Light fixtures

bartz paul

New member
Dec 3, 1997
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Scott:

I have replaced every one of the incandescent light fixtures under the
overhead cabinets in my 78 Royale with the Thin-Lite double tube, recessed
fluorescent fixtures. A total of seven fixtures. I love them. Of course
there is greater light intensity and I don't notice any horizontal glare
compared to the incandescent one's. They modernize the look of the coach
interior, and the recessed fixture is thinner in height than the
incandescent. I also like the rocker type switch compared to the original
slide switch, used to switch the light's on and off.

Paul Bartz

From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:29 PM
Subject: GMC: Light fixtures

Hello group!

Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
comments? What has been your experience?
 
Paul

What model(s)Thin Lites did you use? Did they surface mount as
replacements, or what does "recessed" mean in this application?

Don't they also have the advantage of a lower current draw?

Chuck

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bartz, Paul
To: 'gmcmotorhome'
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures

>Scott:
>
>I have replaced every one of the incandescent light fixtures under the
>overhead cabinets in my 78 Royale with the Thin-Lite double tube, recessed
>fluorescent fixtures. A total of seven fixtures. I love them. Of course
>there is greater light intensity and I don't notice any horizontal glare
>compared to the incandescent one's. They modernize the look of the coach
>interior, and the recessed fixture is thinner in height than the
>incandescent. I also like the rocker type switch compared to the original
>slide switch, used to switch the light's on and off.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:29 PM
>Subject: GMC: Light fixtures
>
>Hello group!
>
>Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
>comments? What has been your experience?
>
 
Paul,

Is there any additional or excessive noise on the radio or CB due to the
lights?

Heinz

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bartz, Paul
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures

>Scott:
>
>I have replaced every one of the incandescent light fixtures under the
>overhead cabinets in my 78 Royale with the Thin-Lite double tube, recessed
>fluorescent fixtures. A total of seven fixtures. I love them. Of course
>there is greater light intensity and I don't notice any horizontal glare
>compared to the incandescent one's. They modernize the look of the coach
>interior, and the recessed fixture is thinner in height than the
>incandescent. I also like the rocker type switch compared to the original
>slide switch, used to switch the light's on and off.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:29 PM
>Subject: GMC: Light fixtures
>
>Hello group!
>
>Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
>comments? What has been your experience?
>
>
 
Chuck:

Since I'm not at home, I can't tell you the model. I can do so later
tonight if needed. I'd recommend you contact Thin-Lite for their catalog.
Believe they're located in CA. Can tell you their location and phone number
later tonight after work if needed.

Recessed means recessed or part of it is hidden inside (the cabinet). As I
recall, about 1-1/16" of the fixture is inside the bottom of the overhead
cabinet's.. Requires cutting out a section of the wood bottom. The Royale
cabinets have a void between the inside floor and the outside, or underside,
of the cabinet. There is a flange around the bottom of the fixture which
mounts up to the underside of the cabinet opening. A screw in each corner
of the flange, secures the fixture in place.

Paul

From: Chuck Blanford [mailto:Chuck.Blanford]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Light fixtures

Paul

What model(s)Thin Lites did you use? Did they surface mount as
replacements, or what does "recessed" mean in this application?

Don't they also have the advantage of a lower current draw?

From: Bartz, Paul
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures

Scott:

I have replaced every one of the incandescent light fixtures under the
overhead cabinets in my 78 Royale with the Thin-Lite double tube, recessed
fluorescent fixtures. A total of seven fixtures. I love them. Of course
there is greater light intensity and I don't notice any horizontal glare
compared to the incandescent one's. They modernize the look of the coach
interior, and the recessed fixture is thinner in height than the
incandescent. I also like the rocker type switch compared to the original
slide switch, used to switch the light's on and off.
Paul Bartz

From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:29 PM
Subject: GMC: Light fixtures

Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
comments? What has been your experience?
 
Heinz:

Not that I'm aware of.

Paul

From: Heinz Wittenbecher [mailto:heinz]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Light fixtures

Paul,

Is there any additional or excessive noise on the radio or CB due to the
lights?

Heinz

From: Bartz, Paul
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures

Scott:

I have replaced every one of the incandescent light fixtures under the
overhead cabinets in my 78 Royale with the Thin-Lite double tube, recessed
fluorescent fixtures. A total of seven fixtures. I love them. Of course
there is greater light intensity and I don't notice any horizontal glare
compared to the incandescent one's. They modernize the look of the coach
interior, and the recessed fixture is thinner in height than the
incandescent. I also like the rocker type switch compared to the original
slide switch, used to switch the light's on and off.

Paul Bartz

From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:29 PM
Subject: GMC: Light fixtures

Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
comments? What has been your experience?
 
I have a 12 ring type flouoescent in my overhead fixture. It's not as
bright as a 120v, and in fact adds to the cozy-ness for that night cap.

>Hello group!
>
>Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
>comments? What has been your experience?
>
>Scott Adohen
>
 
>Hello group!
>
>Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
>comments? What has been your experience?
>
>Scott Adohen
>

Scott,

We replaced the rear incandescent between the bath and closet with a thin
profile florescent. It draws less thn half of the current that the old unit
did, and generates more light. The light is bluer than the orangish given
off by the incandescent so you may want to keep that in mind.

We've also played around with halogens for the main cabin area. I prefer
the light quality of halogens to florescents.. I also like the idea of
being able dim the lights if I want.

If you want to minimize power consumption the florescents are the way to
go. But, the GMC as originally configured has a lot of other power drains
that are more significant.

Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (408) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
>Paul,
>
>Is there any additional or excessive noise on the radio or CB due to the
>lights?
>
>Heinz
>
I haven't noticed any electrical noise associated with our florescents. We
also used the Thin Lite dual tube design. It gives a little more clearance
for top of the closet door.

Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (408) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
At 03:58 PM 2/24/99 -0500, Paul wrote:=20
>
> Chuck:
>
> Recessed means recessed or part of it is hidden inside (the cabinet).=A0=
As I
> recall, about 1-1/16" of the fixture is inside the bottom of the overhead
> cabinet's..=20

Mine is flush mount and about 1" thick. I'll check it out tonight.

Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting=20
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews=20
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews=20
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing=20
fax: (408) 462-5198=20
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
>
> Chuck:
>
> Recessed means recessed or part of it is hidden inside (the cabinet). As I
> recall, about 1-1/16" of the fixture is inside the bottom of the overhead
> cabinet's..

Mine is flush mount and about 1" thick. I'll check it out tonight.

Thanks Henry. That's what I'm looking for. I don't want to cut holes in
the bottoms of the cabinets. I also want them thin enough so they clear the
top of the bathroom door.

Chuck
 
Chuck
The two lamp fixture with #1141 bulbs draws 2.88 amps according to
the shop manual, my amp meter read 2.6 amps.
A 30 watt thin light on my amp meter reads 2.2 amps.

Ken & Virginia Fitzgerald
75 Glenbrook OKLA

>
> Paul
>
> What model(s)Thin Lites did you use? Did they surface mount as
> replacements, or what does "recessed" mean in this application?
>
> Don't they also have the advantage of a lower current draw?
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bartz, Paul
> To: 'gmcmotorhome'
> Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:42 PM
> Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures
>
> >Scott:
> >
> >I have replaced every one of the incandescent light fixtures under the
> >overhead cabinets in my 78 Royale with the Thin-Lite double tube, recessed
> >fluorescent fixtures. A total of seven fixtures. I love them. Of course
> >there is greater light intensity and I don't notice any horizontal glare
> >compared to the incandescent one's. They modernize the look of the coach
> >interior, and the recessed fixture is thinner in height than the
> >incandescent. I also like the rocker type switch compared to the original
> >slide switch, used to switch the light's on and off.
> >
> > Paul Bartz
> >
> >From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:29 PM
> >Subject: GMC: Light fixtures
> >
> >Hello group!
> >
> >Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
> >comments? What has been your experience?
> >
 
Scott
I installed 12v Fluorescent lites in the hallway between the bath &
closet and also above the galley sink. Very pleased with the much
improved lighting. Used Thin Lite model 112 size 12"x5.5"x1" Dual Tube
16 watt 1.5 amps

Dick Missett
73 ex-Sequoia
Wyoming PA
 
Chuck:

Fixtures I purchased are:

736XL for use over the dinette (two fixtures)and kitchen (single
fixture)areas.
732 for use over the rear twin beds (two on each side).

Thin-Lite has a web site: http://www.thinlite.com. However, they do not
list all their fixtures (e. g. neither of the above fixtures).

A correction to the below dimension, it should be 15/16".

Paul

From: Bartz, Paul
Sent: 2/24/99 3:58 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures

Chuck:

Since I'm not at home, I can't tell you the model. I can do so later
tonight if needed. I'd recommend you contact Thin-Lite for their
catalog.
Believe they're located in CA. Can tell you their location and phone
number
later tonight after work if needed.

Recessed means recessed or part of it is hidden inside (the cabinet).
As I
recall, about 1-1/16" of the fixture is inside the bottom of the
overhead
cabinet's.. Requires cutting out a section of the wood bottom. The
Royale
cabinets have a void between the inside floor and the outside, or
underside,
of the cabinet. There is a flange around the bottom of the fixture
which
mounts up to the underside of the cabinet opening. A screw in each
corner
of the flange, secures the fixture in place.

Paul

From: Chuck Blanford [mailto:Chuck.Blanford]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Light fixtures

Paul

What model(s)Thin Lites did you use? Did they surface mount as
replacements, or what does "recessed" mean in this application?

Don't they also have the advantage of a lower current draw?

From: Bartz, Paul
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures

Scott:

I have replaced every one of the incandescent light fixtures under the
overhead cabinets in my 78 Royale with the Thin-Lite double tube,
recessed
fluorescent fixtures. A total of seven fixtures. I love them. Of
course
there is greater light intensity and I don't notice any horizontal glare
compared to the incandescent one's. They modernize the look of the
coach
interior, and the recessed fixture is thinner in height than the
incandescent. I also like the rocker type switch compared to the
original
slide switch, used to switch the light's on and off.
Paul Bartz

From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:29 PM
Subject: GMC: Light fixtures

Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
comments? What has been your experience?
 
When I did my ceiling, I put in a dropped ceiling which allowed me to
install four recessed 12v light flourescent fixtures. They put out more
light and look great.
Al Chernoff
77 Eleganza II

> Hello group!
>
> Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
> comments? What has been your experience?
>
> Scott Adohen
 
Paul

Thank you! That's exactly what I have been looking for. Ditto to Richard
Water's comments re. the interactivity of this net. I also subscribe to all
of the printed periodicals, but the value is here, everyday, 7 days a week.
Thank you, my faceless friends.

Chuck
77K
North Idaho

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bartz, Paul
To: 'gmcmotorhome'
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures

>Chuck:
>
>Fixtures I purchased are:
>
> 736XL for use over the dinette (two fixtures)and kitchen (single
>fixture)areas.
> 732 for use over the rear twin beds (two on each side).
>
>Thin-Lite has a web site: http://www.thinlite.com. However, they do not
>list all their fixtures (e. g. neither of the above fixtures).
>
>A correction to the below dimension, it should be 15/16".
>
> Paul
>
>From: Bartz, Paul
>Sent: 2/24/99 3:58 PM
>Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures
>
>Chuck:
>
>Since I'm not at home, I can't tell you the model. I can do so later
>tonight if needed. I'd recommend you contact Thin-Lite for their
>catalog.
>Believe they're located in CA. Can tell you their location and phone
>number
>later tonight after work if needed.
>
>Recessed means recessed or part of it is hidden inside (the cabinet).
>As I
>recall, about 1-1/16" of the fixture is inside the bottom of the
>overhead
>cabinet's.. Requires cutting out a section of the wood bottom. The
>Royale
>cabinets have a void between the inside floor and the outside, or
>underside,
>of the cabinet. There is a flange around the bottom of the fixture
>which
>mounts up to the underside of the cabinet opening. A screw in each
>corner
>of the flange, secures the fixture in place.
>
> Paul
>
>From: Chuck Blanford [mailto:Chuck.Blanford]
>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:48 PM
>Subject: Re: GMC: Light fixtures
>
>Paul
>
>What model(s)Thin Lites did you use? Did they surface mount as
>replacements, or what does "recessed" mean in this application?
>
>Don't they also have the advantage of a lower current draw?
>
>From: Bartz, Paul
>Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:42 PM
>Subject: RE: GMC: Light fixtures
>
>Scott:
>
>I have replaced every one of the incandescent light fixtures under the
>overhead cabinets in my 78 Royale with the Thin-Lite double tube,
>recessed
>fluorescent fixtures. A total of seven fixtures. I love them. Of
>course
>there is greater light intensity and I don't notice any horizontal glare
>compared to the incandescent one's. They modernize the look of the
>coach
>interior, and the recessed fixture is thinner in height than the
>incandescent. I also like the rocker type switch compared to the
>original
>slide switch, used to switch the light's on and off.
> Paul Bartz
>
>From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:29 PM
>Subject: GMC: Light fixtures
>
>Have any of you replaced your lights with those 12 volts fluorescent,
>comments? What has been your experience?
 
>Henry
>
>Dont hit us up the side of the head with something like that and leave us
>standing here what should we be doing about power drains.(g) Besides the
>reefer what are you referring to?
>
OK. You asked for it!

First, for all lighting fixtures - even if you are going to keep the
original incandescents, make certain that there is no corrosion in the
sockets, switches, and wire connections. That's a requirement based on the
age of the vehicle and not the original configuration. When it comes to
lighting, you lose lumens (amount of light) at about a square law rate:
half the voltage means one quarter the light output or incandescents. In
addition, the light shifts in spectrum towards red. The wire connections,
especially grounds on the GMC, are prone to corrosion which translates into
added resistance. I measured 3+ volt drops in several wire runs to lights
before I started cleaning things. With this much drop you get about half
the lumens so you end up turning on more lights.

Some of the wiring is too small for the length of the wire plus return
path. This translates into more voltage drop and lower light output. I've
considered replacing some of the 12V lighting wires but haven't done so yet.

The fridge is the biggest power drain issue in the original configuration.
Unless you run the genset a lot, the fridge will suck down the batteries
pretty rapidly. And, the 12V feed is too small for the load. Propane is a
good thing for battery life.

On the charging side, the house battery cables are too small as are the
engine battery cables. Both result in a loss of efficiency due to voltage
drop. They'll work, but it will take longer to charge batteries to an
acceptable level. The wire from the alternator to the isolation block is
too small. Try grabbing the wire when the alternator is putting out near
maximum current - it's hot. The diode isolator also dissipates a fair
amount of heat when loaded. A better solution from power efficiency is to
use latching relays or manual switches - no significant voltage and no
holding current.

There's been a lot of discussion on the list about chargers, so I won't
beat that one. ;>

Heating and cooling are two big power hogs. Assuming that you're not using
the A/C:
The original power vents are horrible air movers for their amperage. Modern
vents are more efficient and quiter for the volume of air moved. Be
cautious of multispeed vents since some of them use a series of resistors
to divide the voltage to obtain lower speeds. Best is to look for an
electronic speed control that uses pulse width modulation ( I haven't
started down that path yet). I find that having a rain sensor vent means
that I can leave the vents open during the day and not worry about water
getting in. By keeping ventilation going while we're away, we never have as
much heat to eliminate when we get back. (And you don't have to have the
vents running for benfit).

Good window shades are one of the best power reduction sources around.
Judicious control of shade position can heat or cool the coach to a good
degree. When we boondock for extended periods we put the reflective bubble
insulation in the sun-facing windows to keep heat out. Good window tinting
will do some of the same while letting visible light in.

Heating relies on a lot of power to run the fans. Good weather striping,
seals, and window seals all help. Caulk any coach body leaks to prevent air
infiltration. Make certain that interior vents can be sealed (but leave the
required ones open). Improve ceiling insulation, floors and walls. Add
cellular shades to windows to provide more insulation.

Then there are the personal management items like turn off lights when not
in use, use only as many lights as you need, etc. install some task
lighting to brighten specific areas.

As one way of relieving the burden of our old refer, we put frozen gallon
jugs of water in the fridge. We used the water as it thawed. We also use
the fresh water tank for washing and flushing only. Drinking water is
carried in 2.5 gal plastic containers from the supermarket. We don't run
the pump much that way.

I'm sure that I've missed some, but it's a start.

Henry

Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (408) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
>
>Mine is flush mount and about 1" thick. I'll check it out tonight.
>
>
>
>Thanks Henry. That's what I'm looking for. I don't want to cut holes in
>the bottoms of the cabinets. I also want them thin enough so they clear the
>top of the bathroom door.
>
>Chuck
>

Chuck,

I measured tonight and the fixture from ceiling surface to the lowest point
on the lixture is 1 1/16. The light is a ThinLite sold at Camping World.
It's a dual tube with 16W output. Mine is mounted perpendicular to the axis
of the coach about 1 foot forward of the rear compartment - on the ceiling.
There is plenty of clearance for the closet door to open.

If you decide to keep some of the remaining interior lights you may be able
to buy replacement lenses. All the lights on my coach use standard square
lenses available in a variety of lens types. For more light use the
prismatic claer lenses.

Florescent is lower power per lumen, but Halogens are cheaper and easier to
dim if it matters to you.

Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (408) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (408) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com