The next generation

M

mark grady

New member
May 2, 1998
460
0
0
Walter --

I think you've identified the next "science fair" project. In the next
millennium, we will have to equip our coaches with Apollo/Challenger grade
telemetry for a real-time report of all vital stats. As Arch says, its about
cooperation. Useful information collected, organized and available to anyone
who seeks it.

See your question to Marcus below:

> Great post. What sort of mileage did you get? If you know, what was
> the tranny temp?

Perhaps we need to have Don Miller get on this project!
(He can consult with Ken Thoma and Chuck Will's son.)

Couple that with Marcus' low earth orbit satellite dish, and we can have our
vital signs posted to the net in real time!

My gosh, we'll send them on a midnight raid to Schneider trucking in Green
Bay for a technology upgrade! We can start with the Canyon Lands, since
they're already orange.

As anyone on this list will tell you: "You've got the bug now!"

Mark
 
>data and analyze it. When one of us had a breakdown we could hit a
>button and the computer would analyze the data and check to see if
>any of us were getting close to those parameters and send us a warning.
>" You will lose the driverside front wheel in the next 15 minuets." Cool we
>now we can forget about myth and concentrate on enjoying the ladies.
>Wow can you imagine what the gurus would pay for this information.
>I will bet the system could be made to pay for its self. Oh well Arch is
>off in La La Land again. Thats what I think.

Maybe not so far off Arch. I used to work with a number of automotive
companies to instrument engines (and all other parts too) using smart
snesors and/or microcontrollers. The initial purpose was to collect
engineering data. Hoever, we collectively found that by using the right
control algorithms we could adjust for engine wear and a number of other
factors. That's one of the major factors behind the 100k miles tune-up-less
engines.

One of the major studies that sticks in my mind was bearing wear. I don't
have the references handy, but by doing the right signal processing you can
determine when bearings are beginning to fail. The approach uses acoustical
measurements from the hubs - the sound of healthy bearings and sick
bearings is different. I know that acoustic bearing monitors were being
installed in some very large machinery as a maintenance aid. Ahhh...
another potential GMC project - AFTER I get our coach interior completed.

Henry

Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (408) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
>Henry
>
>I too have seen the data on bearing failure. Thats why I said what I did.

I'm actually considering this one - who cares what the loads are if you
know x thousand miles before predicted failures?

>Heinz has got his engine talking to him---it will not be long before we
>can all have our ladies talking to us.

There's a replacement for spark plugs used in the auto labs that provide
temp and pressure readings in addition t the plug itself. The last I knew
they were several hundred dollars each.

>
>BTW I can get photos of what ever you want in the ceiling. My new
>headliner is not permanently up yet just let me know what you want a
>shot of and I can take it down and shoot.

We've replaced the rear headliner and the panel just in front. I'd like to
see what's around the driver side window just behind the driver, and the
front cap.

Did you have to remove the visors to take down the cap (if you did)?

Thanks,

Henry

Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (408) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Arch, it's not that far off.
The AV-10 Engine Monitor I'm installing samples all sensors every few
seconds. Every sensor can be set with hi and low limits (as may be
appropriate) and a warning is given by voice and lamp and flashing display
giving the what and it's value.

I'm going to log the whole schmeer to a PC, probably at 5 minute intervals
to start with until I get an idea of how much space it'll take up per hour
of travel.

Then I'm going to filter the data into Excel or something similar ( even if
I have to build a program from scratch ) to analize and graph as time goes
by.

Unfortunatel there is a downside... too much information. The good old if
you don't know one is less likely to wory about. Case in point, my #5
cylinder is running 350-400 degress cooler on EGT than the highest during
startup/city driving. However once on the highway the diff between hottest
and coolest is 100-150 degrees. Of course it'll take a longer trip to get a
baseline on which future readings will be based on.

Couple of wrinkles to iron out yet but the next generation is closer than we
all think.

Heinz

>Mark
>
>Now lets all think about this for a second or two. If we all had good
>telemetry
>readings on our rigs Patrick could set up a site that would collect this
>data and analyze it. When one of us had a breakdown we could hit a
>button and the computer would analyze the data and check to see if
>any of us were getting close to those parameters and send us a warning.
>" You will lose the driverside front wheel in the next 15 minuets." Cool we
>now we can forget about myth and concentrate on enjoying the ladies.
>Wow can you imagine what the gurus would pay for this information.
>I will bet the system could be made to pay for its self. Oh well Arch is
>off in La La Land again. Thats what I think.
>
>Take Care
>Arch
>
>
>In a message dated 2/22/99 8:58:04 PM Central Standard Time,
mgrady
>writes:
>
>> I think you've identified the next "science fair" project. In the next
>> millennium, we will have to equip our coaches with Apollo/Challenger
grade
>> telemetry for a real-time report of all vital stats. As Arch says, its
>about
>> cooperation. Useful information collected, organized and available to
>anyone
>> who seeks it.
>>
>
>
 
Henry as I am sure you are aware, over 90% of bearing failures are caused by
seal failure and improper lubricants.

>
>>data and analyze it. When one of us had a breakdown we could hit a
>>button and the computer would analyze the data and check to see if
>>any of us were getting close to those parameters and send us a warning.
>>" You will lose the driverside front wheel in the next 15 minuets." Cool we
>>now we can forget about myth and concentrate on enjoying the ladies.
>>Wow can you imagine what the gurus would pay for this information.
>>I will bet the system could be made to pay for its self. Oh well Arch is
>>off in La La Land again. Thats what I think.
>
>Maybe not so far off Arch. I used to work with a number of automotive
>companies to instrument engines (and all other parts too) using smart
>snesors and/or microcontrollers. The initial purpose was to collect
>engineering data. Hoever, we collectively found that by using the right
>control algorithms we could adjust for engine wear and a number of other
>factors. That's one of the major factors behind the 100k miles tune-up-less
>engines.
>
>One of the major studies that sticks in my mind was bearing wear. I don't
>have the references handy, but by doing the right signal processing you can
>determine when bearings are beginning to fail. The approach uses acoustical
>measurements from the hubs - the sound of healthy bearings and sick
>bearings is different. I know that acoustic bearing monitors were being
>installed in some very large machinery as a maintenance aid. Ahhh...
>another potential GMC project - AFTER I get our coach interior completed.
>
>Henry
>
>Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
>PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
>Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
>ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
>fax: (408) 462-5198
>http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
Speaking of headliners. Ours is kind of shabby and needs to be replaced.

What did you use to replace your headliner? Do you have a photo of your new
ceiling? I would imagine it was (or is) a big job.

Thanks, Richard Waters -1976 Palm Beach, Troy, MI
- -------

> >Henry
> >
> >>
> >BTW I can get photos of what ever you want in the ceiling. My new
> >headliner is not permanently up yet just let me know what you want a
> >shot of and I can take it down and shoot.
>
> We've replaced the rear headliner and the panel just in front.
>
> Henry
>
> Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
> PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
> Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
> ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
> fax: (408) 462-5198
> http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Heinz said...
> Then I'm going to filter the data into Excel or something similar
> ( even if I have to build a program from scratch ) to analize and graph
> as time goes by.

That is a truly great idea Heinz, and the largest privately held software
firm in the world just (this week) announced a product (CBI)that needs
your data collection software system. Their product combines data
management and knowledge management (or as the marketing guys said,
"Numbers and text together for the first time ever in a meaningfull and
useful way."

Hey Henry... maybe a prospect for you?
Their product (an object database) combines relational and/or
multidimensional data with unstructured data such as: e-mail, text
documents, Web pages, and spreadsheets.

Hey Arch get this...
The system *requires* users to systematically file DATA to the group
memory via e-mail and the group memory uses a search/query engine made by
Verity. There is still a question in the market place as to how well
this solution (CBI) will work, because the two worlds are so radically
different, and there has historically been no common means to share
metadata between the two. The other major hurdle is that, it requires a
fundemental change in the way things are (or have been) done.

And Heinz... their product which is called (CBI) "Collabrative Busness
Intelligence" runs on Unix and Windows/NT.

Read all about it!!!! It's coming I think...
http://www.sas.com/new/feature/07feb99/cbi.html

- --
Regards,
John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.
 
This is the kernel of the CBI solution (kind of a Lotus Notes without all
the Notes overhead)

Collaborative Business Intelligence allows companies to unlock the power
of their data stores by creating collaborative, contextual information
environments. Analysts who traditionally use business-intelligence tools
to look for important business factors can now save their findings into a
knowledge repository, making it easily accessible to the rest of the
organization over the Web. Decision makers become more engaged in the
knowledge-building process as they add to the thread, and everyone can
search for similar projects and re-use ideas that have worked in the
past.

The Value of Linking Structured and Unstructured Information

Creating CBI environments will allow organizations to expand the way they
are already doing business by knowledge-enabling their existing and
future business processes. Organizations will be able to link structured
data - the reports, and graphics created by business-intelligence tools,
with unstructured information-the documents, email, and on-line
discussions that support structured data. By surfacing this linked
information through a Web browser, everyone in the organization can
benefit from the capture, organization, and re-use of corporate
knowledge. As a result, knowledge remains available regardless of
employee availability or mobility, and current systems are better
utilized.

- --
Regards,
John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.
 
I just inserted GMCnet into some of this company's product descriptions.

The Value of Linking Structured and Unstructured Information in a group
such as GMCnet...

(They are calling it a CBI or a Collaborative Business Intelligence
environment. In our case it would be a CUI or a Collaborative User
Intelligence environment)

Creating a CUI environment would allow GMCnet to expand the way they
are already providing GMC user support by knowledge-enabling their
existing and future support processes. GMCnet would be able to link
structured data - the measurements, and failure/non-failure data created
by users and online measurements with unstructured information - the
documents, email, on-line discussions, Web sites cited for reference,
etc. By surfacing this linked information through a Web browser,
everyone in the organization can benefit from the capture, organization,
and re-use of the GMCnet knowledge. As a result, knowledge remains
available regardless of employee availability or mobility, and current
support systems are better utilized.

- --
Regards,
John 74 Glacier near Washington, DC.
 
>
>OK I am going to up the ante. My drag racing buddy has this little thing
>that he can point at any object and read its temperature.

Too late... :-)
Picked one up when I went to the SEMA show. Neat gadget.
Hope to get a baseline on temps for wheel bearings. This manual method will
have to do until the engineers on this list get a permanent sensor scheme
mounted.

> Yes, he goes
>down the exhaust manifold and looks for ones that are out of line. He
>can also scan a radiator and see if it has any plugged tubes. Take the
>diff temp standing behind the car. I want one that has a fiber optic line
>to each thing we want to measure then just scans them and reports
>back. Would not have to drill into exhaust ect. Thats what I want.

I agree. It's kinda tough to keep it pointed straight and drive at the same
time :-)
And it's really tough to find a volunteer to hang out the window to measure
bearing temps on the go.

Heinz

>
>Take Care
>Arch 76 GB IL Snowed all day, then the rain came--snow all gone.
>
>
>In a message dated 2/23/99 1:05:46 AM Central Standard Time,

>
>>
>> Unfortunatel there is a downside... too much information. The good old
if
>> you don't know one is less likely to wory about. Case in point, my #5
>> cylinder is running 350-400 degress cooler on EGT than the highest
during
>> startup/city driving. However once on the highway the diff between
hottest
>> and coolest is 100-150 degrees. Of course it'll take a longer trip to
get a
>> baseline on which future readings will be based on.
>>
>
>
 
I don't know how many of us have changed the headliner, but I just got finished
with mine. I went to AZ and meet up with Tom Bradley, who helped me (did most
of the hard stuff) and we redid my entire ceiling, put in 1/8th in luan
paneling, then a 1/8 in foam backing to some ceiling carpet. Looks
wonderful... just wonderful. I also, at the same time installed the aluminum
baffled insulation in every nook and crany and went crazy fitting in beteen
supports. The effort was worthwhile. Tom also made me all new side pieces
that replaced the ones I had and new vinyl sides made out of the same stuff.
He is a pro and his help was exceptional. If you need, I can give you his
number. He just retired and can work with/for you in doing what I did to
mine. You have to see the job he did on his. What a great rig. Anyway, let
me know if you need more, or if you want his number.
Al Chernoff
77 Eleganza II

> Speaking of headliners. Ours is kind of shabby and needs to be replaced.
>
> What did you use to replace your headliner? Do you have a photo of your new
> ceiling? I would imagine it was (or is) a big job.
>
> Thanks, Richard Waters -1976 Palm Beach, Troy, MI
> -------
>

>

> > >Henry
> > >
> > >>
> > >BTW I can get photos of what ever you want in the ceiling. My new
> > >headliner is not permanently up yet just let me know what you want a
> > >shot of and I can take it down and shoot.
> >
> > We've replaced the rear headliner and the panel just in front.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
> > PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
> > Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
> > ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
> > fax: (408) 462-5198
> > http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Gee I'm out of date too!

It really bothers me that I don't what a "CUI environment" is because I own an
industrial automation company and all we do is work with computers and networks!

Richard W. '76 Palm Beach
- ------

> WAHOO
>
> I am out of date again!!!!!
>
> In a message dated 2/23/99 11:31:25 PM Central Standard Time, jdolan

>
> >
> > Creating a CUI environment would allow GMCnet to expand the way they
> > are already providing GMC user support by knowledge-enabling their
> > existing and future support processes. GMCnet would be able to link
> > structured data - the measurements, and failure/non-failure data created
> > by users and online measurements with unstructured information - the
> > documents, email, on-line discussions, Web sites cited for reference,
> > etc. By surfacing this linked information through a Web browser,
> > everyone in the organization can benefit from the capture, organization,
> > and re-use of the GMCnet knowledge. As a result, knowledge remains
> > available regardless of employee availability or mobility, and current
> > support systems are better utilized.
> >
 
>Speaking of headliners. Ours is kind of shabby and needs to be replaced.
>
>What did you use to replace your headliner? Do you have a photo of your new
>ceiling? I would imagine it was (or is) a big job.
>
>Thanks, Richard Waters -1976 Palm Beach, Troy, MI

We've replaced the rear two panels so far. I've been holding off fixing the
front for a variety of reasons - mostly based on a strong desire to take
the stuff down ONCE.

For the rear headliner and next headliner panels we used 1/8 inch luan
plywood.

The old headliner came out with no problems - take down the two storage
lockers, unscrew the molding (keep the channel-you'll need it) and remove
the old headliner carefully.

Use the old headliner to make a pattern (or mark directly on the luan). We
finshed the rear headliner using a satin urethane.

Putting the new heqadliner in was a bunch of work. The old headliner is a
cardboard type of aterial and bends pretty easily. The luan is more
difficult. It took two of us to bend the luan and slide it in under the
ceiling extrusions and over the bathroom module. Then it didn't fit. So we
took it out - the luan was the same size as the old headliner. After a
while I noticed that the forward corners of the old headliner were both
bent. Looking between the ceiling and bath module I noticed an obstruction
- - cut the corners on the luan and reinstalled it.

The next headliner section was a piece of cake. Just remove the spacer trim
over the bath module, remove the light fixture, unscrew the 120 fixture,
and then slide the headliner towards the drivers' side until there's enough
room to drop the curb side down to pull it out. Use the old headliner as a
pattern. Reinstalling the new headliner is the reverse of removal.

I'll have to take this panel down again since it looks like we've about
decided on the headliner material for the rest of the coach. We'll glue the
fabric to the luan and reinstall.

Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (408) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Henry:

Thanks for the detailed info. I'm going to consider doing this as soon as the
weather warms up here in Michigan.

What kind of fabric are you using?

Thanks,
Richard Waters
- -----

> >Speaking of headliners. Ours is kind of shabby and needs to be replaced.
> >
>
>
> We've replaced the rear two panels so far. I've been holding off fixing the
> front for a variety of reasons - mostly based on a strong desire to take
> the stuff down ONCE.
>
> FHenry
> Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
> PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
> Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
> ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
> fax: (408) 462-5198
> http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Richard,

I can tell you what we're not using since my wife has made that
detemination clear: no fuzzy stuff. She wants to make sure it's washable
with a sponge. She likes some headliner material that we recently received
as a sample. It's foam backed and comes in two styles = both white. One
with holes similar to the original headliner and the other solid with a
patterned surface.

Next alternative is probably a fabric style of wall paper that is washable.

Hope this helps,

Henry

>Henry:
>
>Thanks for the detailed info. I'm going to consider doing this as soon as the
>weather warms up here in Michigan.
>
>What kind of fabric are you using?
>
>Thanks,
>Richard Waters
>-----
>

>

>> >Speaking of headliners. Ours is kind of shabby and needs to be replaced.
>> >
>>
>>
>> We've replaced the rear two panels so far. I've been holding off fixing the
>> front for a variety of reasons - mostly based on a strong desire to take
>> the stuff down ONCE.
>>

Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (831) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Henry,
I guess the "fuzzy stuff" is out here as well for the same reasons. Where did you
get your samples. Mail order or a local retailer?

Richard Waters.

> Richard,
>
> I can tell you what we're not using since my wife has made that
> detemination clear: no fuzzy stuff. She wants to make sure it's washable
> with a sponge. She likes some headliner material that we recently received
> as a sample. It's foam backed and comes in two styles = both white. One
> with holes similar to the original headliner and the other solid with a
> patterned surface.
>
> Next alternative is probably a fabric style of wall paper that is washable.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Henry
>

> >Henry:
> >
> >Thanks for the detailed info. I'm going to consider doing this as soon as the
> >weather warms up here in Michigan.
> >
> >What kind of fabric are you using?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Richard Waters
> >-----
> >

> >

> >> >Speaking of headliners. Ours is kind of shabby and needs to be replaced.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> We've replaced the rear two panels so far. I've been holding off fixing the
> >> front for a variety of reasons - mostly based on a strong desire to take
> >> the stuff down ONCE.
> >>
>
> Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
> PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
> Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
> ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
> fax: (831) 462-5198
> http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
>Henry,
>I guess the "fuzzy stuff" is out here as well for the same reasons. Where
did you
>get your samples. Mail order or a local retailer?

Scott Nehoda sent me some samples from the soundown company
http://www.soundown.com

Check out their headliner links. nice material. A bit pricey I think.

Henry

Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (831) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
EMERY:
When you papered the ceiling did you pull down the ceiling panels or just trim
around the stuff hanging up there. I can't figure out how to get the plastic trim
piece off where wall and ceiling come together and don't really want to know if I
don't have to.
Bill 76 Edgemont

>
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
 
I did my entire coach with the help of Tom Bradley in AZ. I used luan mahogony
at 1/8" and put new celing insulation when I had the entire thing off. Did new
sides as well. Found some neat 1/8" foam to use as a backing and put some carpet
material on top of the foam. My coach looks like new and the I really like how
it turned out. I also put in a dropped ceiling of about 3/4" so I could recess
some new lights. Hope that helps
Al chernoff

>
> trim
> around the stuff hanging up there. I can't figure out how to get the plastic
> trim
> piece off where wall and ceiling come together and don't really want to know
> if I
> don't have to.
> Bill 76 Edgemont >>
>
> Rather that try to get all the old foam off the panels (plus I had one that
> had water damage from around the Air Conditioner, I removed all panels and cut
> new ones from 1/8" tempered masonite (others have suggested 1/8" luan plywood
> which should work well). The plastic trim piece has a center bead running
> down the center of the lower side. There are metal clips on the metal frame
> below the plastic strips. If you pull up on one end with your hands and then
> put a screwdriver toward the clips you should be able to pry it up. Be
> careful, its plastic and its old and might crack. Mine came out OK. Putting
> it back is just centering it on the clips and tapping it in with your palm or
> a rubber hammer. Our fabric/vinyl wallpaper came in a 54" width so there were
> no seams on the individual panels. We put a wallpaper primer on the boards
> and then used a heavy duty wallpaper paste. The wallpaper shop should be able
> to get you the right one. I probably still have some scraps if you need a
> sample to show to dealers. The store I bought it from is now out of business
> so I don't have a recommendation as to where to buy it and I don't have a
> brand name.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
 
EMERY
Thanks for info, bout what I expected. Had the overhead cabinets out when I
redid the walls and that was'nt too bad. The walls on bath, shower, frig area and
closet look like they might pose more of a problem though. I redid my wall panels
with fabric paper , took them out and wrapped around edges, looks pretty good.
Had a hard time finding good selection of fabric paper though
and don't remember seeing any that was 54" wide. Guess I'd best find the covering
before I get too destructive inside.
Bill 76 Edgemont

>
> trim
> around the stuff hanging up there. I can't figure out how to get the plastic
> trim
> piece off where wall and ceiling come together and don't really want to know
> if I
> don't have to.
> Bill 76 Edgemont >>
>
> Rather that try to get all the old foam off the panels (plus I had one that
> had water damage from around the Air Conditioner, I removed all panels and cut
> new ones from 1/8" tempered masonite (others have suggested 1/8" luan plywood
> which should work well). The plastic trim piece has a center bead running
> down the center of the lower side. There are metal clips on the metal frame
> below the plastic strips. If you pull up on one end with your hands and then
> put a screwdriver toward the clips you should be able to pry it up. Be
> careful, its plastic and its old and might crack. Mine came out OK. Putting
> it back is just centering it on the clips and tapping it in with your palm or
> a rubber hammer. Our fabric/vinyl wallpaper came in a 54" width so there were
> no seams on the individual panels. We put a wallpaper primer on the boards
> and then used a heavy duty wallpaper paste. The wallpaper shop should be able
> to get you the right one. I probably still have some scraps if you need a
> sample to show to dealers. The store I bought it from is now out of business
> so I don't have a recommendation as to where to buy it and I don't have a
> brand name.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GMCMI Fall 2026 Rally
Applied GMC

Share this page

Share this page
Top Bottom
Back