Riddle me this one.....inverter????

[6cuda6]

So the wife and I decide to venture out for a 3 day tour at a reasonably close Provincial Park.....kinda a shake down with the dogs, RV etc.

So today, day 2 (one night) i notice the roof fan slowing down....so i check the battery monitor on the panel and it doesnt move when i test the
batteries....oh ow.....i know that they were in the green before we left.

Now the question.....the inverter, is it not supposed to charge the batteries as well?? We were plugged into a 30A service...

Piculierly the fridge wasnt working quite right (worked fine on our inicial trip home) and when we ran the roof A/C it kicked the main breaker on the
house side.....

So is the inverter not working right or am i barking up the wrong tree with this? (A/C is not a big deal at this point really)

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[6cuda6]

Or maybe i should say buzz box? The inverter changes the current from 120v AC to 12v DC.....sorry.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[d c *mac* macdonald]

In the RV and boating worlds, the word "inverter" is used to designate the device that "inverts" the low 12/13 Volts DC of the battery UP to 120 Volts AC. For some reason unknown to me, the word "converter" is used for the device that "converts" the 120 Volt AC power line supply DOWN to 12/13 Volts DC. I simply call the latter device the DC power supply.

D C "Mac" Macdonald​
Amateur Radio K2GKK​
Since 30 November '53​
USAF and FAA, Retired​
Member GMCMI & Classics​
Oklahoma City, OK​
"The Money Pit"​
TZE166V101966

 

[Rob]

The "buzz box" is a convertor, which creates 12VDC from an 120VAC source (that is - charges your batteries when on shore power or running a generator).

An "inverter" converts 12VDC to 120VAC and lets you run AC devices when running on batteries (aka dry camping or boon docking). Most inverters are pretty lossy - not very efficient. I rarely use an inverter - although I do carry two (one small and one slightly larger) and only use them when I really need AC when dry camping. Virtually everything in my GMC runs on 12VDC.

If I have shore power available - I'll run the fridge/heater/water heater on AC. When dry camping - those items all run on propane.

I have two TRUE deep cycle 12V batteries that I can switch between (one size 24 and one 27). We were just dry camping for 5 days on a single battery - I never needed to switch to the second one.

If you were plugged into 30A shore power - you should have been charging the batteries (using the buzz box/convertor). You shouldn't have needed to use the inverter (since you had AC from the shore power).

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

>
> Or maybe i should say buzz box? The inverter changes the current from 120v AC to 12v DC.....sorry.
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600

 

[john r. lebetski]

Inverters take flat DC and invert wave polarity 60 times per second.
Do you own a decent volt Ohm meter? You should so your issue can be diagnosed in short order.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[john r. lebetski]

Sounds like your converter is not outputing. Check AC supply and look for AC or DC fuses open. If you have a meter.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[6cuda6]

> Inverters take flat DC and invert wave polarity 60 times per second.
> Do you own a decent volt Ohm meter? You should so your issue can be diagnosed in short order.

I do Sir and actually know how to use it....just wanted to confirm my suspissions but will fallow up with the meter.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[6cuda6]

> Sounds like your converter is not outputing. Check AC supply and look for AC or DC fuses open. If you have a meter.

Can a converter put out some power but not its full potential?

Sorry im use to working with dual power inverters that convert 900vdc to AC or A/c to DC and DC to DC converters that do 900vdc to 12/24bdc....when
something goes wrong in my world it usually involves big sparks, bangs and smoke.b

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[6cuda6]

> The "buzz box" is a convertor, which creates 12VDC from an 120VAC source (that is - charges your batteries when on shore power or running a
> generator).
>
> An "inverter" converts 12VDC to 120VAC and lets you run AC devices when running on batteries (aka dry camping or boon docking). Most inverters are
> pretty lossy - not very efficient. I rarely use an inverter - although I do carry two (one small and one slightly larger) and only use them when I
> really need AC when dry camping. Virtually everything in my GMC runs on 12VDC.
>
> If I have shore power available - I'll run the fridge/heater/water heater on AC. When dry camping - those items all run on propane.
>
> I have two TRUE deep cycle 12V batteries that I can switch between (one size 24 and one 27). We were just dry camping for 5 days on a single
> battery - I never needed to switch to the second one.
>
> If you were plugged into 30A shore power - you should have been charging the batteries (using the buzz box/convertor). You shouldn't have needed
> to use the inverter (since you had AC from the shore power).
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>

> >
> > Or maybe i should say buzz box? The inverter changes the current from 120v AC to 12v DC.....sorry.
> > --
> > Rich Mondor,
> >
> > Brockville, ON
> >
> > 77 Hughes 2600
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

Thanks Rob....thats what i figured.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[RF_Burns]

I keep reading statements that "Inverters are inefficient"... I'm not sure where that is coming from. Most inverters run 85% plus in efficiency which
is pretty high. We would all be VERY HAPPY if we could get an engine with 85% efficiency instead of about 30%.

I believe it comes from the low capacity capabilities of lead acid batteries. 100ampHr of battery capacity is really not that much compared to a
gallon of gas or propane. A gallon of gasoline has the energy of about 1000 pounds of lead acid batteries.
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

 

[6cuda6]

So lets assume it is the converter that is faulty....when i look at the power distribution area in my Hughes coach....i have a box on the left with
big house type circuit breakers which i assume is the converter. Beside it i have another boxish type thing with 12v glass automotive type fuses which
is a power distribution box perhaps????.

The converters i see on line are just that....a box with 2 wire connectors in ( 4 if it 50A +) and 2 wire connectors out...what a i not seeing here?

Boy i wish i had schematics for this thing...it is just so different than the GM schematics i have.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

 

[d c *mac* macdonald]

The box with the "house"'type breakers is the distribution system for everything that is 120 Volt AC. The glass tubular fuses distribute the 12/13 Volt DC and is fed from the batteries of the "house" system which are fed either by the converter or the vehicle alternator
though the isolator.

Mac in OK
Sent from my iPhone

So lets assume it is the converter that is faulty....when i look at the power distribution area in my Hughes coach....i have a box on the left with
big house type circuit breakers which i assume is the converter. Beside it i have another boxish type thing with 12v glass automotive type fuses which
is a power distribution box perhaps????.

The converters i see on line are just that....a box with 2 wire connectors in ( 4 if it 50A +) and 2 wire connectors out...what a i not seeing here?

Boy i wish i had schematics for this thing...it is just so different than the GM schematics i have.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

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[RF_Burns]

From your description, I would say the box on the left is your 120V circuit breaker panel. The box on the right is 12 volt fuses & distribution and
may have the converter in it if it is large enough. Usually the converter is a box unto itself with 120VAC input and 12VDC out.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

 

[Rob]

In my case (lots of dry camping) - 85% isn’t efficient enough, regardless of the comparisons...

If I’m using DC power to create AC power to run things I can run on DC power - all I’m doing is losing 15%...

I really doubt either of my “cheap” inverters are anywhere near 85% efficient... They’re just for emergencies. Including last week’s Hornby Island trip - I lent my small inverter to a friend to charge their electric toothbrush (I made them charge it from their own car!)...

My Onan is not happy this season - so power was a limited commodity on that little island. If I wanted to convert gasoline to DC power - it required a 455 CID converter...

Having said that - I’m pretty sure my power would have lasted longer than my water and waste tanks.

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

>
> I keep reading statements that "Inverters are inefficient"... I'm not sure where that is coming from. Most inverters run 85% plus in efficiency which
> is pretty high. We would all be VERY HAPPY if we could get an engine with 85% efficiency instead of about 30%.
>
> I believe it comes from the low capacity capabilities of lead acid batteries. 100ampHr of battery capacity is really not that much compared to a
> gallon of gas or propane. A gallon of gasoline has the energy of about 1000 pounds of lead acid batteries.
> --
> Bruce Hislop
> ON Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

 

[Carl Stouffer]

> In my case (lots of dry camping) - 85% isn't efficient enough, regardless of the comparisons...
>
> If I'm using DC power to create AC power to run things I can run on DC power - all I'm doing is losing 15%...
>
> I really doubt either of my "cheap" inverters are anywhere near 85% efficient... They're just for emergencies. Including last week's Hornby Island
> trip - I lent my small inverter to a friend to charge their electric toothbrush (I made them charge it from their own car!)...
>
> My Onan is not happy this season - so power was a limited commodity on that little island. If I wanted to convert gasoline to DC power - it
> required a 455 CID converter...
>
> Having said that - I'm pretty sure my power would have lasted longer than my water and waste tanks.
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

Rob, it sounds like you need to add a solar system. Even a small one like mine keeps my batteries charged during dry camping trips

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html

--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

 

[Rob]

I've considered solar - but I'm quite often in the trees and usually north
of the 49th parallel. With my two batteries - I can go over a week and we
rarely sit for that long. But a small solar system might be handy.

I'm pretty sure I've found the issue with my Onan - so once I've got it
running properly again, I can easily outlast my tanks!

Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:06 PM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <

> Rob, it sounds like you need to add a solar system. Even a small one like
> mine keeps my batteries charged during dry camping trips
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html
>
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>

 

[Vern and Lenore]

Don’t underestimate the potential of solar on a GMC Motorhome:

We have not plugged into shore power for some 30,000 miles, and almost two
full years since completing the solar system on our ‘77 Palm Beach. We
power all 12 vdc and 120 vac systems (including fans, lights, 27” iMac
desktop, laptop, variety of other electronic gadgets, electric appliances
such as our Norcold compressor fridge, microwave, coffee pot, toaster,
etc.) with our self-installed 960 watt of solar collection. All of that
energy is stored in a 500 amp hour LiFePo4 lithium battery bank weighing
just 155 pounds.

Twice a year we boon-dock at almost month long events where generators are
simply not allowed, one in Texas and one in Oregon. Lots of cloudy days
in there, and trees too!

At the GMCMI conference in Tallahassee this past Spring we passed on our
old Onan 6000 to a fellow GMCer, lightening our GVW by several pounds.

Nope, we don’t use the air-conditioner with this system, that’s why we have
wheels on our coach to seek out more moderate climates.

Hugs,
Vern, Lenore, and Knibbles D. Kat

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:22 PM GMC Motorhome via Gmclist <

> I've considered solar - but I'm quite often in the trees and usually north
> of the 49th parallel. With my two batteries - I can go over a week and we
> rarely sit for that long. But a small solar system might be handy.
>
> I'm pretty sure I've found the issue with my Onan - so once I've got it
> running properly again, I can easily outlast my tanks!
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:06 PM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <

>
> > Rob, it sounds like you need to add a solar system. Even a small one
> like
> > mine keeps my batteries charged during dry camping trips
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html
> >
> > --
> > Carl Stouffer
> > '75 ex Palm Beach
> > Tucson, AZ.
> > Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> > Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> > Eagles,
> > Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Vern Crawford (and Lenore Langsdorf)
155 JJ Lane
Center Point, TX 78010
(618) 203-8296 Vern's cell
(830) 928-5550 Lenore's cell
VernCrawford
LenoreLangsdorf