S10 Serpentine Belt setup

tmsnyder

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2014
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Buffalo NY
I found this interesting, I don't recall it being discussed:


"This kit allows you to convert your Big Block Oldsmobile motor to a GM Serpentine setup from most 4.3l/5.7l motors from 1990-1995.

With this serpentine adapter kit, you can convert your current V-Belt setup to Serpentine for between $500.00 – $600.00 instead of the $1,500+ other kits retail for.

Includes the following:

  • 1 Left Bracket
  • 1 Right Bracket
  • 1 Lower Angle
  • 1 Fuel Pump Block Off
  • 1 Pulley Adapter
  • All required hardware for installation
Please read this guide before purchasing! https://pacificgbody.co/blogs/shop/oldsmobile-serpentine-conversion"
 
Interesting!
The only thing that could be an issue would be the reverse rotation waterpump.
But definitely an option.
 
The tension pulley also looked to be on the powered side by the A/C pump. With the A/C ON, it may pull off tension on the belt and allow slippage. That's likely the reason for the second pulley on the opposite side of the A/C to provide more pulley wrap.
 
I'm going to swallow my pride and ask a question that exposes my ignorance. I have seen lots of serpentine belt discussions lately, and I don't understand the advantage of having *everything* fail when a single belt fails. Isn't it advantageous to keep individual components on their owns belts so they continue to function when a separate belt (and component) fails?
 
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I'm going to swallow my pride and ask a question that exposes my ignorance. I have seen lots of serpentine belt discussions lately, and I don't understand the advantage of having *everything* fail when a single belt fails. Isn't it advantageous to keep individual components on their owns belts so they continue to function when a separate belt (and component) fails?
I don't think that's an ignorant question at all--it's fair to ask. You're right, it seems counter-intuitive to put all your eggs in one basket. And it's true, you lose that one belt and you lose everything. But, there are some disadvantages to V-belts.

Serpentine belts are far less prone to slippage. They have a lot more surface area in contact with the pulley. With V-belts, all belt routing must be convex (for the most part). This puts a limit on how much "wrap-around" you can get on an individual pulley. So, to overcome this, you must add tension. To get enough grip with a modest amount of tension, they came up with the V-groove. This jams the belt between two angled surfaces. This nets you more normal force and more frictional force with a given amount of belt tension. But, it also makes the system very sensitive to belt stretch. It's all in the geometry, but basically any little increase in belt length makes you give up a decent amount of available frictional force.

This sensitivity to proper adjustment makes V-belts prone to failure. If they stretch even the slightest amount, they slip often, wear faster, get even more out of adjustment, and fail. Serpentine belts have been proven to be far more reliable in the long run.

With the need to stay convex, you end up needing multiple belts for the various systems. Each belt must have its own plane to operate in, and the stack-up of these planes takes up space. Not to mention, needing to change only the rear-most belt always warrants a heavy sigh from the guy with the wrenches.

Another consideration is accessory mounting. With a serpentine, every single accessory gets a nice, simple, solid mounting. I like this. The brackets are simpler and easier to deal with. With V-belts, each accessory gets a weird bracket, weird bolts and arrangements, or odd solutions for adjustability. Serpentines also simplify the tensioning, as one tensioner should do the job for the whole system. You never have to adjust, check, or tend to the tension of the system as long as the tensioner is functioning.

Also, I don't mind losing everything at once. If the water pump loses its belt, I like the fact that I'll lose steering and alternator at the same time. That makes belt failure more obvious, and I'm therefore less likely to overheat my engine. My one exception to this line of thinking is when you have hydroboost brakes that operate off the power steering pump. I'm not a fan of having that fail unexpectedly. Losing steering and brakes at the same time in a large vehicle really stinks. Been there and done that.
 
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Scott,
The charm of a serpentine belt is the fact that it has a tensioner and does not need retendioning in normal service. In a passcar, this it fine. I still tell people with new cars that they plan to keep (not a lease that they will turn over in a couple of years) to take a picture of the marking on the new belt and at about 10~12 years, buy a replacement and put it on. Because, the number of wrong belts out there far exceeds the number of correct belts.

I will also guess that you have not been following GMCnet. There have been a number of people that converted BBOld to serpentine, but remarkably fewer that were what I would call successful installations.

One that comes to mind is a friend that bought a couch 1500 miles away. It had a serpentine conversion that did not make it back to Michigan. Fortunately, he found a Black's list friend to put it back to stock enough to drive it home.

Matt
 
While this is a whole lot more than just a belt system. I does make use of a standard rotation waterpump.....not to mention fairly generic A/C compressors and power steering pump.
 
I don't think that's an ignorant question at all--it's fair to ask. You're right, it seems counter-intuitive to put all your eggs in one basket. And it's true, you lose that one belt and you lose everything. But, there are some disadvantages to V-belts...
Thanks so much for taking the time to lay all that out. I appreciate it.
 
While I like the idea of serpentine belt systems, I can tell you that it is easier to change the belts on my 455 GMC than it is to change serpentine belt on my Colorado. If you want to upgrade the v belt system, here is what I did.

I changed the alternator pulley to a double belt one. It is loosen and remove one nut and swap the pulley. Mine cost around $10 fifteen years ago. I replaced all 3 belts with 1/2" wide ones. I put a matched set of belts on the altenator, water pump, power steering route, and a single belt on the A/C and you are done.

I did break a belt one night on a 4 lane each direction Interstate. I simply pulled over, popped the hatch and removed the broken belt. I closed it up, and continued on for another 120 miles where I and stayed for the night. The next morning, when the engine was cold, I replaced both belts in the daylight and continued on my way home. 1/2" belts are cheaply available from V-Belt Supply on line.

I originally went to the double pulley when I installed the 100 amp alternator. With two belts you double the belt contact surface on the pulley and the alternator does not have to be as tight. The ability to drive with one belt missing was an extra benefit.
 
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Matt, I will check at GMCnet and see what systems they were trying. Not only am I working on the manifold and timing chain, the A/C does not work and need a 100-120amp alternator, so I can upgrade the compressor and alternator with this setup and get replacement parts at the Men's Mall. Looks like I might be another guinea pig, lol.

One step at a time:)
 
Scott,

The sheave on the alternator can be replaced and shimmed to align correctly, but the largest alternator that fits a 455 is a 100amp Delco 27SI. There are larger 27SI (watch out for those) but they are a larger frame. If you go to a 100amp 27SI, I would suggest that you also go to dual belt. 100Amp is the upper limit of a single belt. Even an 80amp 27SI can actually run up to 96 amps and smoke the belt. Just be sure to let us know what you did and if you tried something that didn't work, that is an important data point too.

Matt
 
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Scott,

The sheave on the alternator can be replaced and shimmed to align correctly, but the largest alternator that fits a 455 is a 100amp Delco 27SI.
Somebody on a Facebook thread discussing all-solar rigs was claiming to have a 200amp alternator. Was that a bunch of hoo-ha, or have they just installed an "inappropriate" alternator?
 
While I like the idea of serpentine belt systems, I can tell you that it is easier to change the belts on my 455 GMC than it is to change serpentine belt on my Colorado.
Right... I keep thinking about how difficult it is to change the timing belt on my diesel Jeep verses the prospect of individual belts on the GMC.
 
Kid,
First off, it was on Facebook. Then, if you can find him again, ask what the part number is of a 200 Amp alternator that fits in there.
Second, Timing belts are a WHOLE other issue. You sound like you have done it, so I won't add more.
Matt
 
The CVF system looks great, but to replace the water pump requires the removal of the whole system. Including alternator, A/C compressor and P/S pump. That maybe OK for your classic car that you only drive around locally. Maybe not so great for a motorhome that you drive hundreds or thousands of miles from home and into the middle of nowhere.
 
Resurrecting this thread, this guy has a really nice video series rebuilding an Olds 455, and now he's putting a S10 serpentine belt system on the 455. He's doing beautiful work in his garage.


Lots of great info on his youtube channel.
 
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From the adaptor plates, that looks like a kit (and men's mall parts) from here:

My first set of belts lasted 10 years, then a several years ago I though I should change them as part of routine maintenance. I could not find proper V-Belts here in Canada, so I went with Industrial/Implement belts. They are a bit wider as KenB mentioned above, but they have 3 years under their belt (pun intended) and are working fine. Still snug, no squeal, and look fine.

Here is some belt info gleaned from several GMC sites. I have this info posted in the Resources section.
 
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I didn't see it mentioned, but a couple more advantages to a serpentine belt system...

Constant tension within the tensioners adjustment range, and you don't need to set it.

Belt life, a serpentine belt will last 100k, v belts typically average 30k and are subject to other factors previously mentioned that can alter their life.
 
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