intake manifold trouble due to the very poor design of the
> Toronado intake manifold. It was designed to keep the hood line of the Toro very
> low and lends itself to our coachs in keeping the floors low. However that design
> also has a lot of problems with cracking and also due to the heat buildup under
> the hood, the have a tendency to warp when initially removed from the original
> engine. So the vacuum inside the maniflod would tend to suck oil from the lifter
> galley and burn it in the cylinders. You would have so much compression, due to
> all the new parts, that the combustion would completely burn the oil, hence no
> smoke. Been there, done that.
> My .02$
> Pat 77 Birch
>

>
> > Help!
> >
> > I rebuilt the engine in my 76 Birchaven about 3000 miles ago: 0.030
> > overbore, pistons/pins/rings, Caspro cam and roller chain, new
> > valves/guides/springs/seals, main & rod bearings, etc.,etc. It runs smooth
> > and quiet and has plenty of power but is using a quart of oil every one to
> > two hundred miles! There are no oil leaks visible -- except in the air
> > cleaner. The PVC valve tested good but I replaced it with a new one as well
> > as a new crankcase vent filter. All hoses are in good shape. I've got 20"Hg
> > of vacuum on the PCV valve -- but slight positive pressure at the left valve
> > cover grommet, even at idle.
> >
> > The compression is 170 +-5 psi on all cylinders and the idle vacuum is 20"Hg
> > so I'm sure it's not blowby "eating" my vacuum. But I can't find where I'm
> > losing it.
> >
> > Any ideas, PLEASE?
> >
> > Ken Henderson

 

[blank]

It is still very possible to find a stock Toro intake manifold. Then you need to
take it to a good automotive machine shop and have them check the surfaces for
straightness and also magnaa flux it to be sure that there are no cracks. Then I would
recomend filling the eshaust port through the middle fo the manifold with some of
Mondello's filler, hence no more problems with warpage. That is the only way to remedy
the problem and keep your floor the same level it was built. If you don't mind raising
your floor a few inches, you can replace the stock manifold with an Edelbrock.
Personally, even though you can supposedly get a bit of performance from the Edelbrock,
I prefer to leave my floor at a stock level. Just my preference.
Pat 77 Birch

> So what is the best manifold to replace it with?
>

>
> > Ken, don't know whether or not you are aware pf ot pr not, but GMC's have an
> > inordinate amount of intake manifold trouble due to the very poor design of the
> > Toronado intake manifold. It was designed to keep the hood line of the Toro very
> > low and lends itself to our coachs in keeping the floors low. However that design
> > also has a lot of problems with cracking and also due to the heat buildup under
> > the hood, the have a tendency to warp when initially removed from the original
> > engine. So the vacuum inside the maniflod would tend to suck oil from the lifter
> > galley and burn it in the cylinders. You would have so much compression, due to
> > all the new parts, that the combustion would completely burn the oil, hence no
> > smoke. Been there, done that.
> > My .02$
> > Pat 77 Birch
> >

> >
> > > Help!
> > >
> > > I rebuilt the engine in my 76 Birchaven about 3000 miles ago: 0.030
> > > overbore, pistons/pins/rings, Caspro cam and roller chain, new
> > > valves/guides/springs/seals, main & rod bearings, etc.,etc. It runs smooth
> > > and quiet and has plenty of power but is using a quart of oil every one to
> > > two hundred miles! There are no oil leaks visible -- except in the air
> > > cleaner. The PVC valve tested good but I replaced it with a new one as well
> > > as a new crankcase vent filter. All hoses are in good shape. I've got 20"Hg
> > > of vacuum on the PCV valve -- but slight positive pressure at the left valve
> > > cover grommet, even at idle.
> > >
> > > The compression is 170 +-5 psi on all cylinders and the idle vacuum is 20"Hg
> > > so I'm sure it's not blowby "eating" my vacuum. But I can't find where I'm
> > > losing it.
> > >
> > > Any ideas, PLEASE?
> > >
> > > Ken Henderson

 

[thomas g. warner]

Pat no matter how well you do the intake manifold it is never as good as
filling the heads. Filling the exhaust crossovers in the intake will always
cause some erosion due to the thickness of the intake manifold gasket. I
believe that filling the intake exhaust crossovers will lead to even more
troubles in the future.

> It is still very possible to find a stock Toro intake manifold. Then you
need to
>take it to a good automotive machine shop and have them check the surfaces for
>straightness and also magnaa flux it to be sure that there are no cracks.
Then I would
>recomend filling the eshaust port through the middle fo the manifold with
some of
>Mondello's filler, hence no more problems with warpage. That is the only
way to remedy
>the problem and keep your floor the same level it was built. If you don't
mind raising
>your floor a few inches, you can replace the stock manifold with an Edelbrock.
>Personally, even though you can supposedly get a bit of performance from
the Edelbrock,
>I prefer to leave my floor at a stock level. Just my preference.
> Pat 77 Birch
>

>
>> So what is the best manifold to replace it with?
>>

>>
>> > Ken, don't know whether or not you are aware pf ot pr not, but GMC's
have an
>> > inordinate amount of intake manifold trouble due to the very poor
design of the
>> > Toronado intake manifold. It was designed to keep the hood line of the
Toro very
>> > low and lends itself to our coachs in keeping the floors low. However
that design
>> > also has a lot of problems with cracking and also due to the heat
buildup under
>> > the hood, the have a tendency to warp when initially removed from the
original
>> > engine. So the vacuum inside the maniflod would tend to suck oil from
the lifter
>> > galley and burn it in the cylinders. You would have so much
compression, due to
>> > all the new parts, that the combustion would completely burn the oil,
hence no
>> > smoke. Been there, done that.
>> > My .02$
>> > Pat 77 Birch
>> >

>> >
>> > > Help!
>> > >
>> > > I rebuilt the engine in my 76 Birchaven about 3000 miles ago: 0.030
>> > > overbore, pistons/pins/rings, Caspro cam and roller chain, new
>> > > valves/guides/springs/seals, main & rod bearings, etc.,etc. It runs
smooth
>> > > and quiet and has plenty of power but is using a quart of oil every
one to
>> > > two hundred miles! There are no oil leaks visible -- except in the air
>> > > cleaner. The PVC valve tested good but I replaced it with a new one
as well
>> > > as a new crankcase vent filter. All hoses are in good shape. I've
got 20"Hg
>> > > of vacuum on the PCV valve -- but slight positive pressure at the
left valve
>> > > cover grommet, even at idle.
>> > >
>> > > The compression is 170 +-5 psi on all cylinders and the idle vacuum
is 20"Hg
>> > > so I'm sure it's not blowby "eating" my vacuum. But I can't find
where I'm
>> > > losing it.
>> > >
>> > > Any ideas, PLEASE?
>> > >
>> > > Ken Henderson
>
>
>

 

[g.m. hope]

>
>You drain the oil, refill the crankcase with the proper amount (5 quarts or 6
>with the filter). Put in the dipstick let it set for awhile to make sure
>that the oil is complete in the crankcase and pull the stick out and see
>where the oil line is. If the oil is not at the Full Line you can scratch or
>file a new full mark on the stick.
>

Thanks Emery. Somehow, I was expecting something more exotic :^). However,
wouldn't you have to run the engine for a while if you put in 6 quarts - to
pump the extra quart into the filter before calibrating the stick - or
calibrate on 5 quarts and then add the 6th????

Thanks again,
Marion Hope
77 Kingsley

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
George M.(Marion) Hope, Ph.D.
1930 SW 19th Way gmhope
Gainesville, FL 32608 gmhope
(352) 371-2795 (Home) (352) 846-2111 (Office)

 

[blank]

Tom, you may very well be right about filling the runner in the manifold as
opposed to filling the ports in the head. I have never tried either way, but
assumed that due to the fact that Joe Mondello is the espert on things 455 Olds,
and also due to the fact that this substance was listed in the catalog that I
received from Joe this last month, that it was still a viable alternative to
pulling the heads and filling the ports. I was laboring under the assumption that
this gentleman did not want to pull his heads. Personally, the filling of the head
ports is my preferred way and when I next tear my engine down, I will do just that.
But thanks much for your input. I'm sure that your considerable knowledge in these
matters
is greatly appreciated by myself and the net in general.

Pat 77 Birch

> Pat no matter how well you do the intake manifold it is never as good as
> filling the heads. Filling the exhaust crossovers in the intake will always
> cause some erosion due to the thickness of the intake manifold gasket. I
> believe that filling the intake exhaust crossovers will lead to even more
> troubles in the future.
>

> > It is still very possible to find a stock Toro intake manifold. Then you
> need to
> >take it to a good automotive machine shop and have them check the surfaces for
> >straightness and also magnaa flux it to be sure that there are no cracks.
> Then I would
> >recomend filling the eshaust port through the middle fo the manifold with
> some of
> >Mondello's filler, hence no more problems with warpage. That is the only
> way to remedy
> >the problem and keep your floor the same level it was built. If you don't
> mind raising
> >your floor a few inches, you can replace the stock manifold with an Edelbrock.
> >Personally, even though you can supposedly get a bit of performance from
> the Edelbrock,
> >I prefer to leave my floor at a stock level. Just my preference.
> > Pat 77 Birch
> >

> >
> >> So what is the best manifold to replace it with?
> >>

> >>
> >> > Ken, don't know whether or not you are aware pf ot pr not, but GMC's
> have an
> >> > inordinate amount of intake manifold trouble due to the very poor
> design of the
> >> > Toronado intake manifold. It was designed to keep the hood line of the
> Toro very
> >> > low and lends itself to our coachs in keeping the floors low. However
> that design
> >> > also has a lot of problems with cracking and also due to the heat
> buildup under
> >> > the hood, the have a tendency to warp when initially removed from the
> original
> >> > engine. So the vacuum inside the maniflod would tend to suck oil from
> the lifter
> >> > galley and burn it in the cylinders. You would have so much
> compression, due to
> >> > all the new parts, that the combustion would completely burn the oil,
> hence no
> >> > smoke. Been there, done that.
> >> > My .02$
> >> > Pat 77 Birch
> >> >

> >> >
> >> > > Help!
> >> > >
> >> > > I rebuilt the engine in my 76 Birchaven about 3000 miles ago: 0.030
> >> > > overbore, pistons/pins/rings, Caspro cam and roller chain, new
> >> > > valves/guides/springs/seals, main & rod bearings, etc.,etc. It runs
> smooth
> >> > > and quiet and has plenty of power but is using a quart of oil every
> one to
> >> > > two hundred miles! There are no oil leaks visible -- except in the air
> >> > > cleaner. The PVC valve tested good but I replaced it with a new one
> as well
> >> > > as a new crankcase vent filter. All hoses are in good shape. I've
> got 20"Hg
> >> > > of vacuum on the PCV valve -- but slight positive pressure at the
> left valve
> >> > > cover grommet, even at idle.
> >> > >
> >> > > The compression is 170 +-5 psi on all cylinders and the idle vacuum
> is 20"Hg
> >> > > so I'm sure it's not blowby "eating" my vacuum. But I can't find
> where I'm
> >> > > losing it.
> >> > >
> >> > > Any ideas, PLEASE?
> >> > >
> >> > > Ken Henderson
> >
> >
> >

 

[g.m. hope]

>
>When I changed oil and filter, I refilled the crankcase, started the
>engine to fill the filter and check for leaks, let the coach sit
>overnight and when I checked the dip stick I was about a half quart low.

Oops! Should have read on down before responding to Emery re. 6th quart.

Thanks,
Marion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
George M.(Marion) Hope, Ph.D.
1930 SW 19th Way gmhope
Gainesville, FL 32608 gmhope
(352) 371-2795 (Home) (352) 846-2111 (Office)

 

[thomas g. warner]

Doesnt Mondello supply a thin stainless steel plate to go against the head
and under the intake manifold gasket in addition to the plug? I think this
scenario would give a different flavor to the exhaust gases not corroding
the intake manifold. It only a theory however since i have not seen the
plugs used in either case on a 455.



> Tom, you may very well be right about filling the runner in the manifold as
>opposed to filling the ports in the head. I have never tried either way, but
>assumed that due to the fact that Joe Mondello is the espert on things 455
Olds,
>and also due to the fact that this substance was listed in the catalog that I
>received from Joe this last month, that it was still a viable alternative to
>pulling the heads and filling the ports. I was laboring under the
assumption that
>this gentleman did not want to pull his heads. Personally, the filling of
the head
>ports is my preferred way and when I next tear my engine down, I will do
just that.
>But thanks much for your input. I'm sure that your considerable knowledge
in these
>matters
>is greatly appreciated by myself and the net in general.
>
>Pat 77 Birch

>
>> Pat no matter how well you do the intake manifold it is never as good as
>> filling the heads. Filling the exhaust crossovers in the intake will always
>> cause some erosion due to the thickness of the intake manifold gasket. I
>> believe that filling the intake exhaust crossovers will lead to even more
>> troubles in the future.
>>

>> > It is still very possible to find a stock Toro intake manifold. Then you
>> need to
>> >take it to a good automotive machine shop and have them check the
surfaces for
>> >straightness and also magnaa flux it to be sure that there are no cracks.
>> Then I would
>> >recomend filling the eshaust port through the middle fo the manifold with
>> some of
>> >Mondello's filler, hence no more problems with warpage. That is the only
>> way to remedy
>> >the problem and keep your floor the same level it was built. If you don't
>> mind raising
>> >your floor a few inches, you can replace the stock manifold with an
Edelbrock.
>> >Personally, even though you can supposedly get a bit of performance from
>> the Edelbrock,
>> >I prefer to leave my floor at a stock level. Just my preference.
>> > Pat 77 Birch
>> >

>> >
>> >> So what is the best manifold to replace it with?
>> >>

>> >>
>> >> > Ken, don't know whether or not you are aware pf ot pr not, but GMC's
>> have an
>> >> > inordinate amount of intake manifold trouble due to the very poor
>> design of the
>> >> > Toronado intake manifold. It was designed to keep the hood line of the
>> Toro very
>> >> > low and lends itself to our coachs in keeping the floors low. However
>> that design
>> >> > also has a lot of problems with cracking and also due to the heat
>> buildup under
>> >> > the hood, the have a tendency to warp when initially removed from the
>> original
>> >> > engine. So the vacuum inside the maniflod would tend to suck oil from
>> the lifter
>> >> > galley and burn it in the cylinders. You would have so much
>> compression, due to
>> >> > all the new parts, that the combustion would completely burn the oil,
>> hence no
>> >> > smoke. Been there, done that.
>> >> > My .02$
>> >> > Pat 77 Birch
>> >> >

>> >> >
>> >> > > Help!
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I rebuilt the engine in my 76 Birchaven about 3000 miles ago: 0.030
>> >> > > overbore, pistons/pins/rings, Caspro cam and roller chain, new
>> >> > > valves/guides/springs/seals, main & rod bearings, etc.,etc. It runs
>> smooth
>> >> > > and quiet and has plenty of power but is using a quart of oil every
>> one to
>> >> > > two hundred miles! There are no oil leaks visible -- except in
the air
>> >> > > cleaner. The PVC valve tested good but I replaced it with a new one
>> as well
>> >> > > as a new crankcase vent filter. All hoses are in good shape. I've
>> got 20"Hg
>> >> > > of vacuum on the PCV valve -- but slight positive pressure at the
>> left valve
>> >> > > cover grommet, even at idle.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > The compression is 170 +-5 psi on all cylinders and the idle vacuum
>> is 20"Hg
>> >> > > so I'm sure it's not blowby "eating" my vacuum. But I can't find
>> where I'm
>> >> > > losing it.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Any ideas, PLEASE?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Ken Henderson
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>