Vehicle Air Conditioner

waldo love

New member
Nov 9, 1998
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Has anyone successfully modified a Type 2 Vehicle A/C unit to
recirculate air rather than use 100% outside air at all times?

According to my factory service manual, Type 1 does recirculate air on
when the controls are set to do so. Type 2 does not have the
capability, even though the control panel is the same as Type 1.

My vehicle A/C unit functions properly, but is inadequate to cool the
interior of the coach while driving.

Would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Waldo Love
76 Palm Beach
 
Check out http://www.web-access.net/~bmassey/air_conditing.html

Hope it helps.

bdub
76 Palm Beach

>Has anyone successfully modified a Type 2 Vehicle A/C unit to
>recirculate air rather than use 100% outside air at all times?
>
>According to my factory service manual, Type 1 does recirculate air on
>when the controls are set to do so. Type 2 does not have the
>capability, even though the control panel is the same as Type 1.
>
>My vehicle A/C unit functions properly, but is inadequate to cool the
>interior of the coach while driving.
>
>Would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
>
>Waldo Love
>76 Palm Beach
>
>
>
>
 
> Waldo
>
> At the GMC Convention in Ashville, Zay Brand had a handout on how to
> modify the various models to improve things. Maybe you can get a copy
> thru GMC INTERNATIONAL.

Thanks.

Bill Massey posted a web site with this info. I have a print from that
site.

Waldo
76 Palm Beach
 
Waldo

At the GMC Convention in Ashville, Zay Brand had a handout on how to
modify the various models to improve things. Maybe you can get a copy
thru GMC INTERNATIONAL.

Wayne Newland

> Has anyone successfully modified a Type 2 Vehicle A/C unit to
> recirculate air rather than use 100% outside air at all times?
>
> According to my factory service manual, Type 1 does recirculate air on
> when the controls are set to do so. Type 2 does not have the
> capability, even though the control panel is the same as Type 1.
>
> My vehicle A/C unit functions properly, but is inadequate to cool the
> interior of the coach while driving.
>
> Would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
>
> Waldo Love
> 76 Palm Beach
 
> Has anyone successfully modified a Type 2 Vehicle A/C unit to
> recirculate air rather than use 100% outside air at all times?
>

Waldo,
Last weekend I followed Ray Zand's directions (compliments of Billy
Massey's post at http://www.web-access.net/~bmassey/air_conditing.html )
and modified my Type II system to recirculate the inside cabin air . I
accomplished this by using a 4 in hole saw to carefully cut the hole in
the back of the blower box which opened up a passageway next to the
firewall opposite and behind the Type II max air outlet ducts inside the
cab. I drilled pilot holes from the the outside through the newly expose
passageway and carefully cut a 2 3/8 by 5 inch hole in the firewall.
This hole or slot connected the previously hidden passageway to air
inside the cab. This air now feeds directly into the blower squirrel
cage. I fashioned an aluminum plate to cover the original outside air
inlet, but left two 1 1/2 inch holes in the plate at the top which I
covered with hardware cloth to keep the mice out. I also fashioned from
aluminum angle the diverter bar and installed it as shown in Ray's
instruction. I did not need to install the stiffener bar in the bottom
of the box since mine was already equipped with a piece of flat bar in
the area Ray's instructions said one was needed.

Was it successful? Well, I didn't have too many skinned knuckles and I
definitely can tell that the inside cabin air is now being pulled in to
the return air duct. I have noticed that the AC compressor now does not
cycle off as frequently as before. I am speculating at this point that
there is now less ice building up on the evaporator coil which lessens the
need for the compressor to be cut off by the freeze protection switch.
This I believe would be because the cabin air now becomes less and less
humid as it recirculates in the AC system ,as compared to the humid air
that was continuously being drawn in by original Type II arrangement and
was freezing on the evaporator.. Therefore the cab area feels cooler,
but that may be because the AC is now better able to dehumidify the space.

I haven't had time yet to do much road testing of the new (for me)
system, so I can't conclusively say if the modifications will prove to be
a big improvement. And it could be a while before I am able to road test
it properly. This is because tonight while trying to run the fan clutch
diagnostic test outlined in the shop manual, an O-ring blew out on the
high pressure cut off switch. All I could do was cut off the engine and
watch that precious R12 escape to deplete more of the Ozone Layer. The
hoses and fittings are all less than 2 years old so I don't know why the
blow out occurred.. I hope the fan clutch diagnostic test was not the
cause of the blow out. I suspect it was just coincidental.

Well, as Arch would say, that's what I did.

Phil Stewart
'76 Transmode, TN
 
Emery
I had never done this fan clutch test before, so I was quite surprised at the
results. A friend of mine who is not on this list but has worked with
automotive AC systems for 30 years or more told me that excessive pressures and
blows out in the system are more likely to happen than not if air through the
condenser is blocked. He was amazed that GM has this fan clutch procedure in
the shop manual. His recommendation was to perform the test without running
the AC. Well, you live and learn. But in this case it was as the expense of
the Ozone Layer and my wallet. Now I've got to see if any AC shops in the
Chattanooga still have any R12 supplies that haven't yet turned to liquid gold.
,
Phil Stewart
'76 Transmode, TN

> diagnostic test outlined in the shop manual, an O-ring blew out on the
> high pressure cut off switch. All I could do was cut off the engine and
> watch that precious R12 escape >>
>
> Phil -- very interesting. I had recently installed a condenser due to a
> cracked tube and then following the instructions in the manual also ran the
> fan clutch test as you did and the high pressure switch blew out around the
> electrical contacts and I also lost the whole R&12 charge. I suspect the
> rapid turning on and off of the compressor brought the pressures up higher
> than this part could stand.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
 
>
> > Has anyone successfully modified a Type 2 Vehicle A/C unit to
> > recirculate air rather than use 100% outside air at all times?
> >
>
> Waldo,
> Last weekend I followed Ray Zand's directions (compliments of Billy
> Massey's post at http://www.web-access.net/~bmassey/air_conditing.html )
> and modified my Type II system to recirculate the inside cabin air .

Phil,

Thanks much for the input. Between Zay's post and your input, I think I can
do it.

Sorry about your R-12.

Now would appear to be the time to convert to R-134. Its really a snap and
buying the refrigerant doesn't require certification. Your auto parts house
will have conversion instructions and parts.

They recommend flushing the system (which is a pain), but I know of people who
have simply dumped R-134 into the old system, no new (different) oil,
nothing. This I wouldn't do.

But - if you have no trash in your system (blown compressor), you can remove
the compressor, drain the oil and then replace the receiver/dryer. You'll
remove 90% of the old oil. While not a substitute for the new oil, the
residual old oil will mix with the new.

I successfully converted a dual system '87 Ford Van when the system leaked so
badly I couldn't afford R-12. Also just replaced a compressor on my '93 Chevy
Van. I'm using an old automotive add on A/C compressor for a vacuum pump and
can get almost 30".

If you can borrow a set of R-134 gauges, good. I bought cheapies from J.C.
Whitney for $99.00. Beware, the fittings on the "recharger/conversion" kits
often don't work properly.

Best regards,

Waldo Love
76 Palm Beach, NC
 
Waldo,

"I drilled pilot holes from the the outside through the newly expose
passageway and carefully cut a 2 3/8 by 5 inch hole in the firewall.
This hole or slot connected the previously hidden passageway to air
inside the cab."

I erred when I said I drilled the pilot holes (they were 1/2 inch hole
saws) from the outside. It was the other way around I started the holes
from inside the cab and when the whole saw pilot bit broke through the
fire wall I could confirm I was in the right location by looking from
the outside through the new 4 inch hole in in the back of the blower box
. Hope this makes some sense to you
.
Phil Stewart
'76 Transmode, TN
 
Phil, there is a product called "Freeze 12" that I have used with much
success to replace R12. It doesn't require different oil or o-rings, but
does require the farcical "certification" to buy. You can get the
certification on the internet, or by mail order course...costs $15 and is a
snap...

If you are interested in this and don't find a source for it easily, I'll
find out who the manufacturer is and get the info to you.

Lotsa folks converting to 134a, and I may have to some day, but I'm not
ready to go through the exercise of changing oil, o-rings, receivers, and
buying all new hoses etc when there is such a good alternative still to be
had. Price, by the way, is just about the same as R134a...about $6.50 a can.

Travis

- -----Original Message-----
From: plstewrt
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Vehicle Air Conditioner

>Emery
>I had never done this fan clutch test before, so I was quite surprised at
the
>results. A friend of mine who is not on this list but has worked with
>automotive AC systems for 30 years or more told me that excessive pressures
and
>blows out in the system are more likely to happen than not if air through
the
>condenser is blocked. He was amazed that GM has this fan clutch procedure
in
>the shop manual. His recommendation was to perform the test without
running
>the AC. Well, you live and learn. But in this case it was as the expense
of
>the Ozone Layer and my wallet. Now I've got to see if any AC shops in the
>Chattanooga still have any R12 supplies that haven't yet turned to liquid
gold.
>,
>Phil Stewart
>'76 Transmode, TN

>

>> > diagnostic test outlined in the shop manual, an O-ring blew out on the
>> high pressure cut off switch. All I could do was cut off the engine
and
>> watch that precious R12 escape >>
>>
>> Phil -- very interesting. I had recently installed a condenser due to a
>> cracked tube and then following the instructions in the manual also ran
the
>> fan clutch test as you did and the high pressure switch blew out around
the
>> electrical contacts and I also lost the whole R&12 charge. I suspect the
>> rapid turning on and off of the compressor brought the pressures up
higher
>> than this part could stand.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
 
> Phil, there is a product called "Freeze 12" that I have used with much
> success to replace R12. It doesn't require different oil or o-rings,

Don't want to start a flame war, but R134 does NOT require new O rings or
hoses. Anyone interested might do a little research to satisfy their curiosity.

Waldo
 
No flames here, but based on several conversions of other GM products in my
fleet...

O Rings - not a problem
Hoses - will not hold 134A, particularly the suction (low side) line.

That's all I know.

Mark Grady

| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-gmcmotorhome
| [mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Waldo Love
| Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 12:00 PM
| To: gmcmotorhome
| Subject: Re: GMC: Vehicle Air Conditioner
|
|
|
|

|
| > Phil, there is a product called "Freeze 12" that I have used with much
| > success to replace R12. It doesn't require different oil or o-rings,
|
| Don't want to start a flame war, but R134 does NOT require new O rings or
| hoses. Anyone interested might do a little research to satisfy
| their curiosity.
|
| Waldo
|
 
> No flames here, but based on several conversions of other GM products in my
> fleet...
>
> O Rings - not a problem
> Hoses - will not hold 134A, particularly the suction (low side) line.
>
> That's all I know.
>
> Mark Grady

Probably a very good point, Grady. My only conversion to date was an '87 Ford
Econoline. Six months and it's as good as ever. My 93 Chevy was already
equipped, all I did was replace the compressor.

Can you elaborate on your experiences with "suction hose not holding 134A".
Does that mean consistent failure after conversion from R12 to R134A?

As my R12 units fail or present major problems I plan to convert to R134A, so
would appreciate the benefit of your experience.

Thanks,

Waldo

>
>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: owner-gmcmotorhome
> | [mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Waldo Love
> | Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 12:00 PM
> | To: gmcmotorhome
> | Subject: Re: GMC: Vehicle Air Conditioner
> |
> |
> |
> |

> |
> | > Phil, there is a product called "Freeze 12" that I have used with much
> | > success to replace R12. It doesn't require different oil or o-rings,
> |
> | Don't want to start a flame war, but R134 does NOT require new O rings or
> | hoses. Anyone interested might do a little research to satisfy
> | their curiosity.
> |
> | Waldo
> |
 
Thanks to all for the comments/enlightenment. I did not realize that the
hoses/Orings leaked R-134A. I stand informed and appreciative.

The manufacturer of the R134A and Oil that I used indicated in his product manual
that the ester based oil and the residual mineral based oil would coexist without
cross contamination in the system.

If "molecular leakage" through rubber hoses/Orings (not changed in conversion) is
limited to one or two cans of refrigerant per season, I can live with that. And
remember, I don't have to guarantee my work.

In addition, on my next conversion I will flush the evaporator and condenser as
well as replace the receiver/dryer.

Thanks to all,

Waldo
76 PB
 
Waldo --

I read all the replies before writing this one... so mostly ditto on
everything Emery said.

| I did not realize that the
| hoses/Orings leaked R-134A. I stand informed and appreciative.

GM O-rings don't tend to leak but replacing them if you have the connection
open is always cheap insurance against a leak.

The big hoses (suction) on our early conversions would ooze fluorescent
tracer dye. They looked like big glowing worms. Even if I didn't change the
hoses, some of the old stuff ('85-90) forced a change when they just
wouldn't hold a charge.

I haven't had to change the hoses on some of the later stuff though
(91-94)... your luck may vary.

| If "molecular leakage" through rubber hoses/Orings (not changed
| in conversion) is
| limited to one or two cans of refrigerant per season, I can live
| with that. And
| remember, I don't have to guarantee my work.

Like you said -- if you don't mind puttin' a little in every year...
probably no big deal.

| In addition, on my next conversion I will flush the evaporator
| and condenser as
| well as replace the receiver/dryer.

Probably a good idea if you're going the 134 route. Emery's advice matches
my real world experience on all other counts.

Mark