403 vs. 455

peter brandt

New member
Dec 13, 1999
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Sorry guys, I REALLY didn't mean to put down the 403s. When I was looking
for a GMC people I talked to told me to get a 455 if possible, but I'm sure
the 403 with the proper gear ratio works just as well.

Peter
77 Eleganza
Colorado
 
Arch,

Wow, that's amazing I have been pondering the same thought. As a matter of
fact, I have a most unusual situation getting ready to play out at the shop
right now and I may be able to give some real world input on the idea.

I have 3 403 coaches in the shop for engine work side by side. One engine
is going to be rebuilt with stock gears behind it but we're going to beef
up the motor with a cam, forged pistons, and a few other things. The
second one gets the same engine set up but with the full Caspro set up and
the 4 air bag system. The third coach gets a Cady engine swap.

All of the work on the two 403 motors will be done at the same time by the
same machinist. The Cady motor will be delivered as a complete motor.
We're going to drop the front frame to mock up the motor mounts, piping, etc.

The first coach has a target delivery of Christmas Eve so I'll let you know
pretty quickly how this all comes out.

As far as hard data, I was never a very good pencil pusher and am more
interested with the outcome. I'll keep you informed,

Jim Bounds
- -----------------------------

>In a message dated 12/17/1999 10:16:20 PM Central Standard Time,

>
>> for a GMC people I talked to told me to get a 455 if possible, but I'm sure
>> the 403 with the proper gear ratio works just as well.
>>
>Peter
>
>Dont worry about it. If you play your cards right either can be made to run.
>Just depends on what you want to spend. In theory the 403 should
>respond to gears better than the 455. From where I sit the gearing is so
>far off that anything will help either. The other problem is that once you
>change the gearing I think you have to change several other things. I am
>in no way sure but my thoughts are if you let the lady run at higher RPM
>you ought to let the timing advance more. I would also think that a higher
>RPM would mean a different cam profile. The problem is we need hard data.
>Some where down the line we are going to have to get some dyno work
>done to give us the answers we need. I dont yet know if the lady leans
>out on top end-----will find out soon. There are so many variables here
>that we have to start narrowing them down. Sounds like a challenge.
>
>Take Care
>Arch 76 GB IL
>
>
 
Arch,

Thanks for the input, I'll pass it on to my machinest. I am not going to
use the Caspro cam, Crane cams are built here in Daytona and I think they
have one that will do the job. For the sake of evaluation and that I want
the motors to be mainly stock except for a few changes, I think we will
build the motors equal and see what we have. The customer with the
completely stock set up has been pleased with his coach performance for
many years so anything I do to it will be a plus. The coach with the gear
set up wants to pull a tandem wheel trailer better than he did before with
was already acceptable. Both of these guys will be happy with whatever
comes out, anything will be better than what they had.

Until Nate is happier with the performance of his Caspro motor, I'm going
to stick with my tried & true builders & less than radical mods internally.
I want to build a reliable workhorse- guaranteed. , not a finicky lady
that will leap on a good day. Nates motor has some quirks that I want to
see cleared up before I go further. Chuck wants the dist. back to do some
checking and I want to find the reason for the quirks.

In evaluating the results of mods, you have to progress one step at a time.
It will be interesting to see what the few mods we will be doing effects
the 403 set up. By the way, I will be able to compare the new motors to a
good stock 403 which we have in Chucks coach that will get the Cady set up.
It will be interesting!!

Jim Bounds
- ------------------

>In a message dated 12/18/1999 4:12:34 PM Central Standard Time,

>
>> I have 3 403 coaches in the shop for engine work side by side. One engine
>> is going to be rebuilt with stock gears behind it but we're going to beef
>> up the motor with a cam, forged pistons, and a few other things. The
>> second one gets the same engine set up but with the full Caspro set up and
>> the 4 air bag system. The third coach gets a Cady engine swap.
>>
>JIM
>
>OMG now you are going to push me all the way out to the edge.
>Glad to see one will be stock gears. If you are going with the Caspro
>cam it should be fine. Somewhat stronger than it was. What compression
>ratio and did you block off the crossovers on either? Now what do you
>mean by full Caspro set up behind the second one? Are we at 3.55 gears?
>If you are at 3.55 and a Caspro cam then I think this one will have torque
>all over the place at low end but run out of steam on top end. If it is a
>Mondello cam you should be good to go to 3200 at least depending
>on how they degree in the cam. Jim talk to the people you trust. I am
>only spouting theory. On the coach that you are putting the 3.55 gears
>behind the engine you might want to retard the cam 2-4 degrees. If it is
>a Caspro cam. Talk to Chuck he should have something to say on this.
>I really dont think the two engines should be set up the same----more
>theory. Now the one I want to hear about is the Caddy. What gears are
>you putting behind it? There is a relationship between torque and weight
>that I have not seen mentioned. You can increase the RPM of an engine
>to increase horsepower only so far. If you are starting down the backside
>of the curve with the extra RPM you have accomplished nothing. I dont
>even know where the Caddy begins to strut it's stuff. I do think that if it
>is designed for a 6000 lb car and you put it into a 12000 lb motorhome
>you will want to up its RPM----unless it puts you on the down side of the
>curve. Jim its all theory---talk to people you trust.
>
>Take Care
>Arch 76 GB IL
>
>
Jim Bounds/Co-op Motor Works Orlando www.gmccoop.com