Dave,
After putting over 120,000 miles on my first GMC (a 77 Kingsley), I
bought a 78 GMC Eleganza II last August in Naples, FL. with 52,000
miles. My biggest expenses on my first GMC was the 2 brake jobs, 1
airbag and 2 sets of tires (other than $1,000s in gas!). I spent far
more in insurance than I did on maintenance.
But I, like Bob, and probably most others, spend a lot of money on my
78 GMC when I first bought it. It seems that when they are for sale
they are usually in need of lots of TLC (probably why they are for
sale). It's usually because the last owner lost interest.
RE: Things to consider (or ignore)
I have attached a text form I used to evaluate the GMCs I was looking
at.
First and foremost, Paul Bartz is 150% correct, look at as many GMCs
as you can. At least 5 to 10. I researched over 40 and actually looked
hard at over 10 of those. There were many improvements over those
short 6 years. You may find you like some of the newer features of the
77 and 78. The 73 was the first year and is lacking many features and
polish if it is original. For one, the cabinetry and furniture greatly
improved in subsequent years. Personally I limited my search last year
to 76-78 but then that was my preference. Many like the older ones
better.
On a GMC 51,000 miles probably means 151,000 or 251,000 miles. Dave
Greenberg odometer says 80,000 miles but it has 580,000 miles although
it sure does not look it. Unless you have a complete history and
maintenance trail it probably has more miles. That's not necessarily
bad, but I was always wary of a coach whose owner who first misled me
on the milage. What's next.
Since you say your money is limited - DON'T spend all your budget on
the coach purchase. Save at least 1/3 to 1/2 for fixing it up. If you
can't afford a GMC on 2/3 of your budget I would wait and learn a
whole lot more first. No matter which one you buy you will probably
end up with $15,000 to $25,000 minimum in a mechanically reliable
coach. The cosmetics are the difference between 15 and 25. Obviously
you can also spend a GREAT deal more. Many have $35000 to $90000 in
their coaches. But when you consider a low end Winebago new is $47000
and your payments will probably last longer than the coach.
It is also a LOT cheaper to fix everything now and do some short test
runs (100-300 miles) than to have to do a major repair thousands of
miles from home. By the way, get Sams towing, as they will tow you to
the nearest authorized repair center. One guy in our club got Sams to
tow him over 1,200 miles from Missouri to Florida.
Usage:
Find out how much use the coach has had from 7/96 till now.
Then how much usage from 7/94 till 7/96.
Maintenance:
Find out how much maintenance was performed from 7/96 till now.
Then how much maintenance was performed from 7/94 till 7/96.
This will give you a pretty good picture of how well it has been
maintained and how much interest the prior owner had in the coach near
the end.
If it has had little mechanical maint and has been sitting a lot
lately:
Items you will likely need:
Shocks are $47ea I like KYBs (Bilsteins are higher) both guaranteed
for life
Tires (may have tons of tread but look for dry rot) are $450 to $700
Hoses and belts are $100 to $300 and I would replace all
Radiator Flush/Rebuild can be minor $50 to major $350
Tuneup is a must at $150 to $350
Tuneup should include new cap, rotor, spark plugs and wires
Manifolds are $65 each listen for leaks
Bearings are about $40 to $60 per wheel and very critical
Airbags are $200-220 each and buying a spare is a good idea
Exhaust will set you back $300 to $500 and remember, you are sleeping
in there
Front suspension can cost you $500 to $2,500 if it is sloppy
Rear suspension can cost you more so check for even tire tread wear
Check the frame VERY carefully inch by inch front to back inside and
out as this little item can set you back $4,000 to $10,000 if its
rotten. It basically makes the coach worthless.
Fill the water tank then empty it into holding tank as each are about
$250
Pressurize the water system with garden hose and let sit while you
inspect
There is a lot more, but I'm sure others here will other items to
check
Major Items (hope you don't need)
Prices are based on Alex Sirum
A rebuilt engine around 4,000.
A final drive is $500 to $1,200 depending on what you want.
Trans rebuilds about $600-750
The generator is very tricky and can cost several hundred to rebuild -
run it and check it
I spent 3 hours looking at my 78 with a mechanic and found enough
wrong with what appeared to be a PERFECT coach to knock $4,500 off the
asking price. The asking price seemed very fair on the surface.
But it is not all bad news, my 77 Kingsley cost me $30,000 new, and I
feel that over all parts prices are far better today than 20 years
ago. This is especially true when you consider inflation since then.
I spent almost $5,000 on my 78 coach the first 45 days I had it last
year. But I got a lot done.
I had the front suspension rebuilt (hubs, all new bushings, pins,
steering and more)
My GMC steering is as tight as my 97 Camry! This lets my wife drive!
All new shocks
All new bearings
All new tires
All new brakes (w/ new everything including calipers, pads, lines,
master, rotors, shoes)
Replaced all hoses, belts, vacuum lines, and oil lines
Complete tuneup with new sp wires, rotor, cap, new manifolds, and fuel
lines.
Full radiator clean and flush.
ONAN did a complete tuneup on the gen set with new computer board,
filters, rebuilt carb and new starter switches.
2 new batteries Motor/Coach.
One cosmetic - New custom headliner, sidewalls, insulation, and
carpet.
It was well worth the expense. I have put 12,500 miles on the coach in
8 months. I have had only minor mechanical since. I replaced the dash
fan ($17) and had one flat (Goodyear forgot to replace one valve
stem). That's it!
As to the coach maintenance, one minor water system leak, replace
range fan, TV antenna booster ($30) and a couple of light bulbs!
Our last trip in June was over 2,700 miles in 10 days with 100 degree
temps, burned 2.5 qts of oil, and put 95 hrs on gen set using another
3.5 qts of oil. Total mechanical and coach maintenance for trip: Zero
GMCs can be extremely reliable if well cared for and properly
maintained. They are also very economical compared to other gas
coaches. On our last trip, we got 11.5 mpg out and 10.5 mpg returning
as we towed a 2000 pound trailer. We typically cruise at 65 mph and
always run our dash air. My 77 used to get 12.5 mpg but were still
working on that little problem. After every trip mine get a complete
bath (top and bottom), everything is looked over and I store it
inside.
Good Luck in your search and don't be in a hurry.
Mike Finnicum
78 GMC Eleganza II
Naples, FL
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Content-Type: text/plain; name="GMC Motorhome Questions.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="GMC Motorhome Questions.txt"
Model Year:
Model:
Price: How firm:
Total Mileage: Can it be documented:
How long have you owned coach:
Location of coach:
Engine
CID (455 or 403):
Original (Y/N):
Overhauled:
If overhauled
Miles since overhaul:
How extensive:
Any warranty left:
Other major work done:
Current Condition:
Transmission/Final Drive
Original (Y/N):
Overhauled:
If overhauled
Miles since overhaul:
How extensive:
Any warranty left:
Final Gear Ratio (ie: 3.08, 3.46):
Other major work done:
Current Condition:
Exterior
Colors:
Condition:
When last painted:
How extensive:
Photos available:
Tires
Year replaced:
Miles:
Brand:
Batteries
Front - Year replaced:
Rear - Year replaced:
Maint records
Are they available
Is there a cronology
How far back do they go
Interior
FloorPlan
Rear
Facing mini-couches: Table:
Queen Bed Fixed: Are orig mini-couches avail:
Twin Beds:
Other:
Front
Orig Couch/Bunkbed:
Orig Dinette w/table:
Orig Swivel Chairs w/table:
Other:
Driver
Orig Capt Chairs:
Other:
Upholstery
Colors:
Type fabric:
Condition (New, Perfect, Good, Fair, Needs replacing):
When last redone:
How extensive:
Are different fabrics/colors/textures
used for different items?
If so please explain:
Carpet
Colors:
Style (Berber, Plush, etc):
Condition (New, Perfect, Good, Fair, Needs replacing):
When last redone:
How extensive:
Blinds
Colors:
Style (curtains, miniblinds, other):
Condition (New, Perfect, Good, Fair, Needs replacing):
When last redone:
How extensive:
Refrigerator: 2way? or 3way(w/gas)?
Condition (New, Perfect, Good, Fair, Needs replacing):
When replaced:
Microwave?
Towing hitch?
Any damage?
Ever wrecked?
What does not work?
What needs attention?
Any special features, options, comments?
How stored? Inside: Outside:
Your Mileage experience?
- ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BDB657.0C5BE180--
After putting over 120,000 miles on my first GMC (a 77 Kingsley), I
bought a 78 GMC Eleganza II last August in Naples, FL. with 52,000
miles. My biggest expenses on my first GMC was the 2 brake jobs, 1
airbag and 2 sets of tires (other than $1,000s in gas!). I spent far
more in insurance than I did on maintenance.
But I, like Bob, and probably most others, spend a lot of money on my
78 GMC when I first bought it. It seems that when they are for sale
they are usually in need of lots of TLC (probably why they are for
sale). It's usually because the last owner lost interest.
RE: Things to consider (or ignore)
I have attached a text form I used to evaluate the GMCs I was looking
at.
First and foremost, Paul Bartz is 150% correct, look at as many GMCs
as you can. At least 5 to 10. I researched over 40 and actually looked
hard at over 10 of those. There were many improvements over those
short 6 years. You may find you like some of the newer features of the
77 and 78. The 73 was the first year and is lacking many features and
polish if it is original. For one, the cabinetry and furniture greatly
improved in subsequent years. Personally I limited my search last year
to 76-78 but then that was my preference. Many like the older ones
better.
On a GMC 51,000 miles probably means 151,000 or 251,000 miles. Dave
Greenberg odometer says 80,000 miles but it has 580,000 miles although
it sure does not look it. Unless you have a complete history and
maintenance trail it probably has more miles. That's not necessarily
bad, but I was always wary of a coach whose owner who first misled me
on the milage. What's next.
Since you say your money is limited - DON'T spend all your budget on
the coach purchase. Save at least 1/3 to 1/2 for fixing it up. If you
can't afford a GMC on 2/3 of your budget I would wait and learn a
whole lot more first. No matter which one you buy you will probably
end up with $15,000 to $25,000 minimum in a mechanically reliable
coach. The cosmetics are the difference between 15 and 25. Obviously
you can also spend a GREAT deal more. Many have $35000 to $90000 in
their coaches. But when you consider a low end Winebago new is $47000
and your payments will probably last longer than the coach.
It is also a LOT cheaper to fix everything now and do some short test
runs (100-300 miles) than to have to do a major repair thousands of
miles from home. By the way, get Sams towing, as they will tow you to
the nearest authorized repair center. One guy in our club got Sams to
tow him over 1,200 miles from Missouri to Florida.
Usage:
Find out how much use the coach has had from 7/96 till now.
Then how much usage from 7/94 till 7/96.
Maintenance:
Find out how much maintenance was performed from 7/96 till now.
Then how much maintenance was performed from 7/94 till 7/96.
This will give you a pretty good picture of how well it has been
maintained and how much interest the prior owner had in the coach near
the end.
If it has had little mechanical maint and has been sitting a lot
lately:
Items you will likely need:
Shocks are $47ea I like KYBs (Bilsteins are higher) both guaranteed
for life
Tires (may have tons of tread but look for dry rot) are $450 to $700
Hoses and belts are $100 to $300 and I would replace all
Radiator Flush/Rebuild can be minor $50 to major $350
Tuneup is a must at $150 to $350
Tuneup should include new cap, rotor, spark plugs and wires
Manifolds are $65 each listen for leaks
Bearings are about $40 to $60 per wheel and very critical
Airbags are $200-220 each and buying a spare is a good idea
Exhaust will set you back $300 to $500 and remember, you are sleeping
in there
Front suspension can cost you $500 to $2,500 if it is sloppy
Rear suspension can cost you more so check for even tire tread wear
Check the frame VERY carefully inch by inch front to back inside and
out as this little item can set you back $4,000 to $10,000 if its
rotten. It basically makes the coach worthless.
Fill the water tank then empty it into holding tank as each are about
$250
Pressurize the water system with garden hose and let sit while you
inspect
There is a lot more, but I'm sure others here will other items to
check
Major Items (hope you don't need)
Prices are based on Alex Sirum
A rebuilt engine around 4,000.
A final drive is $500 to $1,200 depending on what you want.
Trans rebuilds about $600-750
The generator is very tricky and can cost several hundred to rebuild -
run it and check it
I spent 3 hours looking at my 78 with a mechanic and found enough
wrong with what appeared to be a PERFECT coach to knock $4,500 off the
asking price. The asking price seemed very fair on the surface.
But it is not all bad news, my 77 Kingsley cost me $30,000 new, and I
feel that over all parts prices are far better today than 20 years
ago. This is especially true when you consider inflation since then.
I spent almost $5,000 on my 78 coach the first 45 days I had it last
year. But I got a lot done.
I had the front suspension rebuilt (hubs, all new bushings, pins,
steering and more)
My GMC steering is as tight as my 97 Camry! This lets my wife drive!
All new shocks
All new bearings
All new tires
All new brakes (w/ new everything including calipers, pads, lines,
master, rotors, shoes)
Replaced all hoses, belts, vacuum lines, and oil lines
Complete tuneup with new sp wires, rotor, cap, new manifolds, and fuel
lines.
Full radiator clean and flush.
ONAN did a complete tuneup on the gen set with new computer board,
filters, rebuilt carb and new starter switches.
2 new batteries Motor/Coach.
One cosmetic - New custom headliner, sidewalls, insulation, and
carpet.
It was well worth the expense. I have put 12,500 miles on the coach in
8 months. I have had only minor mechanical since. I replaced the dash
fan ($17) and had one flat (Goodyear forgot to replace one valve
stem). That's it!
As to the coach maintenance, one minor water system leak, replace
range fan, TV antenna booster ($30) and a couple of light bulbs!
Our last trip in June was over 2,700 miles in 10 days with 100 degree
temps, burned 2.5 qts of oil, and put 95 hrs on gen set using another
3.5 qts of oil. Total mechanical and coach maintenance for trip: Zero
GMCs can be extremely reliable if well cared for and properly
maintained. They are also very economical compared to other gas
coaches. On our last trip, we got 11.5 mpg out and 10.5 mpg returning
as we towed a 2000 pound trailer. We typically cruise at 65 mph and
always run our dash air. My 77 used to get 12.5 mpg but were still
working on that little problem. After every trip mine get a complete
bath (top and bottom), everything is looked over and I store it
inside.
Good Luck in your search and don't be in a hurry.
Mike Finnicum
78 GMC Eleganza II
Naples, FL
- ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BDB657.0C5BE180
Content-Type: text/plain; name="GMC Motorhome Questions.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="GMC Motorhome Questions.txt"
Model Year:
Model:
Price: How firm:
Total Mileage: Can it be documented:
How long have you owned coach:
Location of coach:
Engine
CID (455 or 403):
Original (Y/N):
Overhauled:
If overhauled
Miles since overhaul:
How extensive:
Any warranty left:
Other major work done:
Current Condition:
Transmission/Final Drive
Original (Y/N):
Overhauled:
If overhauled
Miles since overhaul:
How extensive:
Any warranty left:
Final Gear Ratio (ie: 3.08, 3.46):
Other major work done:
Current Condition:
Exterior
Colors:
Condition:
When last painted:
How extensive:
Photos available:
Tires
Year replaced:
Miles:
Brand:
Batteries
Front - Year replaced:
Rear - Year replaced:
Maint records
Are they available
Is there a cronology
How far back do they go
Interior
FloorPlan
Rear
Facing mini-couches: Table:
Queen Bed Fixed: Are orig mini-couches avail:
Twin Beds:
Other:
Front
Orig Couch/Bunkbed:
Orig Dinette w/table:
Orig Swivel Chairs w/table:
Other:
Driver
Orig Capt Chairs:
Other:
Upholstery
Colors:
Type fabric:
Condition (New, Perfect, Good, Fair, Needs replacing):
When last redone:
How extensive:
Are different fabrics/colors/textures
used for different items?
If so please explain:
Carpet
Colors:
Style (Berber, Plush, etc):
Condition (New, Perfect, Good, Fair, Needs replacing):
When last redone:
How extensive:
Blinds
Colors:
Style (curtains, miniblinds, other):
Condition (New, Perfect, Good, Fair, Needs replacing):
When last redone:
How extensive:
Refrigerator: 2way? or 3way(w/gas)?
Condition (New, Perfect, Good, Fair, Needs replacing):
When replaced:
Microwave?
Towing hitch?
Any damage?
Ever wrecked?
What does not work?
What needs attention?
Any special features, options, comments?
How stored? Inside: Outside:
Your Mileage experience?
- ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BDB657.0C5BE180--
