steering

[Jim Hupy]

You absolutely need to set the rear ride height correctly first of all.
Then, immobilize the bogie boxes at that height and turn off your automatic
height adjusters, no matter which ones your coach has.
Then, and ONLY THEN, can you proceed with the front torsion bar
adjustments. Weight and balance between sides is quite critical. Try to
adjust your side to side weights .as close to the same as you can. With
some coaches, this is hard to do, but it is important.
Each time you lift the front end and adjust the torsion bars, the
coach should be driven several miles to settle it down. If you do not do
this, don't waste your time doing any alignment adjustments.
They won't be accurate.. I have done dozens of these coaches and learned
these lessons the hard way.
If you do not know anything else, remember this point. "THE BACK OF
THE COACH CAN AND DOES STEER THE COACH" Check the front bogies for any slop
or bending. If you find anything wrong, fix it first.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

> Jon,
> With Microlevel the height should be easy. Worst case use the remote to
> tweek the rear height if you mess with the front height.
> ________________________________
> From: Brian Waddell
> Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 11:26 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: sreering
>
> Yes that is why I am told to come back the next day after 50 miles, and
> recheck it...that is what this shop tells the semi-tractor owners on air
> bags in the rear with levelling valves exactly like ours and have a
> recommended ride height to maintain , as the ride height affects steering
> geometry as you well know
> Brian 77 ele 455
> sper,ing mb canada
> ________________________________
> From: Jon Roche
> Sent: November 1, 2021 2:46 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: sreering
>
> I disagree with your statement "the gmc front end is nothing new to
> reputable wheel alignment places that do heavier vehicles like ours and
> trucks."
>
>
> they do not always understand that when they jack up the coach front end,
> and set it back down, it needs to be driven, bounced, ect and re-checked
> because the suspension needs to "settle in". when you set the weight
> down on a coach, and check alinement. Then pull it off the lift, and
> back
> on, the specs are different before and after you lift up the weight.
>
> have seen 6+ coaches that were aligned at those shops, that were never
> right.
>
> also fwiw, our local Dodge Dealer can't align a dodge caravan correctly
> either. So the number of skilled shops/mechanics out there are getting
> less and less.
>
>

> > Most shops that do wheel alignments do not pay attention to the wheel
> wheels,,,they do not put the rear wheels on turntables to determine if the
> > the rear has play causing caster camber or toe...an example would be a
> bent frame.
> > However, the gmc front end is nothing new to reputable wheel alignment
> places that do heavier vehicles like ours and trucks.
> > One more however..I have attempted to check wheel alignment myself using
> Work's methods and henderson's methods and would say that the shoips (x2
> > )of what they said it was.....was supported by my measurements of caster
> 3.5 +...camber 0 and toe pretty much 0...go0d enough... and those on here
> > who tell of determining if the rear is out of whack or bent ..or play in
> stub axles....Thanks
> > Brian
> > 77 ele 455
> > sperling mb canada
> > ________________________________
> > From: John R.Lebetski
> > Sent: October 31, 2021 7:32 AM
> > To: gmclist
> > Subject: [GMCnet] Re: sreering
> >
> > Semi shops work on trucks with solid front axles and leaf springs. 99%
> of the time all they adjust is the toe. You need someone who understands
> > GM A
> > arm front ends and how caster and camber are adjusted and how the
> adjustments interact. I bought the Jerry Work home alignment kit and did
> mine
> > myself.
> > --
> > John Lebetski
> > Woodstock, IL
> > 77 Eleganza II
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
>
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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> GMCnet mailing list
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> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

 

[boybach]

Jim, both you and Ken refer to weighing the coach wheels and adjusting the weigh so you get even side to side results.
I'm not clear on what's involved in doing that.. Care to elaborate?

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses

 

[Jim Hupy]

We use portable scales, and drive the coach onto them, two wheels at a
time. We usually do this at a GMCWS rally. It is quite an eye opener to see
some of these coaches, and the weight difference between sides.
Some are easy to correct, others not so much. Just moving a battery
box from one side to the other, is one of the easier ways. Taking the
"spare parts" and moving them from side to side helps. Things like taking
the house batteries that are in the generator compartment, and moving them
is more difficult. Replacing high amperage demands of the coach, by getting
rid of appliances that use lots of current, trading incandescent lighting
with LED's.
This allows for changing out large, heavy generators for smaller,
lighter more efficient ones. Solar panels are another consideration. The
list goes on, but you get the idea. Start with weighing the coach, then
figure out how to go from there. Hope you get the idea.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

> Jim, both you and Ken refer to weighing the coach wheels and adjusting the
> weigh so you get even side to side results.
> I'm not clear on what's involved in doing that.. Care to elaborate?
>
> Larry
> --
> Larry - Victoria BC -
>
> 1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working
> but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
> exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat
> exchange hoses
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

 

[billvv]

I'll take a WAG here....

1. Go to a truck weigh station and weigh the rear wheels one at a time. Add or subtract weight to make them even. Go with the water tank full; maybe
you'll be lucky and only need to drain fresh water.

2. I think I mentioned this somewhere recently... Get a hefty I-beam and place it bogie-to-bogie across the coach. Place a jack at the center between
bogies. Orchestrate relieving pressure from the bags with weight distribution to raise the coach so that it's level side to side with the bags not
providing any support for the coach. I've never done this, but I think you'll want to rig up something that allows the coach to lean as it's raised. A
point load.

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.

 

[Ken B]

I not get back sooner but I have not home to do it.
Here is what I wrote up while traveling an using someone else's computer.

Here is the problem. The rears once set will automatically adjust the height when weight is added or reduced (changing the height) on one side and
not the other. Setting the rear ride height needs to be done correctly first. The sensing switches do not care about how much weight is on the pair
of wheels. They only care about changes in height. If one side is 400 or 600 pounds different than the other the air system will automatically
compensate by adding air to the heavy the side bag only.

The front is different. The front will lower or raise when enough extra weight is added to one side or the other. There is no level sensor to
automatically add air to adjust for this. So the fonts are a STATIC height adjustment while the rears are a DYNAMIC adjustment constantly changing
due to weight changes, or road slope changes, or cross wind changes, etc.

So on initial set up if you find one side in front too low and you adjust the torsion bar, you will be adding additional weight on that wheel. You
also will be adding additional weight (downward force) to the one pair of wheels diagonal to it.

Think of the coach as a perfectly flat block of wood sitting on a perfectly flat surface. All 4 corners should see and equal amount the block's
weight. Now slide 4 coins under the 4 corners of the block. The 4 corners should still see a equal amount of weight. Now add a 5th coin to any one
corner and you will end up with a increased weight the two diagonal corners of the block and a lowering weight to the other two diagonal corners.

We see if all the time when scaling a coach and adjusting ride heights. Many times we see this diagonal descrepency while weighing random coaches at
GMC rallies. This is why we measure every coach's ride height prior to putting them on the scales. By looking at the ride heights and the weights
together we can make recommendations to the owner on what to adjust in what order.

I know I did a poor job explaining this but here is what we do when adjusting ride heights.

We start with the rear wheels first. Make sure that the cold tire air pressure is correct for the weight the wheels are carrying. We adjust the rear
heights as close as possible. Then drive the the coach on flat roads for about 5 miles, recheck, and readjust as necessary. Sometimes we have to do
this up to 4 times to get it within spec while and after driving.

THIS STEP IS IMPORTANT. Next we block the rear frame in place using our pre-cut ride height measurement blocks. (a pair of 2x4s cut to correct frame
height.) Put the blocks vertically in place and drop the rear of the coach enough so the frame is applying a couple 100 pounds to the blocks and can
not move.

Now go do the fronts. Adjust front torsion bars for the approximate ride height and EQUAL weight (within 100 pounds) on the 2 front wheels. Once the
weight is equal, adjust the PAIR of torsion bars up and down the same amount of turns for the proper ride height.

That is it. REMOVE THE BLOCKS AND YOU ARE DONE.

Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[boybach]

Ok, thanks for the detailed run-through guys, looks like I did it correctly so no worries.

Cheers

Larry

--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS
exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses