1976 23-footer- price drop $7000- fully restored, but neglected, needs engine work- it's complicated

[hertfordnc]

LINK TO CRAIGSLIST AD FOR MORE PHOTOS



What a long and winding road.

One indicator of a scam is a listing that includes a tedious story but if i don't explain how i got here i will get deluged with questions.

THE STORY:

Around 2012 this coach came to GMC COOP for the star treatment. It got all new EVERYTHING (details below) and was delivered to a new owner in North Carolina in 2013.

The owner's health declined and he was unable to use the coach much. I got it in the summer of 2020 at the height of the pandemic. .

It was going to be our family's dream vehicle. I started dusting it off. drained old fuel, changed fluids etc. I caught COVID in Novermber 2020 and used my quarantine to get all the systems working.

Early 2021 I saw glitter in the transmission so i had it rebuilt. Things were going pretty well. But it still was not ready for the kind of travel we like to do.

After some epic road trips in other smaller vehicle we decided around 2023 it was not the right fit for us and I started trying to sell it.

In Oct. 2024 I had a solid buyer. He was some distance away and the plan was for me to make it ready and drive it to him.

I worked through a few problems that took way to long to fix but things moved along.

We had a personal family tragedy that consumed ALL of early 2025 and a good bit of time since.

But i got new tires put on and the plan was still moving along.

Then there was a noise- a stuck lifter, and it had destroyed the cam.

OPTIONS:

There is a shop near me that will rebuild it for around $4k I'm going to head in that direction and pull the engine. But if someone wants to make me an offer I'd love to see it leave my yard.


THE BUILD FROM THE COOP

This coach had belonged to a known GMCer in Florida. It was mostly original but well maintained and regularly used.
It was purchased and brought to the COOP and they did a complete renovation before delivering it to North Carolina.

- quad bag
- action-arm brake
- disk brakes
- GMC One Ton
- Alcoas
- paint
- all new RV appliancs
- solid surface counter
- new aphostery
- modern dash and wheel
- fire suppression
- macerator
- ZIpDee


- It got a rebuilt trans but not a Manny.
- the engine had about 75,000 miles on it and Jim B. and the owner decided it was better left alone- COOP redid the externals.


THE DEAL:

I would like to get $8000 for what is sitting in my yard right now. I do not want to do the engine swap myself so i'm looking for a buyer who will either take it as is or work with me and my local rebuilder.

ALSO, i would not rule out a trade for a post 2005 E450 Class C.

I am very thick skinned and I will answer ANY question.

 

[icsamerica]

Craigslist is over, Try FB market place or Ebay. Price is too high. Sorry but that's a $2500 project coach on a good day. 23's have a small and specific audience. A 350 olds repalcement for the gas mizers or a Cad 500 for the hot rodders. Not that many people looking for projects these days. Shifting demographics, higher fuel prices, price of parts and a shortage of mechanics who do this type of work makes this all DIY. Good luck

 

[tmsnyder]

That is quite a coach Dave. If I didn't have my 26' and 3 kids I'd be in your driveway with the cash right now.

What happened to the floor at the entry? Water damage?

 

[Richard RV]

Craigslist is over, Try FB market place or Ebay. Price is too high. Sorry but that's a $2500 project coach on a good day. 23's have a small and specific audience. A 350 olds repalcement for the gas mizers or a Cad 500 for the hot rodders. Not that many people looking for projects these days. Shifting demographic, higher fuel prices, price of parts and a shortage of mechanics who do this type of work makes this all DIY. Good luck

The coach is not for you. Got it.

Please allow me equal time to offer a different take.

1). The GMC Motorhome community is DIY to a large extent.
2). Craigslist is still a reasonable free way to advertise what you have for sale.
3). 23' GMCs have a small and specific audience. 26' GMCs have a small and specific audience, too. My first GMC was a 23' Birchaven and I've had _lots_ of 26' GMC owners tell me that they couldn't find one they liked at a reasonable price so they bought a 26'.
4). "Not that many people looking for projects these days." is an excellent example of painting with a wide brush and using the wrong paint.
5). If the coach were to be parted out how much would you estimate the total used price of Alcoas with 2 year old tires, a Zip Dee awning, a reaction arm braking system, a quadrabag system, a one ton front end, all new appliances, and newly upholstered furniture would be? Let's keep it simple - how much are just the Alcoas with 2 year old tires with almost no mileage on them worth?

 

[pvfjr]

Honestly I'd rather put an engine in than try to do all the other nice stuff that's been done to this coach. I love the dash! It's a beauty.

Indeed. It's $3600 from S&J and a couple days of your time. Then you have something really nice and basically ready to use. Looks like a good coach to me.

 

[Richard RV]

Indeed. It's $3600 from S&J and a couple days of your time. Then you have something really nice and basically ready to use. Looks like a good coach to me.

You're a left coaster so I can understand why you didn't mention shipping, but your point is well taken.

How far are you from S&J?

 

[pvfjr]

You're a let coaster so I can understand why you didn't mention shipping, but your point is well taken.

How far are you from S&J?

I'm about 7 hours from Spokane. It's just short enough to go there and back in a day, assuming roads are good.

When I needed an engine for the Palm Beach, I didn't have time to wait for it and they didn't have any ready. So I looked for private parties selling a 455, and ended up getting a new one from Eric--I still ended up having to go to Spokane. I've had to go there for a wood stove purchase twice before too. That's just the go-to place for certain things it seems.

I'm only an hour away from brand new windshields though.

 

[icsamerica]

OP mentioned 'thick skin' so I figured I'd offer my take. I see it wasn't all that welcomed and even though I'm confident in my position on this... it appears to be un-popular. That's ok and I think time will show I'm correct. The coach has already been for sale for 25 days but spring is upon us and the project seekers will soon start shopping in earnest.

A 350 with gears is a perfectly good options for a 23, it's been done a few times, Jim Bounds has mentioned it a few times as something he's done so why chastise me? I wouldn't choose a 350 but I respect JB and his endeavors. And with the prospect of 4$ to 5$ per/gallon gas the idea starts to make sense.

As for the Cad 500... why is that debatable? There is no repalcement for displacement. I just bought the entire drop out with the trans and mounts from an Eldorado with all the Fixin's. A cad 500 with matching transmission an a few specific upgrades is the easiest way to get 500Ft lbs of Torque with the unparralled smoothness and qiuetness that only cad 500 can offer. It was finely balancing from the factory, the center mounted A/C compressor reduces vibrations and the large and thick (quiet) exhaust manifold castings can not be replicated with an olds.

I've also just rebuilt a 455. There was $1000 in basic machine work alone in the block. 3500 for a properly rebuilt 455 is a reach and a lot of things have to go right or many compromises will have to be made to hit that number. Prices have gone up for parts and for this type machine work... just like everything else.

Good luck with the sale. I hope the 23 finds a nice home with a motovated buyer and I hope the seller finds peace and comfort.

 

[pvfjr]

As for the Cad 500... why is that debatable?

There are people here who are willing to debate the topic with you. I think that makes it inherently debatable.

I kinda like the idea of a Caddy 500, and think it makes a fine swap. Many have done it in the past with success. There are technically issues to overcome with fitment, AC, etc. It's a little more work than a 455, for sure. Some folks have had issues with the Caddy 500 thrust bearings, and that's no fun--I think it makes people a bit wary. There is also a fuel efficiency penalty to pay with the 500 swap. If 455s were hard to find or get rebuilt, or inadequate in performance, then I think more people would lean toward the 500. Currently, I think the best reason to install a Caddy 500 is just because you want to.

 

[icsamerica]

There are people here who are willing to debate the topic with you. I think that makes it inherently debatable.

I kinda like the idea of a Caddy 500, and think it makes a fine swap. Many have done it in the past with success. There are technically issues to overcome with fitment, AC, etc. It's a little more work than a 455, for sure. Some folks have had issues with the Caddy 500 thrust bearings, and that's no fun--I think it makes people a bit wary. There is also a fuel efficiency penalty to pay with the 500 swap. If 455s were hard to find or get rebuilt, or inadequate in performance, then I think more people would lean toward the 500. Currently, I think the best reason to install a Caddy 500 is just because you want to.

It's not debateable, it's been done successfully so it's more of a choice. I'm aware of the Thrust Bearing issues. That's why I bought a complete engine package with transmission, diff and cad 500 has a package. The TB issues wasn't an issue for the Eldroado so I suspect the issue is with the rebuilder, installer or olds converter mismatch. I've completed many many successful transplants and I know piecing things together doesnt always work out. Chances of success improve greatly when you use and entire package as the engeneers intended.

 

[Christo]

@hertfordnc -- to me the value is somewhere in the middle of what's been discussed thus far. The market is ABYSMAL these days, so 8k for a non-runner with issues (floor rot) and not a lot of recent use seems a bit ambitious. Not impossible, but you might have to wait for the right buyer to come along. OTOH, it looks to have very good bones, good options and paint, and it's a rare 23', so $2,500 seems very low. Good luck with the sale.

 

[tmsnyder]

OP mentioned 'thick skin' so I figured I'd offer my take. I see it wasn't all that welcomed and even though I'm confident in my position on this... it appears to be un-popular. That's ok and I think time will show I'm correct. The coach has already been for sale for 25 days but spring is upon us and the project seekers will soon start shopping in earnest.

A 350 with gears is a perfectly good options for a 23, it's been done a few times, Jim Bounds has mentioned it a few times as something he's done so why chastise me? I wouldn't choose a 350 but I respect JB and his endeavors. And with the prospect of 4$ to 5$ per/gallon gas the idea starts to make sense.

As for the Cad 500... why is that debatable? There is no repalcement for displacement. I just bought the entire drop out with the trans and mounts from an Eldorado with all the Fixin's. A cad 500 with matching transmission an a few specific upgrades is the easiest way to get 500Ft lbs of Torque with the unparralled smoothness and qiuetness that only cad 500 can offer. It was finely balancing from the factory, the center mounted A/C compressor reduces vibrations and the large and thick (quiet) exhaust manifold castings can not be replicated with an olds.

I've also just rebuilt a 455. There was $1000 in basic machine work alone in the block. 3500 for a properly rebuilt 455 is a reach and a lot of things have to go right or many compromises will have to be made to hit that number. Prices have gone up for parts and for this type machine work... just like everything else.

Good luck with the sale. I hope the 23 finds a nice home with a motovated buyer and I hope the seller finds peace and comfort.

500 cad is debatable bc there is a owner on this forum that has that engine and is not completely sold on that swap anymore. The 500 cad was widely available in parts yards at one time but not anymore.

Search LarryW and 500 cad to see his thoughts on the swap. They are not a great engine.

Only reference to 350 olds I've heard of was someone not to be named was working on a TURBOed 350 olds gas engine. Not an NA 350., which would be pretty gutless. But again, these engines are ancient. Good luck finding one.

Why complicate things? It has a 455 olds in it, just rebuild it or replace with a good one.

 

[icsamerica]

500 cad is debatable bc there is a owner on this forum that has that engine and is not completely sold on that swap anymore. The 500 cad was widely available in parts yards at one time but not anymore.

Search LarryW and 500 cad to see his thoughts on the swap. They are not a great engine.

Only reference to 350 olds I've heard of was someone not to be named was working on a TURBOed 350 olds gas engine. Not an NA 350., which would be pretty gutless. But again, these engines are ancient. Good luck finding one.

Why complicate things? It has a 455 olds in it, just rebuild it or replace with a good one.

I just made off-the-cuff generalized comment that hot rodders might be interested in a Cad 500 swap. That is kind'a the defintion of hot rodding... and a cad 500 swap into just about anything is a popular theme with traditional "hot rodders' . I'm sure there is someone somewhere working on their T bucket with a Cad 500 swap right now as I type. I dont think replacing a 455 with a bargain basement 455 is in the context hot rodding.

My comment was offering a range of extremes... It wasn't meant to start a debate about the longevity of someone else's Cad 500 endeavors. I'm sure who ever buys the OP's 23 will have their own thoughts and do what interests them and may even ask for thoughts on the subject when the time comes.

 

[EricS]

A 23' side bath is indeed one of the rarest GMCs. Good looking and many upgrades to boot. Getting it driveable will get it sold. Unfortunately that may require a little more investment on your part.
A few more details in the ad are missing, like frame condition, roof AC and cab AC operation, generator condition, etc.
I happen to have a 23' side bath for sale, not as nice looking and fewer upgrades, but it has a rear factory bunkbed over the settee. I think the market is on it's seasonal upswing. Hopefully gas prices will have little effect.
GLWTS!

 

[Richard RV]

GLWTS

There are a couple of different meanings for that acronym - I'm assuming you mean the more polite one!

If a GMC gets 9 mpg and drives 3000 miles per year, the difference between gas at $4 or $3 per gallon is $300.

Considering that an equivalent modern motorhome (is there one?!) could easily be double, triple, keep going!, the purchase price of a GMC how many miles would you have to drive to offset that initial outlay with better gas mileage?

 

[hertfordnc]

Some great conversation. I have not been checking in.

The damage to the floor is isolated. I believe a dehumidifier spilled or overflowed and was left unchecked. THe deck underneath is solid.

I do have very thick skin and i will take less. I wouldn't rule out a trade. Can't think of anything i need or want at that price point, but I'm open.

I went with craiglsist because it allows a wordy ad with a lot of pictures that can be shared with people not on facebook.

I'll probably put it on marketplace soon but i know i'll encounter a lot of scammers and morons.

Figure $3/mi for transport. I could probably find a hotshot local to me who would do it for that price.

 

[EricS]

There are a couple of different meanings for that acronym - I'm assuming you mean the more polite one!

If a GMC gets 9 mpg and drives 3000 miles per year, the difference between gas at $4 or $3 per gallon is $300.

Considering that an equivalent modern motorhome (is there one?!) could easily be double, triple, keep going!, the purchase price of a GMC how many miles would you have to drive to offset that initial outlay with better gas mileage?

I need to look up the alternate meanings of "GLWTS". I did intend to use "the polite one". Well wishes, Eric