454/502 and Diesel engines

[brent covey]

Hi everyone-

I would like to point out that the 454/502 and the 6.2/6.5 diesel engine
families are not going to remain in production much longer- the Chevrolet
big block is the last generation version of a 1965 design, and the 6.2/6.5
diesel family dates to 1982, and is to be abandoned in the next 18 months
by GM.

There has been a new Vortec 8100 (500) engine released for 2001- a quote;

"The 8.1-liter V8 engine will make its debut in the 2001 Chevrolet
Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500HD/3500 series heavy-duty pickup trucks
(available this fall). It offers 340 horsepower and 455 lb-ft of torque and
will provide excellent tow/haul capabilities."

its availible up to 415 HP for Marine applications....

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/news/vortec8100.htm

GM is releasing an all new diesel called the DURAMAX which I understand is
a 6.6 litre (~402 cu in) within the next year- its considered state of the
art, and a significant improvement on the present 6.5 litre.
Some information has been turning up on the web lately- the short version
is its a very good engine with LOTS of power. 300HP @ 3100 rpm, 520 ft/lbs
@ 1800 rpm.

http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/news5.htm

also;

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/diesel/66lb7_main.htm

The new design Chevrolet Six Litre V8 is also a very suitable candidate for
the GMC, given careful attention to electronics. This engine is currently
offered in pickups with HD emissions. Its availible all aluminum also, as
used in the current Corvette. Apparently a scheme is afoot to offer
Modulated Displacement a'la 1981 Cadillac V8-6-4 albeit by a somewhat
different method. Mercedes added this system to the S Class 5 litre V8
models in Europe, and Chrysler intends to offer it on a new V8 Hemi design
to be introduced shortly as well.

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/vortec_silver/60_main.htm

I think the 455 will not become so rare for years to come that they cannot
be rebuilt.

Nonetheless, it would be worthwhile to develop a package to adapt a very
modern engine, or even powertrain to the GMC- The electronic controls are
extraordinarily simple to design and tune, and the emissions requirements
are so much less for a GMC this might be worthwhile. There will remain the
question of the physical adaptation, but thats true of almost any swap.

I'd be interested in helping anyone interested in trying such a swap, or
developing parts to make it so.

;-)

Brent Covey
Vancouver BC

 

[brent covey]

Hi everyone-

I would like to point out that the 454/502 and the 6.2/6.5 diesel engine
families are not going to remain in production much longer- the Chevrolet
big block is the last generation version of a 1965 design, and the 6.2/6.5
diesel family dates to 1982, and is to be abandoned in the next 18 months
by GM.

There has been a new Vortec 8100 (500) engine released for 2001- a quote;

"The 8.1-liter V8 engine will make its debut in the 2001 Chevrolet
Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500HD/3500 series heavy-duty pickup trucks
(available this fall). It offers 340 horsepower and 455 lb-ft of torque and
will provide excellent tow/haul capabilities."

its availible up to 415 HP for Marine applications....

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/news/vortec8100.htm

GM is releasing an all new diesel called the DURAMAX which I understand is
a 6.6 litre (~402 cu in) within the next year- its considered state of the
art, and a significant improvement on the present 6.5 litre.
Some information has been turning up on the web lately- the short version
is its a very good engine with LOTS of power. 300HP @ 3100 rpm, 520 ft/lbs
@ 1800 rpm.

http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/news5.htm

also;

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/diesel/66lb7_main.htm

The new design Chevrolet Six Litre V8 is also a very suitable candidate for
the GMC, given careful attention to electronics. This engine is currently
offered in pickups with HD emissions. Its availible all aluminum also, as
used in the current Corvette. Apparently a scheme is afoot to offer
Modulated Displacement a'la 1981 Cadillac V8-6-4 albeit by a somewhat
different method. Mercedes added this system to the S Class 5 litre V8
models in Europe, and Chrysler intends to offer it on a new V8 Hemi design
to be introduced shortly as well.

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/vortec_silver/60_main.htm

I think the 455 will not become so rare for years to come that they cannot
be rebuilt.

Nonetheless, it would be worthwhile to develop a package to adapt a very
modern engine, or even powertrain to the GMC- The electronic controls are
extraordinarily simple to design and tune, and the emissions requirements
are so much less for a GMC this might be worthwhile. There will remain the
question of the physical adaptation, but thats true of almost any swap.

I'd be interested in assisting anyone interested in trying such a swap, or
developing parts to make it so.

;-)

Brent Covey
Vancouver BC

 

[robert neeb]

Excellant input Brent. For those of us who would like to move the GMC into
the 2000 era, that information is critical. I will need to replace my
engine in the near future and don't want to era date the spare parts. I
would like to spend my time in the future traveling the country looking at
the sites, not looking in scrap yards for obsolete parts. No offense to
anyone who does that. I am like David Greenwood. Drive and let someone
else fix it.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Brent Covey
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Thursday, April 06, 2000 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: 454/502 and Diesel engines

>Hi everyone-
>
>I would like to point out that the 454/502 and the 6.2/6.5 diesel engine
>families are not going to remain in production much longer- the Chevrolet
>big block is the last generation version of a 1965 design, and the 6.2/6.5
>diesel family dates to 1982, and is to be abandoned in the next 18 months
>by GM.
>
>There has been a new Vortec 8100 (500) engine released for 2001- a quote;
>
>"The 8.1-liter V8 engine will make its debut in the 2001 Chevrolet
>Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500HD/3500 series heavy-duty pickup trucks
>(available this fall). It offers 340 horsepower and 455 lb-ft of torque and
>will provide excellent tow/haul capabilities."
>
>its availible up to 415 HP for Marine applications....
>
>
>http://www.gmpowertrain.com/news/vortec8100.htm
>
>GM is releasing an all new diesel called the DURAMAX which I understand is
>a 6.6 litre (~402 cu in) within the next year- its considered state of the
>art, and a significant improvement on the present 6.5 litre.
>Some information has been turning up on the web lately- the short version
>is its a very good engine with LOTS of power. 300HP @ 3100 rpm, 520 ft/lbs
>@ 1800 rpm.
>
>
>http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/news5.htm
>
>also;
>
>
>http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/diesel/66lb7_main.htm
>
>
>The new design Chevrolet Six Litre V8 is also a very suitable candidate for
>the GMC, given careful attention to electronics. This engine is currently
>offered in pickups with HD emissions. Its availible all aluminum also, as
>used in the current Corvette. Apparently a scheme is afoot to offer
>Modulated Displacement a'la 1981 Cadillac V8-6-4 albeit by a somewhat
>different method. Mercedes added this system to the S Class 5 litre V8
>models in Europe, and Chrysler intends to offer it on a new V8 Hemi design
>to be introduced shortly as well.
>
>
>http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/vortec_silver/60_main.htm
>
>I think the 455 will not become so rare for years to come that they cannot
>be rebuilt.
>
>Nonetheless, it would be worthwhile to develop a package to adapt a very
>modern engine, or even powertrain to the GMC- The electronic controls are
>extraordinarily simple to design and tune, and the emissions requirements
>are so much less for a GMC this might be worthwhile. There will remain the
>question of the physical adaptation, but thats true of almost any swap.
>
>I'd be interested in helping anyone interested in trying such a swap, or
>developing parts to make it so.
>
>;-)
>
>Brent Covey
>Vancouver BC
>
>

 

[brent covey]

Andy wrote;
>....4800
>rpm and 4000rpm respectively and I wonder what that would do to my 425
>transmission and what speed I would be traveling at. Am I missing something,
>or do we have to find engines with comparable rpm's to the 455 to replace
>them with?

I wouldnt think there'd be any real problem with the THM 425 handling any
of these engines- the output isnt beyond the capabilities of the THM 400
(rwd) transmission and with judicious use or small improvements to the THM
425 I think they'd be OK. Toronados and Eldorados had VERY powerful engines
in 1970, and the Olds in particular could be ordered with a Super High
Output 455 that reached peak output ~5000 rpm.

The 4L80E transmission in your new truck is a direct descendant of the THM
400/425 family. Gearing in the GMC is quite similar to your pickup now, so
it should be a quite effective match.

One telling thing if you look at the GM Powertrain site I referenced, is
that you see what has been done in recent years with newer engine families-
The peak output isnt too dramatically greater than it was on 1970's
engines, but the range where output remains very high is extended a great
deal. There are charts of the torque curves you can look at,

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/vortec_silver/60_torque.htm

...and despite the high rpm torque peak of your new truck, its a very flat
curve making a lot of torque even at relatively low speeds. What moves very
heavy vehicles is the area under those curves, more or less.

Theres also scope to modify these newer engines thru electronic control or
camshafts etc to favour a given type of operation. They're very new engines
now, but the aftermarket will not be far behind on this one;-)

The actual effect of the engine like your pickup uses in the GMC is pretty
much identical overall power I should think- the two engines (6.0 and 455)
make very similar output, and peak HP is reached at very nearly the same
speeds. The extended flexibility of the newer engine is reflected in the
long fat torque curve availible- rather than dropping off at 2800 it
continues onwards for over 1200 rpm more, giving added range. At 2800 it
makes very little less than the 455, as its essentailly 350 ft/lbs from
2200- 4500 rpm.

One thing also, is that an adapter kit to adapt say the 6.0 probably will
share many common components (say, bellhousing adapter) with the diesel or
the 8.1 and perhaps other engines. Mounting provisions and most accessories
probably will have a large degree of interchangability.

Brent Covey
Vancouver BC
deville