Sputter, pop, choke, die

[nate chase]

Ok... now after all the work I have put into the "Sweat Lodge" and the day
before I want to taker on a vacation she decides to play hard to start. Now
in Omaha last Friday night we were fortunate to get 10" of rain. Yup... no
kiddin' 10". I went out to start her and it took me 2 hours of the above
(sputter, pop, etc, etc).

Acted just like it was wet when I washed the motor when I first got her. Had
to let it dry then for a few hours in the sunthe first time. Ok, so I washed
it (yupper with a power washer (portable car wash with 1500 PSI) and nope I
only washed the outside. She does look noce now all cleaned up and perty
ready for vacation. Yeah, right!

But... she will not stay running under LOW speeds. Thought I would taker
around the block. Took we 2 hours of start, sputter, pop, you know the
routine... to get back home! Geez...!!!

Well, before (last couple of months, I had replaced the rotor, cap, coil,
plugs, (8mm silicon wires were OK... no lightning dancing in the dark or
stray shocks). Worked GREAT! She does have fuel injection and the air
cleaner is right up front by the grill. Thought it was wet... unhooked it.
Same problem. Unhooked the air sensor in it and it wouldn't even start.
Hooked it back up... Sputter, etc, etc.

Unhooked the gas line... gas gushes out w/the switch on.... (electric fuel
pump seems ok). She seems to run longer as it warms up like Saturday
morning... but not this time. Any thoughts sure would be appreciated!

 

[nate chase]

You won't believe this... I got my sputter problem worked out. Found out it
was one, the air flow sensor in the air cleaner getting wet (fuel injection
remember) and two the backfiring cuased the air cleaner flex tube to the
throttle body to come off. Soon as it dried out and I reinstalled the tube I
was off like a prom dress!

Left Omaha for Fargo and got to Sioux City to gas up. So far so good running
about 225 degrees water and 45 psi oil and 180 degrees on the trans. Just
leaving Sioux City we hear a very loud POP back by the bathroom followed by
copious amounts of what looked like smoke right at the door. I instantly
pulled over shut down and told the kids to get out. Got the fire
extinguisher out but found that the smoke was simply steam and that one of
the lines to the water heater had blown. Bummer.

Called AAA and sat for an hour or so. Looked at the manual and thought I
don't really need the water heater lines and popped the hatch to check the
lines. Found the two lines and pulled one off at the TEE in the back
passenger side of the engine. Cut the other about a foot down the firewall
and ran it back to the tee to bypass the whole mess. My boys thought I was a
miracle worker and we shuttled water in pint jugs between the kitchen sink
and the radiator.... man does it take alot of pints to fill that sucker up!

Started it up and viola... no leaks! Tow truck pulled up about then and he
said well lets go up two exits to a truck stop and we'll check and see how
she's doing. OK, about a mile up suddenly the motor thuds and dies. I pull
over again. Try to start it and it sounds REALLY BAD for a sec or two
(knocking, grinding) then locks up tight as a drum. Now it won't turn over
and the starter can't even budget it.

Sounds like a lunched engine or ??? They got a semi sized tow truck and got
her up and towed back to Omaha to R&G Service Center. I described the
problem and they said "Sounds like a lunched engine..." well not in those
terms but the answer was the same. Said they would look at it and call me
w/an estimate. Said if it was the engine (and that they have done 4 in the
last year) that it would be about $9500 for a genuine GM motor in the crate
installed. That sounds outta line or is it me? Pulling the engine is way
outta my league since I have no tools for that size job (hoist, etc) and my
time is worth too much but $9500! Wonder if I would be better hauling it to
Jim Bounds or Cinnabar or Sirum or ????

Then there the original problem with the blown water lines but I'm sure I
can handle that one if I can fishe the lines up via clamping the new ones to
the old ones and use them as pulls.

Nate '75GB(dead) Omaha

 

[gary miller]

Nate --
What a bummer!!!! Be sure and check out a Mondello engine. $9500 seems like
the top of the price range. And my guess when you get your diagnosis back is a
timing chain problem. After 80k the OEM chains start to give problems. Best
wishes on your repairs!!
Gary
North Bend. Oregon Coast

> You won't believe this... I got my sputter problem worked out. Found out it
> was one, the air flow sensor in the air cleaner getting wet (fuel injection
> remember) and two the backfiring cuased the air cleaner flex tube to the
> throttle body to come off. Soon as it dried out and I reinstalled the tube I
> was off like a prom dress!
>
> Left Omaha for Fargo and got to Sioux City to gas up. So far so good running
> about 225 degrees water and 45 psi oil and 180 degrees on the trans. Just
> leaving Sioux City we hear a very loud POP back by the bathroom followed by
> copious amounts of what looked like smoke right at the door. I instantly
> pulled over shut down and told the kids to get out. Got the fire
> extinguisher out but found that the smoke was simply steam and that one of
> the lines to the water heater had blown. Bummer.
>
> Called AAA and sat for an hour or so. Looked at the manual and thought I
> don't really need the water heater lines and popped the hatch to check the
> lines. Found the two lines and pulled one off at the TEE in the back
> passenger side of the engine. Cut the other about a foot down the firewall
> and ran it back to the tee to bypass the whole mess. My boys thought I was a
> miracle worker and we shuttled water in pint jugs between the kitchen sink
> and the radiator.... man does it take alot of pints to fill that sucker up!
>
> Started it up and viola... no leaks! Tow truck pulled up about then and he
> said well lets go up two exits to a truck stop and we'll check and see how
> she's doing. OK, about a mile up suddenly the motor thuds and dies. I pull
> over again. Try to start it and it sounds REALLY BAD for a sec or two
> (knocking, grinding) then locks up tight as a drum. Now it won't turn over
> and the starter can't even budget it.
>
> Sounds like a lunched engine or ??? They got a semi sized tow truck and got
> her up and towed back to Omaha to R&G Service Center. I described the
> problem and they said "Sounds like a lunched engine..." well not in those
> terms but the answer was the same. Said they would look at it and call me
> w/an estimate. Said if it was the engine (and that they have done 4 in the
> last year) that it would be about $9500 for a genuine GM motor in the crate
> installed. That sounds outta line or is it me? Pulling the engine is way
> outta my league since I have no tools for that size job (hoist, etc) and my
> time is worth too much but $9500! Wonder if I would be better hauling it to
> Jim Bounds or Cinnabar or Sirum or ????
>
> Then there the original problem with the blown water lines but I'm sure I
> can handle that one if I can fishe the lines up via clamping the new ones to
> the old ones and use them as pulls.
>
> Nate '75GB(dead) Omaha

 

[john wright]

Call Winterfeldt in Longmont Co. 303-530-4995. This guy does GMC for a
Living and advertise rebuilt engine installed, labor tax for 6665.60.
We known within the GMC community. Has national wide towing available.

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
77 Eleganza
Michigan

>
> You won't believe this... I got my sputter problem worked out. Found out it
> was one, the air flow sensor in the air cleaner getting wet (fuel injection
> remember) and two the backfiring cuased the air cleaner flex tube to the
> throttle body to come off. Soon as it dried out and I reinstalled the tube I
> was off like a prom dress!
>
> Left Omaha for Fargo and got to Sioux City to gas up. So far so good running
> about 225 degrees water and 45 psi oil and 180 degrees on the trans. Just
> leaving Sioux City we hear a very loud POP back by the bathroom followed by
> copious amounts of what looked like smoke right at the door. I instantly
> pulled over shut down and told the kids to get out. Got the fire
> extinguisher out but found that the smoke was simply steam and that one of
> the lines to the water heater had blown. Bummer.
>
> Called AAA and sat for an hour or so. Looked at the manual and thought I
> don't really need the water heater lines and popped the hatch to check the
> lines. Found the two lines and pulled one off at the TEE in the back
> passenger side of the engine. Cut the other about a foot down the firewall
> and ran it back to the tee to bypass the whole mess. My boys thought I was a
> miracle worker and we shuttled water in pint jugs between the kitchen sink
> and the radiator.... man does it take alot of pints to fill that sucker up!
>
> Started it up and viola... no leaks! Tow truck pulled up about then and he
> said well lets go up two exits to a truck stop and we'll check and see how
> she's doing. OK, about a mile up suddenly the motor thuds and dies. I pull
> over again. Try to start it and it sounds REALLY BAD for a sec or two
> (knocking, grinding) then locks up tight as a drum. Now it won't turn over
> and the starter can't even budget it.
>
> Sounds like a lunched engine or ??? They got a semi sized tow truck and got
> her up and towed back to Omaha to R&G Service Center. I described the
> problem and they said "Sounds like a lunched engine..." well not in those
> terms but the answer was the same. Said they would look at it and call me
> w/an estimate. Said if it was the engine (and that they have done 4 in the
> last year) that it would be about $9500 for a genuine GM motor in the crate
> installed. That sounds outta line or is it me? Pulling the engine is way
> outta my league since I have no tools for that size job (hoist, etc) and my
> time is worth too much but $9500! Wonder if I would be better hauling it to
> Jim Bounds or Cinnabar or Sirum or ????
>
> Then there the original problem with the blown water lines but I'm sure I
> can handle that one if I can fishe the lines up via clamping the new ones to
> the old ones and use them as pulls.
>
> Nate '75GB(dead) Omaha

 

[nate chase]

Scott, Gary and all...

Thanks for the kind words... I hope it's not the engine as well but it sure
died fast. Chuck K. says at 225 deg. it was too hot and the hose was just an
after shock that the engine was toasted already.

If it was a timing chain wouldn't it bend a valve or two and keep turning
over though? Have been blessed and never have lunched a mill (till
ow... ). 8-(

Called Jim Bounds and Sirum and they will do the engine for $3500-4000 but
how to get it there is the BIG question. Welp, I figure I'll let the locals
have a few hours to find whats wrong and if it is simple then I'm fine. If
not it will ship the works to Jim.

I'm off to Fargo tomorrow morning (again) but this time w/o the "Sweat
Lodge".

Nate '75GB(dead still) Omaha

 

[heinz wittenbecher]

Nate,
I'm curious re the "GM crated engine". Are you sure they know they are
dealing with an Olds 455, or is yours the 403?

I'd love to get a new 455 in a crate.

Heinz

- -----Original Message-----
From: Nate Chase
To: GMC
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Sputter, pop, choke, die

>You won't believe this... I got my sputter problem worked out. Found out it
>was one, the air flow sensor in the air cleaner getting wet (fuel injection
>remember) and two the backfiring cuased the air cleaner flex tube to the
>throttle body to come off. Soon as it dried out and I reinstalled the tube
I
>was off like a prom dress!
>
>Left Omaha for Fargo and got to Sioux City to gas up. So far so good
running
>about 225 degrees water and 45 psi oil and 180 degrees on the trans. Just
>leaving Sioux City we hear a very loud POP back by the bathroom followed by
>copious amounts of what looked like smoke right at the door. I instantly
>pulled over shut down and told the kids to get out. Got the fire
>extinguisher out but found that the smoke was simply steam and that one of
>the lines to the water heater had blown. Bummer.
>
>Called AAA and sat for an hour or so. Looked at the manual and thought I
>don't really need the water heater lines and popped the hatch to check the
>lines. Found the two lines and pulled one off at the TEE in the back
>passenger side of the engine. Cut the other about a foot down the firewall
>and ran it back to the tee to bypass the whole mess. My boys thought I was
a
>miracle worker and we shuttled water in pint jugs between the kitchen sink
>and the radiator.... man does it take alot of pints to fill that sucker up!
>
>Started it up and viola... no leaks! Tow truck pulled up about then and he
>said well lets go up two exits to a truck stop and we'll check and see how
>she's doing. OK, about a mile up suddenly the motor thuds and dies. I pull
>over again. Try to start it and it sounds REALLY BAD for a sec or two
>(knocking, grinding) then locks up tight as a drum. Now it won't turn over
>and the starter can't even budget it.
>
>Sounds like a lunched engine or ??? They got a semi sized tow truck and got
>her up and towed back to Omaha to R&G Service Center. I described the
>problem and they said "Sounds like a lunched engine..." well not in those
>terms but the answer was the same. Said they would look at it and call me
>w/an estimate. Said if it was the engine (and that they have done 4 in the
>last year) that it would be about $9500 for a genuine GM motor in the crate
>installed. That sounds outta line or is it me? Pulling the engine is way
>outta my league since I have no tools for that size job (hoist, etc) and my
>time is worth too much but $9500! Wonder if I would be better hauling it to
>Jim Bounds or Cinnabar or Sirum or ????
>
>Then there the original problem with the blown water lines but I'm sure I
>can handle that one if I can fishe the lines up via clamping the new ones
to
>the old ones and use them as pulls.
>
>Nate '75GB(dead) Omaha
>

 

[heinz wittenbecher]

Nate,

Sorry to hear about your plight, but some of us have gone this road before
you , at least I have.

Many moons ago I popped a heaterhose in the middle of turnpike going through
Knoxville.

As I was a new owner and too stupid I didn't pull over right away as all
looked ok initially. When I pulled off the freeway at the first
intersection, it ceased or rather quit running. Steam all over the place.

Let it settle and filled the rad with water, like you a pint at a time.
After a while it started ok and I got it out of traffic. Still too stupid to
find the leak as it was buried. I added more water and carried on. About 50
miles later lots of white smoke out the exhaust. Long story short, I nursed
it to a few places for possible repair in the next (small) town, adding
water several times. Eventually ended up at an Esso and they pulled both
heads (I think it was both) and had them redone.

Engine lasted another 50k+ and I vowed to learn more about my new toy.

In retrospect.... and with my 2 cents of nothing, get your temp down. 225 is
too high
unless you're going up a long hill and it's only for a reasonable length of
time.

Again, going back... I had problems of engine heating up going up long
hills, etc. Electric fans didn't help. What eventually did it was a rad
overhaul.

As I said, just my 2 cents worth. Hopefully you'll be at least as lucky as I
was, hopefully luckier [g].

All the best

Heinz

 

[dave1]

>If you ruined the engine it was from another cause -- not 225 degrees of
>water temperature.

One possible cause is putting cold water into an overheated engine. Its
very important to let it cool down thoroughly before adding water.

I learned this little trick the hard way. Fortunately it was a 350 V8 in a
Chevy Van and not my beloved GMC. My ex did the same thing to her Chevy
Caviler and she cracked the head. Never add water to an overheated engine.
The thermal shock can crack the heads and/or the block. Not fun. If there
is still some coolant in the system (and you can see it circulate when the
engine is running) then slowly add new coolant while the engine is running.
If it boiled dry, let it cool completely before adding any more coolant. Be
patient because it takes a really long time to cool.

Dave
73 Sequoia

 

[nate chase]

Heinz,
I just got back from Fargo... What a Blast (Fireworks convention, sorry
for the pun)!!!!
I'll be anxious to hear myself what the verdict is beginning of the week on
the engine. I'll let everyone know.

Nate '75GB Omaha

 

[richard waters]

Emery,

Sorry about your recent bad luck. Your stories make me wonder about
my GMC.

The "Sputter, pop, choke, die" thread brings to mind a question I had
during my recent trip to Missouri and Kansas. During 100+ outside air
temps I noticed my coolant temperature started to approach 220 degrees
during relatively high speed driving (65-70MPH). I slowed her down
(55MPH) and the temp lowered to around 200. The temps sure seem to
be sensitive to speed.

What would the red line be for the 455? The oil temp also was
approaching 250 with the trans near 190 (as measured in the oil pan).
Normal temps seem to be 190 for the coolant, about 160 for the trans
and 220 for the oil.

Also I never heard the fan engage. I wonder if the fan clutch
went South a long time ago? I've never heard a fan clutch engage before
so I probably wouldn't recognize it if I heard it.

Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI

> Nate -- if all the engine reached was 225 degrees that could not "toast" the
> engine. The reason that a 50% antifreeze 50% water and a pressure cap is
> recommended is to allow the coolant to get well over 225 deg. before it boils
> over.
>
> If you ruined the engine it was from another cause -- not 225 degrees of
> water temperature.
>

 

[nate chase]

Say I want to send my dead "Sweat Lodge" down to Jim Bounds for a complete
overhaul. Anyone know of a good, "read that low cost", reliable way to get
it there???? I would sleep better at night knowing my coach was with Jim
than some other deal. Geez, sounds like I'm sending my wife, huh? Appreciate
all the support you guys have given to date.

Nate '75GB Omaha