North to Alaska with new S&J engine

Drdonaldg

New member
Jun 30, 2013
37
2
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I had my 455 re manufacturied by S&J engines in Spokane a couple of months ago. I had roller lifters, roller cam and roller rockers installed along
with oil restrictors. I had S&J install the intake manifold and all sheet metal. I figured this was the safest way to insure a good running engine
without any leaks. Manny Trovao started the engine as prescribed by S&J, ran for 20 minutes at 2000 rpm. After 700 miles I changed the Joe Gibbs break
in oil to Mobile 1 15-50 and left for Alaska. On the way to the Cascaders Covered Bridges rally I used one quart of oil every 140 miles! There was no
smoke from the exhaust, plugs were not fouled and there was not any apparent oil from the rocker cover vents. The technician at S&J thought that it
might be an intake manifold leak and suggested that the manifold be resealed. I convinced Jim Hupy to reseal the intake manifold after the Covered
Bridges rally. I spent three days at Jim and Judy's house carefully removing cleaning and resealing the manifold. Used new Dick Patterson gaskets and
block off plates. This surely would solve the oil consumption problem. I continued north to Alaska and after another thousand mile it was still using
1 quart of oil every 140 miles, no improvement. S&J suggested changing to conventional oil so I changed oil and filter to Shell Rotella 15-40 in
Dawson Creek. Since then I have driven 2000 miles and have used two gallons of oil. An improvement from 1 quart/ 140 mi to 1 quart / 250 miles. I now
have about 4500 miles on the engine and oil consumption remains constant at 1 quart/ 250 miles so. I just add oil and check the gas!
--
1977 Palm Beach
TZE167V100274
 
Think I'd run a compression check when I got back Mr D.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
 
Hal, I looked into that when he was here. Oil is definitely going
somewhere. The Paterson block offs and thin gaskets were poorly positioned
and I fixed that. It is not leaking out of the ends of the China walls. No
visible smoke out the tailpipe. No filter or oil line or cooler leaks.
Engine hits evenly on all cylinders. Roller cam and roller rockers,
mondello oil restrictors. I don't know what valve springs and retainers or
oil seals were used on the valves. That is what I suspect. Large clearances
between stems and guides accompanied by poor oil seals. Engine burned the
tires going out of my driveway, and has very good power, so I don't suspect
pistons and rings. Runs quiet.
Jim Hupy

Think I'd run a compression check when I got back Mr D.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout

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It may just be because this is a forum and nothing good ever gets posted, only trouble, but I for one will not be getting a rebuilt engine or
transmission until it is absolutely necessary.
Almost every thread I see where there is a problem it's "my engine's been rebuilt and it just fried again" or "new trans last year, stuck on the side
of the road with a toasted transmission"

--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
I have installed a number of rebuilt engines over the years. Some of them
were ones that I rebuilt, some were S and J, and other competent
rebuilders. Most of them are still in service, doing what they are supposed
to do. We probably don't hear about the ones that don't cause any trouble
very often. My original 403 in my 78 Royale is approaching 140,000 miles on
the clock, and has never been open. I replaced the original transmission in
2012. It worked well up till it didn't. My current Manny tranny has a trip
across Canada and back to Oregon, and a trip to Detroit and back via Route
66, and several trips to California and back. Seems to be doing well.
If your current engine uses less than a quart of oil per 500 miles, that is
pretty normal for engines that work as hard as these do. If it hits on all
cylinders, maintains antifreeze levels, drive it until it doesn't. Don't
fix what ain't broke.
Jim Hupy

> It may just be because this is a forum and nothing good ever gets posted,
> only trouble, but I for one will not be getting a rebuilt engine or
> transmission until it is absolutely necessary.
> Almost every thread I see where there is a problem it's "my engine's been
> rebuilt and it just fried again" or "new trans last year, stuck on the side
> of the road with a toasted transmission"
>
> --
> Justin Brady
> http://www.thegmcrv.com/
> 1976 Palm Beach 455
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
 
I wonder if that top quart is one quart more than the engine wants. Have
you just let the first quart go to see how long it takes to lose the second
quart?

I know that it was a common experience that the sixth quart added left
quickly, but there is still some dispute about whether to add it anyway.

My own experience has been that five quarts (in addition to what is in the
various reservoirs in the system) would not go down nearly at the pace of
that sixth quart.

Rick "JWID" Denney

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:30 AM Donald W. Guttman
wrote:

> I had my 455 re manufacturied by S&J engines in Spokane a couple of months
> ago. I had roller lifters, roller cam and roller rockers installed along
> with oil restrictors. I had S&J install the intake manifold and all
> sheet metal. I figured this was the safest way to insure a good running
> engine
> without any leaks. Manny Trovao started the engine as prescribed by S&J,
> ran for 20 minutes at 2000 rpm. After 700 miles I changed the Joe Gibbs
> break
> in oil to Mobile 1 15-50 and left for Alaska. On the way to the Cascaders
> Covered Bridges rally I used one quart of oil every 140 miles! There was no
> smoke from the exhaust, plugs were not fouled and there was not any
> apparent oil from the rocker cover vents. The technician at S&J thought
> that it
> might be an intake manifold leak and suggested that the manifold be
> resealed. I convinced Jim Hupy to reseal the intake manifold after the
> Covered
> Bridges rally. I spent three days at Jim and Judy's house carefully
> removing cleaning and resealing the manifold. Used new Dick Patterson
> gaskets and
> block off plates. This surely would solve the oil consumption problem. I
> continued north to Alaska and after another thousand mile it was still using
> 1 quart of oil every 140 miles, no improvement. S&J suggested changing to
> conventional oil so I changed oil and filter to Shell Rotella 15-40 in
> Dawson Creek. Since then I have driven 2000 miles and have used two
> gallons of oil. An improvement from 1 quart/ 140 mi to 1 quart / 250 miles.
> I now
> have about 4500 miles on the engine and oil consumption remains constant
> at 1 quart/ 250 miles so. I just add oil and check the gas!
> --
> 1977 Palm Beach
> TZE167V100274
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Justin,
I hear what you're saying. We read many posts about rebuilt engines with problems, or rebuilt transmissions failing. I too do not plan on an engine or
transmission swap until it is needed. However, that is what this forum is all about, helping people with problems. Although, I too would like to see
some "good" reports posted as well, for encouragement for those of use who are fairly new to the GMC lifestyle. I'd like to see reports like; "50,000
miles on an engine rebuild without major issues...", or "successful 3000 mile trip through the mountains...", "Alaska and back with only a few less
spare parts on board..."

I am looking forward to seeing the rest of your build Justin. Hopefully in person at a rally one day soon.

Safe Travels and keep your chin up,
Russell
--
Russell Keith,
1978 Eleganza II "Harry" 403, Danny Dunn Tranny (w/shift kit, 3.50 sprockets, Allison), Thorley, Stock Brakes w/Remote Vacuum Brake Booster, Mico
Electric Actuated brake lock, Dakota Digital Dash, 6.5kW Onan,
Dunedin, Florida
 
Rick, we verified the fill quantity and the dipstick markings. Tried
driving it a qt. low. No difference. When it comes back from Alaska, if he
stops here, we will do cylinder balance and scope the cylinders. I suspect
valve seals, because it has a bunch of hot rod parts up there.
Jim Hupy

> I wonder if that top quart is one quart more than the engine wants. Have
> you just let the first quart go to see how long it takes to lose the second
> quart?
>
> I know that it was a common experience that the sixth quart added left
> quickly, but there is still some dispute about whether to add it anyway.
>
> My own experience has been that five quarts (in addition to what is in the
> various reservoirs in the system) would not go down nearly at the pace of
> that sixth quart.
>
> Rick "JWID" Denney
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:30 AM Donald W. Guttman

>
> > I had my 455 re manufacturied by S&J engines in Spokane a couple of
> months
> > ago. I had roller lifters, roller cam and roller rockers installed along
> > with oil restrictors. I had S&J install the intake manifold and all
> > sheet metal. I figured this was the safest way to insure a good running
> > engine
> > without any leaks. Manny Trovao started the engine as prescribed by S&J,
> > ran for 20 minutes at 2000 rpm. After 700 miles I changed the Joe Gibbs
> > break
> > in oil to Mobile 1 15-50 and left for Alaska. On the way to the Cascaders
> > Covered Bridges rally I used one quart of oil every 140 miles! There
> was no
> > smoke from the exhaust, plugs were not fouled and there was not any
> > apparent oil from the rocker cover vents. The technician at S&J thought
> > that it
> > might be an intake manifold leak and suggested that the manifold be
> > resealed. I convinced Jim Hupy to reseal the intake manifold after the
> > Covered
> > Bridges rally. I spent three days at Jim and Judy's house carefully
> > removing cleaning and resealing the manifold. Used new Dick Patterson
> > gaskets and
> > block off plates. This surely would solve the oil consumption problem. I
> > continued north to Alaska and after another thousand mile it was still
> using
> > 1 quart of oil every 140 miles, no improvement. S&J suggested changing to
> > conventional oil so I changed oil and filter to Shell Rotella 15-40 in
> > Dawson Creek. Since then I have driven 2000 miles and have used two
> > gallons of oil. An improvement from 1 quart/ 140 mi to 1 quart / 250
> miles.
> > I now
> > have about 4500 miles on the engine and oil consumption remains constant
> > at 1 quart/ 250 miles so. I just add oil and check the gas!
> > --
> > 1977 Palm Beach
> > TZE167V100274
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
 
Didn't know you had been looking for an issue Jim. Might be something as simple as non stock valve covers with the incorrect baffles? PCV valve issue?
Your seals' guess is probably a good one, good place to start.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
 
Did you specify Chrome rings? I had a hard time seating my chrome rings...my consumption was high, with no visible smoke for first 3500+ miles, it
still uses oil, but far less than it did 2000 miles ago. Lastly , confirm you have the right PCV valve and baffled valve covers.
--
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.

Colonial Travelers
 
It has the correct valve covers and pcv valve, hoses, air cleaner, and no
sign of oil in those parts. I looked very carefully at this. It was my
first suspicion. Ruled it out.
Jim Hupy

> Did you specify Chrome rings? I had a hard time seating my chrome
> rings...my consumption was high, with no visible smoke for first 3500+
> miles, it
> still uses oil, but far less than it did 2000 miles ago. Lastly , confirm
> you have the right PCV valve and baffled valve covers.
> --
> Sean and Stephanie
> 73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
> Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD
> Honda 6500 inverter gen.
>
> Colonial Travelers
>
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> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
 
I just had my engine rebuilt by Total Precision Engines of Ft Collins, CO.

At my request he installed the Comp Cams Magnum Roller Rocket Arms kit 249-1442.

I used break in oil for 100 miles and dumped it and at the builders suggestion filled with Brad Penn 10w30.
I drove to Shawnee OK and back for a total of 1750 miles including a side trip to Santa Fe NM. We pulled the Geo Tracker and went up steep grades on I40 entering NM and up Raton Pass from NM into Colorado. Very strong engine.

I kept checking my oil level and was surprised to find that I was not burning any oil. So I have driven 1750 miles without adding any oil.
With past engines I usually burned a quart every 500 miles.

I wonder if your oil burning problem is related to your passenger side valve cover. If you don't have the original it might not have the right baffle inside below the PCV valve. You might also have a faulty PCV valve. Try changing it and see if that makes any difference.

If you are using that much oil without any evidence of external leakage it must be getting into the intake manifold somehow and being burned and out the exhaust. Your spark plugs should show oil. Check them.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> Did you specify Chrome rings? I had a hard time seating my chrome rings...my consumption was high, with no visible smoke for first 3500+ miles, it
> still uses oil, but far less than it did 2000 miles ago. Lastly , confirm you have the right PCV valve and baffled valve covers.
> --
> Sean and Stephanie
> 73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
> Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
>
> Colonial Travelers
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org