145 amp alternator

vic marks

New member
Sep 5, 1999
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While recently visiting with Glenn Playmate in Oregon I noticed that his
coach had a dual pulley setup on the alternator. In fact, what he has is a
5 belt system with a 145 amp alternator. There are dual belts on his
alternator and his a/c (correct me if I'm wrong on this Glenn). His coach
is a 78 Palm Beach with a 455 engine (originally a 403). Does anybody else
have this setup? Was it typical for 1978? The 145 amp alternator interests
me.

Speaking of alternators, I noticed a full page ad in Automobile magazine
for carparts.com offering a 33% discount on your first order. Check out the
alternator listings for 1979 Cadillac Eldorado. They offer a 145 amp. Also,
their lowest price is $60 with a $50 core charge. Does anyone know if you
have to send back the exact same alternator? Can I send Autozone my 80 amp
core even though I bought a 100 amp replacement?

Vic Marks
Vancouver BC
 
I don't know if this is something that could get me in trouble, but I
retuned an old VW alternator when I picked up an alt for my GMC. They never
even opened the box.

Tony

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Vic Marks
To:
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 3:36 PM
Subject: GMC: 145 amp alternator

> While recently visiting with Glenn Playmate in Oregon I noticed that his
> coach had a dual pulley setup on the alternator. In fact, what he has is a
> 5 belt system with a 145 amp alternator. There are dual belts on his
> alternator and his a/c (correct me if I'm wrong on this Glenn). His coach
> is a 78 Palm Beach with a 455 engine (originally a 403). Does anybody else
> have this setup? Was it typical for 1978? The 145 amp alternator interests
> me.
>
> Speaking of alternators, I noticed a full page ad in Automobile magazine
> for carparts.com offering a 33% discount on your first order. Check out
the
> alternator listings for 1979 Cadillac Eldorado. They offer a 145 amp.
Also,
> their lowest price is $60 with a $50 core charge. Does anyone know if you
> have to send back the exact same alternator? Can I send Autozone my 80 amp
> core even though I bought a 100 amp replacement?
>
> Vic Marks
> Vancouver BC
>
>
 
I'm telling!!! (Sorry, I have 5 and 7 year old kids)

Ron and Julie
73 Painted Desert

> I don't know if this is something that could get me in trouble, but I
> retuned an old VW alternator when I picked up an alt for my GMC. They never
> even opened the box.
>
> Tony
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vic Marks
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 3:36 PM
> Subject: GMC: 145 amp alternator
>
> > While recently visiting with Glenn Playmate in Oregon I noticed that his
> > coach had a dual pulley setup on the alternator. In fact, what he has is a
> > 5 belt system with a 145 amp alternator. There are dual belts on his
> > alternator and his a/c (correct me if I'm wrong on this Glenn). His coach
> > is a 78 Palm Beach with a 455 engine (originally a 403). Does anybody else
> > have this setup? Was it typical for 1978? The 145 amp alternator interests
> > me.
> >
> > Speaking of alternators, I noticed a full page ad in Automobile magazine
> > for carparts.com offering a 33% discount on your first order. Check out
> the
> > alternator listings for 1979 Cadillac Eldorado. They offer a 145 amp.
> Also,
> > their lowest price is $60 with a $50 core charge. Does anyone know if you
> > have to send back the exact same alternator? Can I send Autozone my 80 amp
> > core even though I bought a 100 amp replacement?
> >
> > Vic Marks
> > Vancouver BC
> >
> >
 
I'll deny everything.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald Kazi
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: 145 amp alternator

> I'm telling!!! (Sorry, I have 5 and 7 year old kids)
>
> Ron and Julie
> 73 Painted Desert
>

>
> > I don't know if this is something that could get me in trouble, but I
> > retuned an old VW alternator when I picked up an alt for my GMC. They
never
> > even opened the box.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Vic Marks
> > To:
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 3:36 PM
> > Subject: GMC: 145 amp alternator
> >
> > > While recently visiting with Glenn Playmate in Oregon I noticed that
his
> > > coach had a dual pulley setup on the alternator. In fact, what he has
is a
> > > 5 belt system with a 145 amp alternator. There are dual belts on his
> > > alternator and his a/c (correct me if I'm wrong on this Glenn). His
coach
> > > is a 78 Palm Beach with a 455 engine (originally a 403). Does anybody
else
> > > have this setup? Was it typical for 1978? The 145 amp alternator
interests
> > > me.
> > >
> > > Speaking of alternators, I noticed a full page ad in Automobile
magazine
> > > for carparts.com offering a 33% discount on your first order. Check
out
> > the
> > > alternator listings for 1979 Cadillac Eldorado. They offer a 145 amp.
> > Also,
> > > their lowest price is $60 with a $50 core charge. Does anyone know if
you
> > > have to send back the exact same alternator? Can I send Autozone my 80
amp
> > > core even though I bought a 100 amp replacement?
> > >
> > > Vic Marks
> > > Vancouver BC
> > >
> > >
>
>
 
Sorry, but the energy required to drive the alternator is proportional to
the output. Therefore a 80 and 140 amp alternator that are actually
producing 60 amps each provide an equal load on the engine.

I can also say that my experience with large battery banks has shown that a
larger alternator is quite important get the system voltage up. Running
systems undervoltage causes more internal heating of wiring and of the
alternator components themselves.

Everyone's needs are different. but if you are running a double set of golf
cart batteries the battery bank is 470 amp hours. If that was somewhat
discharged it might require 400 amp hours to recharge. If you run the 80
amp alterator at full output on a continous basis it will definitely
overheat. But that aside the GMC with its normal electrical demands could
require 25 amps of that. That would leave 55 amps per hour left. So a full
8 hour run would be required to recharge the bank. But the practicallity
is that full continous oupt would be more like 60 amps and would leave
only 35 amps per hour for recharge..

I think that a larger capacity alternator is necessary if you are utilizing
a large battery bank and/or an inverter

Bill Hubert
78 Royale

>

>
>Sirum, whose judgment I trust, 80 amps is big enough for the GMC. >>
>
>Dave - I agree with your statement. What would be running that would need
>that much amps? An 80 amp alternator seems to sufficiently charge up my
>batteries just fine. Also, one should not overlook the fact that a 145 amp
>alternator will be drawing more horsepower from the engine than a 80 or 100
>amp would.
>
>I suppose that if someone used an inverter to power a lot of things they
>could fire up the engine to supplement the batteries but that would be the
>exception among the GMcers that I know.
>
>Emery Stora
>77 Kingsley
>Santa Fe, NM
>
>
 
There are a lot of other factors at play other than the simple distribution
of amps. Most of the GMC systems are not set for the larger alternator.

The wiring to the alternator should be increased if you really want the
increased amps.

The single belt should be changed to a dual or a serpentine to deliver
enough power for the load under a heavy charge. You are quite right that
you only get the load you are using but if you never need the extra amps no
real reason to increase to the larger alternator.

The diode isolators will increase their voltage drop with the higher
current load and therefor the power they waste in heat so they should be
increased in size.

If you are going to charge the batteries at a high current you should get a
smart alternator that also watches the temperature of the battery/s so that
you do not over charge them. (See Ample power and Heart systems)

If you want to recharge the house batteries quickly, it would prob be
better to crank up the 6000 watt Onan with the smart charger and use a
system designed for this function.

Most of the time when you are driving, the average run time is 4 hours
which is enough to recharge all of the batteries. In fact we are probably
over doing it at that since most of the alternators are supplying 14 +
volts which is too much for four hours if you do not have a smart
alternator. This would be the same with any alternator since our
batteries are seldom dead.

It has been reported here that most of the 100 amp plus alternators do not
supply that current. Some have speculated that the alternators are the
same just lower drop diodes. Since the output regulator is temperature
limited to really get a system that will provide these amps you should
design it with all the components not just change the alternator.

Not an easy answer---- not a clear need IMHO.
gene

>Sorry, but the energy required to drive the alternator is proportional to
>the output. Therefore a 80 and 140 amp alternator that are actually
>producing 60 amps each provide an equal load on the engine.
>
>I can also say that my experience with large battery banks has shown that a
>larger alternator is quite important get the system voltage up. Running
>systems undervoltage causes more internal heating of wiring and of the
>alternator components themselves.
>
>Everyone's needs are different. but if you are running a double set of golf
>cart batteries the battery bank is 470 amp hours. If that was somewhat
>discharged it might require 400 amp hours to recharge. If you run the 80
>amp alterator at full output on a continous basis it will definitely
>overheat. But that aside the GMC with its normal electrical demands could
>require 25 amps of that. That would leave 55 amps per hour left. So a full
>8 hour run would be required to recharge the bank. But the practicallity
>is that full continous oupt would be more like 60 amps and would leave
>only 35 amps per hour for recharge..
>
>I think that a larger capacity alternator is necessary if you are utilizing
>a large battery bank and/or an inverter
>
>Bill Hubert
>78 Royale
>

>>

>>
>>>Sirum, whose judgment I trust, 80 amps is big enough for the GMC. >>
>>
>>Dave - I agree with your statement. What would be running that would need
>>that much amps? An 80 amp alternator seems to sufficiently charge up my
>>batteries just fine. Also, one should not overlook the fact that a 145 amp
>>alternator will be drawing more horsepower from the engine than a 80 or 100
>>amp would.
>>
>>I suppose that if someone used an inverter to power a lot of things they
>>could fire up the engine to supplement the batteries but that would be the
>>exception among the GMcers that I know.
>>
>>Emery Stora
>>77 Kingsley
>>Santa Fe, NM
>>
>>
>
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
>
>Sirum, whose judgment I trust, 80 amps is big enough for the GMC. >>
>
>Dave - I agree with your statement. What would be running that would need
>that much amps? An 80 amp alternator seems to sufficiently charge up my
>batteries just fine. Also, one should not overlook the fact that a 145 amp
>alternator will be drawing more horsepower from the engine than a 80 or 100
>amp would.

Emery,

The "normal" load on the GMC alternator is about 35-40 amps assuming a
modern stereo and running at night. A PC will increase that load by about
11 amps, so we get to 45-50 amps before we try to recharge a battery bank
(or run additional equipment). That means that there is at most 30A left to
charge the battery bank and run any other additional equipment.

Unless you are using PCs and lots of other equipment this isn't a real
problem because the automotive regulator drops down to a trickle charge
pretty rapidly. The only condition that changes this analysis is if you
have a multistage regulator. In this case, providing that you use 2 golf
cart batteries for a battery bank, you would like to have about 50 A
available for charging the battery bank. If you have a 100 A full duty
cycle alternator then this is barely adequate for night driving and rapid
battery recharge.

Assuming that the GMC alternator is a 100% duty cycle alternator the 100 A
version will be just fine for most people, most of the time.



>I suppose that if someone used an inverter to power a lot of things they
>could fire up the engine to supplement the batteries but that would be the
>exception among the GMcers that I know.


I'm an exception! But, I sized my inverter based on the 100A alternator
(1000W Prosine). I'd like to have more power, but decided to live with
1000W. I know that I could use a larger inverter and just draw down the
batteries to gain the additional amperage, but I wanted a system that is a
little more foolproof

Henry
 
In this line of thinking, is an all electric coach feasible? Fridge being
12/120 and electric water heater. No propane. Would one need two house
battery banks? No long term dry camping but maybe overnight shopping at a
Wal Mart.{:>)

Roger
 
>Speaking of alternators, I noticed a full page ad in Automobile
>magazine
>for carparts.com offering a 33% discount on your first order. Check
>out the
>alternator listings for 1979 Cadillac Eldorado. They offer a 145 amp.
>Also,
>their lowest price is $60 with a $50 core charge. Does anyone know if
>you
>have to send back the exact same alternator? Can I send Autozone my 80
>amp
>core even though I bought a 100 amp replacement?
>
>Vic Marks
>Vancouver BC
>
I wonder..................Is bigger always better? According to Alex
Sirum, whose judgement I trust, 80 amps is big enough for the GMC.

David Lee Greenberg
200 MacFarlane Dr
Delray Beach, FL 33483-6829
www.gmcss.com/registry.htm
 
And there is one more downside to the installation of a larger alternator.
The additional strain from increased belt tension on all pulleys and seals.

>

>
>Sirum, whose judgment I trust, 80 amps is big enough for the GMC. >>
>
>Dave - I agree with your statement. What would be running that would need
>that much amps? An 80 amp alternator seems to sufficiently charge up my
>batteries just fine. Also, one should not overlook the fact that a 145 amp
>alternator will be drawing more horsepower from the engine than a 80 or 100
>amp would.
>
>I suppose that if someone used an inverter to power a lot of things they
>could fire up the engine to supplement the batteries but that would be the
>exception among the GMcers that I know.
>
>Emery Stora
>77 Kingsley
>Santa Fe, NM
>
>
 
> Speaking of alternators....... Does anyone know if you
> have to send back the exact same alternator? Can I send Autozone my 80 amp
> core even though I bought a 100 amp replacement?
>

Vic,
That's what I did at AZ. No questions asked.
Phil Stewart
'76 Transmode, TN
 
>In this line of thinking, is an all electric coach feasible? Fridge being
>12/120 and electric water heater. No propane. Would one need two house
>battery banks? No long term dry camping but maybe overnight shopping at a
>Wal Mart.{:>)

Roger,

I think that an all-electric coach is a reasonable goal providing that you
play close attention to minimizing loads on the battery bank(s). If you
limit the dry camping to the scenario that you mentioned (overnight only)
you should be able to get by on a single bank of batteries.

Here's my quick energy budget (some numbers may be off a bit):

1. based on 6 hours "active" camping
2. 2 florescent lights @ 1.2 A ea = 15AH
3. 2 fans running overnight @ 2 A ea = 32AH
4. radio/TV 4 hours @ 5 A = 20AH
5. fridge 14 hours @ 5 A = 70AH

Total 137AH
peak discharge rate 16.4A

You can do this on one battery bank of two 6V golf cart batteries providing
that you change your regulator. The t-105s have about a 220AH capacity, so
you are discharging to 80% of capacity and recharging to 20%. You should
get close to the 220AH rating of the batteries because you are discharging
at less than a 20A rate. You'll charge for about 5.5 hours to recharge the
amount discharged (assuming that you run the batteries between 20 and 80%).
That's assuming that you use a multistage charger. With the standard
automotive regulator it'll be a long time recharging.

If you decide to do this, check out the multistage regulators at
http://www.amplepower.com and trace.

Good luck,

Henry
 
Henry what do you think of this? http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html and
this http://www.phrannie.org/battery2.htmlAt 09:07 PM 01/11/2000 -0800, you
wrote:

>>In this line of thinking, is an all electric coach feasible? Fridge being
>>12/120 and electric water heater. No propane. Would one need two house
>>battery banks? No long term dry camping but maybe overnight shopping at a
>>Wal Mart.{:>)
>
>Roger,
>
>I think that an all-electric coach is a reasonable goal providing that you
>play close attention to minimizing loads on the battery bank(s). If you
>limit the dry camping to the scenario that you mentioned (overnight only)
>you should be able to get by on a single bank of batteries.
>
>Here's my quick energy budget (some numbers may be off a bit):
>
>1. based on 6 hours "active" camping
>2. 2 florescent lights @ 1.2 A ea = 15AH
>3. 2 fans running overnight @ 2 A ea = 32AH
>4. radio/TV 4 hours @ 5 A = 20AH
>5. fridge 14 hours @ 5 A = 70AH
>
>Total 137AH
>peak discharge rate 16.4A
>
>You can do this on one battery bank of two 6V golf cart batteries providing
>that you change your regulator. The t-105s have about a 220AH capacity, so
>you are discharging to 80% of capacity and recharging to 20%. You should
>get close to the 220AH rating of the batteries because you are discharging
>at less than a 20A rate. You'll charge for about 5.5 hours to recharge the
>amount discharged (assuming that you run the batteries between 20 and 80%).
>That's assuming that you use a multistage charger. With the standard
>automotive regulator it'll be a long time recharging.
>
>If you decide to do this, check out the multistage regulators at
>http://www.amplepower.com and trace.
>
>Good luck,
>
>Henry
>
>
>
>
 
>Henry what do you think of this? http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html and
>this http://www.phrannie.org/battery2.html

It's good basic battery and 12V electrical systems information. BUT, it
simplifies some things to the point that it becomes difficult to make good
decisions. Case in point: the recommendation to limit your depth f
discharge to between 20 and 50% is overly pessimistic. Yes, it does
maximize the life of the batteries (about 1000 deep cycles) versus
discharge to 80% (about 500 deep cycles) but it does so at the expense of a
bigger battery bank. In addition, the real total current discharge is
110,000AH at 50% and 88,000AH at 80%. So, instead of the apparent halving
of the battery life, we actually get about 80% of the battery life at 80%
depth of discharge. I doubt that many GMCers will make 500 cycles in 4-5
years even using the systems design parameters that I used.

Lots of good information though. I have few quarrels with his material. The
areas where I see him being overly pessimistic include battery depth of
discharge and charge rate. He's too vague in how to check a battery
electrically. (s/b using a fully charged battery, if left for at least 12
hours no need to remove surface charge. Otherwise apply a 20A load for 3
minutes, wait 5 minutes and then take the reading) And, he isn't all that
current on newer technology (although he does mention 3 stage chargers).
There's a few other nitpics, but not much.

For the OEM GMC he's pretty right on except for battery life and depth of
discharge.

Henry
 
> Didn't GM make an all-electric coach? The early Eleganza SE, circa=
1974,

My 73 Sequoia is all electric. I made a couple upgrades to make the=20
all-electric concept work a bit better. I upgraded the house battery bank=20
to two sets of golf-cart batteries (440ah). I replaced the buzz-box=20
converter and wiring with a Todd 70amp charger. This setup works great. We=
=20
can dry camp for up to four days (or indefinitely if I run the Onan for a=20
few hours each day).

> BTW, it was GM that offered the 145 amp alternator in 1978. ...

Does anyone have a part number for the 145 amp alternator?

I would even be happy with a dual pulley for my 80 amp alternator, does=20
anyone have a part number for a dual pulley that will fit the stock=20
alternator? I have to keep the alternator belt very tight to prevent it=20
from slipping under heavy loads. I am reasonably sure the dual pulley would=
=20
solve the problem.

Dave
Ann Arbor, MI.
73 Sequoia (26'/455/EFI/HEI/160=B0)