Torsion bar porkchop

JShot

New member
Dec 31, 2006
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Cut two 4x6 blocks for the rear end, put them under the rear "race track" holes on the frame, and let the air out of the bags. The rear is now correct
height and won't move. Then I measured the front "race track" holes - supposed to be 13-1/8" to top of hole. Both sides right on the money - at
10-1/4"! Whoops...
So I started with the pass side. Used the tool to unload and removed the adjusting screw (actually not that easy as I had to bottle jack up the front
to unload some of the weight of the coach). Cleaned all parts and coated with anti sieze and screwed the adj bold back into the big nut block - ALL
the way up. Then let the unloader tool bolt down. There is no more adjustment on this bolt, AND the pork chop will only go another 3/4" before it hits
the cross member. Jumped on the bumper a couple of times (I know, I know) and measured to the hole again. Went from 10-1/4 to 11-1/8. I'll drive it
and check it tomorrow, but it has to go another 2". Ain't gonna happen with this setup...
So, find a new PC with a different angle, buy the adjustable ones from Jim, or find someone who has a set of Peter Huber's new torsion bars. What say
you.
Thanks,
John

--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
 
Call Manny.
Jim Hupy

> Cut two 4x6 blocks for the rear end, put them under the rear "race track"
> holes on the frame, and let the air out of the bags. The rear is now correct
> height and won't move. Then I measured the front "race track" holes -
> supposed to be 13-1/8" to top of hole. Both sides right on the money - at
> 10-1/4"! Whoops...
> So I started with the pass side. Used the tool to unload and removed the
> adjusting screw (actually not that easy as I had to bottle jack up the front
> to unload some of the weight of the coach). Cleaned all parts and coated
> with anti sieze and screwed the adj bold back into the big nut block - ALL
> the way up. Then let the unloader tool bolt down. There is no more
> adjustment on this bolt, AND the pork chop will only go another 3/4" before
> it hits
> the cross member. Jumped on the bumper a couple of times (I know, I know)
> and measured to the hole again. Went from 10-1/4 to 11-1/8. I'll drive it
> and check it tomorrow, but it has to go another 2". Ain't gonna happen
> with this setup...
> So, find a new PC with a different angle, buy the adjustable ones from
> Jim, or find someone who has a set of Peter Huber's new torsion bars. What
> say
> you.
> Thanks,
> John
>
> --
> John Shotwell
> Ridgeville Corners, OH
> 78 Royale Center Kitchen
> Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
> Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Did you adjust both torsion bars this way and run out of threads on both of them? If not, then you are lifting the entire front end with one torsion
bar. This will cause an extreme unbalance crosswise on the suspension. Try adjusting the other side and see what happens. Then you might need to
back off the first one to bring the system back into proper balance.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
I have both bars/ porkchops. When installed. The 78 GMC was at the proper height. And still had about 3/8" adjustment left. Bob Dunahugh
 
That adjustment of the torsion bars seems to always be a struggle. I seen some longer adjustment bolts the other week. So someone does make a
longer bolt.

I think you really have to drive the vehicle to make sure it is all settled in. I have seen a number of coaches start messing with those adjusters
and seem like it never goes as planned.
--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
> That adjustment of the torsion bars seems to always be a struggle. I seen some longer adjustment bolts the other week. So someone does make a
> longer bolt.

i got my longer bolts from Applied GMC.

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
Her is the problem. You have the rear blocked at equal height so they will not affect what you are doing on the front.

Before you started were the adjusters near equal on ride height and the positions of the adjuster screws?

If so then you now have one side adjusted to high taking most of the weight of the front end. If this is true, stop my hangar and we will set the two
adjusters using scales to equal weight. Then we will adjust the pair. up or down to meed you expected ride height.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
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Thanks to all for comments and suggestions! Here's the latest:
Remember when we left this story, the passenger side had no more threads left on the adjusting screw, and the top of the hole was at 11-1/8".
So yesterday I attacked the driver's side. The coach was still blocked up at the rear. I measured to the top of the hole, and it was about an inch and
a half low. So I did all the things needed to be able to screw in the pork chop adjusting screw. I took a guess and screwed it in about a 1/2 inch.
Then I took the unloader tool off, and went for a 15 mile ride.
When I got back, I measured the rears, and the fronts - no rear blocks, just driven into the barn straight ahead.
You're NOT going to believe this, but the rears were on the money, and the fronts - both of them were at factory height +- 1/8".
As I stated before, the passenger side PC adjusting bolt is all the way screwed in, and now the drivers side bolt has about 1/2" of threads showing
(below the nut).
We're going to take a little trip tomorrow, and I'll see how it rides and handles, and measure everything when we get back.
John (happy at the moment)
--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
 
Hi Shot. The rears will stay the same no mater what you do to the front. Just cause the ride height is spot on does not mean it is weight balanced.
You still need to put it on the scales at Kens and balance the front then set ride height.

> Thanks to all for comments and suggestions! Here's the latest:
> Remember when we left this story, the passenger side had no more threads left on the adjusting screw, and the top of the hole was at 11-1/8".
> So yesterday I attacked the driver's side. The coach was still blocked up at the rear. I measured to the top of the hole, and it was about an inch
> and a half low. So I did all the things needed to be able to screw in the pork chop adjusting screw. I took a guess and screwed it in about a 1/2
> inch. Then I took the unloader tool off, and went for a 15 mile ride.
> When I got back, I measured the rears, and the fronts - no rear blocks, just driven into the barn straight ahead.
> You're NOT going to believe this, but the rears were on the money, and the fronts - both of them were at factory height +- 1/8".
> As I stated before, the passenger side PC adjusting bolt is all the way screwed in, and now the drivers side bolt has about 1/2" of threads
> showing (below the nut).
> We're going to take a little trip tomorrow, and I'll see how it rides and handles, and measure everything when we get back.
> John (happy at the moment)

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Well, let's put a tote box on the passenger side of the coach, and fill it
with 500 pounds of washers. What will happen to the ride height on that
side? Will it be higher or lower? Logic will tell you that it will be lower
on that side, UNLESS THE TOTE IS OVER THE REAR WHEELS OR BEHIND THEM.
If it is over the front wheels, it will for sure alter ride height.
So, load changes ride height. That is why weighing the coach wheel by
wheel is important before any adjustment of the pork chops is undertaken.
Once that is known, then decisions can be made on adjustments.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 3:52 PM Charles Boyd
wrote:

> Hi Shot. The rears will stay the same no mater what you do to the front.
> Just cause the ride height is spot on does not mean it is weight balanced.
> You still need to put it on the scales at Kens and balance the front then
> set ride height.
>
>

> > Thanks to all for comments and suggestions! Here's the latest:
> > Remember when we left this story, the passenger side had no more threads
> left on the adjusting screw, and the top of the hole was at 11-1/8".
> > So yesterday I attacked the driver's side. The coach was still blocked
> up at the rear. I measured to the top of the hole, and it was about an inch
> > and a half low. So I did all the things needed to be able to screw in
> the pork chop adjusting screw. I took a guess and screwed it in about a 1/2
> > inch. Then I took the unloader tool off, and went for a 15 mile ride.
> > When I got back, I measured the rears, and the fronts - no rear blocks,
> just driven into the barn straight ahead.
> > You're NOT going to believe this, but the rears were on the money, and
> the fronts - both of them were at factory height +- 1/8".
> > As I stated before, the passenger side PC adjusting bolt is all the way
> screwed in, and now the drivers side bolt has about 1/2" of threads
> > showing (below the nut).
> > We're going to take a little trip tomorrow, and I'll see how it rides
> and handles, and measure everything when we get back.
> > John (happy at the moment)
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
If this was my coach, before doing anything else, I would screw the passenger side bolt out one half the amount of thread showing on the driver side.
Then screw the driver side bolt in that same amount. Go drive and recheck. You may very well be done, I'd still recheck with scales.

Hal Kading 78 Buskirk Las Cruces NM
 
Ok, so I get the weighing thing. Maybe I don't. What I don't get is if the adjustments are made based on the weight measurements at the wheels, what
happens when you put in 40 gallons of water next to the propane tank? What happens when your black tank fills up ( it's off center in a '78 Royale)?
What do you do when you've got 300 lbs of people sitting on the bunk bed couch (I know, tell them to move)? Don't forget, this coach was the 1st to
have the AirLift wireless air system on the rear, so there is no automatic adjustment of the rear height.
Now before someone says "well, that's your problem", I can adjust the pressure in each bag independently in 1# increments in, lets say 10 seconds -
the rear ride height can be easily adjusted. So maybe this air system has nothing to do with all of this, or maybe it does. I don't know.
So I am certainly willing to have the coach weighed, and further TB adjustments made if necessary, but someone has to "splain it, Lucy" to me how it
all works...
John
--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
 
But Jim,
The weight on each wheel will NEVER be constant from day to day. So are you just going to take an average and go with it? I don't get it...
--
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
Web Site: GMCmhRegistry.com
Email: john at gmcmhregistry dot com
 
OK so you are carrying approximately 8000 pounds on the rear axle (4 wheels). The ride height is automatically adjusted if you add or subtract a
substantial amount of weight, Done with the rear.

Now for the front adjustment, what you did was to block the rears in place at the correct height and that will not change if 200 or 300 pounds walks
in the door.

So now on the front you have two spring loaded (torsion bars) supporting around 4000 pounds total. How would you like to spread the weight on the
front? 1000 left - 3000 right, or 1500 - 2500, or 2000-2000? What do you think will happen if I start turning on the right torsion bar on the
2000-2000 scenario? Initially nothing will change in height but the right bar spring load will be higher and that wheel and torsion bar will accept
more and more weight that was formerly on the left. Eventually when it is turned far enough the coach will start to rise but the weight will be way
out of balance by then.

So what I usually do is to turn the torsion bars until the weights are equal in front. I shoot for weight within 100 pounds of each other. Then
measure the ride height and you will be surprised that the ride heights will also be within usually 1/4". Now that they are equal, raise or lower
both sides the same amount of turns to get the heights you want.

The weights will be equal, the ride heights will be what you want and you will have nearly equal lengths of thread on the adjusting bolts.

A couple of hundred pounds moving around will not affect much up front and you can not do anything about it as that adjustment is static.

On the rears however several hundred pounds will be automatically adjusted for by the air ride system. Just tonight I mounted my 350 pound Honda on
the receiver in the back to carry to Amana. When I got in and turned the key on the adjusters and compressor kicked in and brought the rear back up
to ideal ride height. Also coach leaning on the road due to higher crowned roads or a decent cross wind will also be automatically compensated for.

So you have a coach with 1/3 static adjustment (front) and 2/3rds automatic adjustment for load or environment variables.

HTH

Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Thanks, Ken.

Couple questions....

Is there a way to set height without weighing between each adjustment for those of us who don't have scales?

If the rear weights are not equal when the coach is lowered, won't the heavier side (more pressure in the bag on that side once the rear bags make the
rear level) change the ride height on the opposite front wheel?

What is the expected deadband for the levelers, and will approaching automatic leveling from different directions affect the rear height?

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Hi Bill, I=E2=80=99m not Ken but can offer a couple of observations ba=
sed on designing an alignment kit for our GMCs (which I no longer produce).=
The first step in any alignment is to set ride height. As others have sai=
d, you have to set the rear ride height first (by altering the amount of ai=
r pressure in each rear air bag) and block the rear of the coach at proper =
ride height. Now measure the front ride height. Unless something is reall=
y amiss, both front adjusters should be set at about the same place. =
Jack up and safely block the front while you use a professional torsion =
bar unloading tool to take the pressure off the adjusters. The thing on th=
e end of the torsion bar is referred to as a =E2=80=9Cpork chop=E2=80=9D be=
cause of its shape. The hex end goes over the end of the torsion bar and t=
he part of the pork chop facing the center of the coach has a small platfor=
m onto which the adjuster bolt rests. The centerline of the torsion bar to=
the center line of that platform is only around 3=E2=80=9D so trying to li=
ft the weight of the front of the coach by just cranking on the adjuster bo=
lt will not work. There is just too much weight load over that short lever=
distance and you will strip out that adjuster bolt and nut. That is why y=
ou must use a professional torsion bar unloading tool first, to take the we=
ight load off. Once the weight is off the adjuster remove the bolt and the=
rectangular nut, clean the threads and lubricate them with anti-seize comp=
ound. Place them back in position. If you have access to a set of scales=
, use them under both front wheels. If not, then assuming the coach was ri=
de height low in front (most all of them are), then turn the adjuster with =
the most bolt threads showing upward with the load off six to eight turns. =
Release the torsion bar unloader slowly to confirm the adjuster bolt sits =
properly on the platform on the pork chop. Go to the other side and do the=
same thing until the amount of thread showing is about the same as the fir=
st side. Now slowly and carefully lower the coach, remove the rear blocks =
and drive two to five miles to allow the suspension to settle into where it=
will be when driving down the road. Leave the rear alone and recheck =
front ride height. Readjust if necessary. There is enough hysteresis in t=
he suspension (stickiness or unwillingness for the suspension to move easil=
y) that the only way it will settle to where it will be is by driving those=
two to five miles. No amount of yanking on or jumping on the bumper will =
do it and is just a wast of time. Most people fid it takes two to three it=
erations of measure, adjust, drive and remeasure to get it right. If you t=
orsion bars are weak from age then you might run out of adjustment room on =
the adjustment bolt and a replacement, longer, bolt will be needed. The GM=
C vendors have them. Just because you have the ride height right using=
this method does not guarantee that you are properly weight balanced left =
to right. For that you need scales and the weights at all four corners. =
There is lots of controversy about whether to use the stock =E2=80=9Caut=
omatic=E2=80=9D rear ride height adjustment or to use the wireless system w=
hich sets air pressure in each bag independently in order to achieve proper=
ride height. If the stock system is working perfectly, with no air leaks =
or other maladies, then it is just fine. After 40 plus years, most are not=
not working properly. And, to add insult to injury, check the factory spe=
cs. The devices that measure ride height with the factory system is either=
a lever moving a mechanical linkage or an optical shutter and it has a wor=
king range of +- 3/8=E2=80=9D. The factory spec for ride height is +- 1/4=
=E2=80=9D. Hmmmm. In all the coaches I checked or measured during the tim=
e I was doing the alignment jigs, I found that hysteresis was way more than=
+- 3/8=E2=80=9D so I found the wireless air a simpler, more reliable way t=
o control ride height. To each his own. You need to make that call for yo=
urself as there is no right or wrong answer here from my POV. But, you do =
want to wind up with nearly equal weight side to side in the rear and the f=
ront while ride height is at the factory setting front and rear. Doing tha=
t, and centering your steering box will likely make your coach into a one h=
and on the steering wheel relaxing ride. Final observation. Ignore th=
e factory alignment specs as they were established for bias ply tires and n=
ever changed after a quick adjustment of cutting back on static caster betw=
een 73 and 74 even though GM offered both bias ply and radial ply tires at =
different times during the production run. Bias ply and radial ply tires b=
ehave differently at speed. So, with radial ply tires you need all the sta=
tic caster you can get so long as both sides are equal. Most coaches run b=
est with camber and toe set to zero on the front wheels, and about one degr=
ee of tire in at the top camber and toe zero for all four rear wheels. =
Jerry Jerry Work The Dovetail Joint Fine furniture designed and ha=
nd crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR=
glwork http://jerrywork.com =
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 09:54:11 -0600 From: Bill=
Van Vlack To: gmclist Subje=
ct: Re: [GMCnet] Torsion bar porkchop Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset "utf-8" Thanks, =
Ken. Couple questions.... Is there a way to set height without we=
ighing between each adjustment for those of us who don't have scales? =
If the rear weights are not equal when the coach is lowered, won't the h=
eavier side (more pressure in the bag on that side once the rear bags make =
the rear level) change the ride height on the opposite front wheel? =
What is the expected deadband for the levelers, and will approaching automa=
tic leveling from different directions affect the rear height? -- =
Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (=
DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator=
; new owner a/o mid November 2015. =
 
Thanks, Jerry...

Another Q. If the ride height is set correctly after a drive, is it necessary to drive after a caster/camber/toe adjustment or can we allow the Les
Schwab tech to bounce/pull down the front to correct ride height for measuring and adjustments?

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Bill,

I believe that once ride height has been set ,the caster and camber can be
set without unloading the suspension at all. Lifting the coach off of the
suspension (which is advisable to avoid stripping the height adjuster) is
what requires running the coach for a few miles to get everything back in
it’s happy place. I don’t know if Les Schwab would be a good choice for
alignment work on a gmc. Unless of course you don’t have better options.

Sully
Bellevue wa

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 12:32 PM Bill Van Vlack
wrote:

> Thanks, Jerry...
>
> Another Q. If the ride height is set correctly after a drive, is it
> necessary to drive after a caster/camber/toe adjustment or can we allow the
> Les
> Schwab tech to bounce/pull down the front to correct ride height for
> measuring and adjustments?
>
>
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Only place within 30 miles of Guemes Island.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.