IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

Ken H.

Active member
Sep 9, 2000
19,427
5
38
With the recent discussions of transfer switches, JUST IN CASE someone
installed an IOTA 50A, this should be checked out:
=======================================
... is recalling certain 2008-2009 Raptor toyhaulers, models 3110 and 3018,
equipped with IOTA ITS-50R transfer switches. These transfer switches may
fail when exposed to elevated electrical loads in higher ambient
temperatures. If the transfer switch fails, it can increase the risk of a
fire.
=======================================

Ken H.
 
Ken,

Thanks!

The only thing that the IOTA powers in Double Trouble is the Sharp combination Microwave / Grill / Convection Oven (SMGCO). I
installed it so that I wouldn't disturb people by starting up the Onan to use SMGCO and to date I haven't gotten it to work. When I
hit Start on the microwave the two 6vdc / 220 amp hour batteries voltage drops to a level that causes the inverter to shut down. I
have been hoping to get it to a GMCMI Convention or rally that you and/or Ken Burton are attending to solicit your help trying to
figger out why it does that. REMEMBER I am Electrically Challenged.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 11:05 AM
To: GMC Mail List
Subject: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

With the recent discussions of transfer switches, JUST IN CASE someone installed an IOTA 50A, this should be checked out:
=======================================
. is recalling certain 2008-2009 Raptor toyhaulers, models 3110 and 3018, equipped with IOTA ITS-50R transfer switches. These
transfer switches may fail when exposed to elevated electrical loads in higher ambient temperatures. If the transfer switch fails,
it can increase the risk of a fire.
=======================================

Ken H.
 
Rob, what size inverter do you have? What size cables and how far is the inverter from the batteries? Anything less than a 2000 watt is probably going
to struggle and even with that size inverter your run time will be VERY short. Microwave's draw an awful large load, not a real good candidate for
running off batteries.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,

Rio Rancho, NM
 
What Hal said. You ain't got sufficient battery there to run the Sharp which is a power hog. Making hot with electricity is an inefficient idea,
which doesn't matter at home where there's a wire delivering it; but certainly does when the supply is limited. Plus, >if< the inverter isn't a pure
sine wave box, the microwave part of the Sharp may not be happy with the stepped waveform anyway. Run the Onan or get a gas stove.

I copied this off a Sharp ad:

900-watt convection microwave provides both browning and crisping capabilities
1500-watt "double" grills emit heat over and under food; 11 power levels

900 Watts at 50% efficiency - good for a cooker - would want 1800 Watts off the inveter. !500 Watts for the grill, since it's resistive will be
essentially 100% efficient. Both will overload a 2KW inverter at turnon. Both on together will stall it. If the inverter runs 90% efficient or so,
it's gonna draw around 180 - 200 Amperes. This is going to want #2 cable from the barttery to it at a minimum. And close in the bargain. This is
close to being an exercise in futility :)

--johnny

--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
Hal/ Johnny,

Here's a sequence of photos of the install:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6710-xantrex-inverter-installation.html

Note that after these photos were taken a 30 amp ATS was installed. It feeds 110 vac from shore / Onan power or the Xantrex to the
Sharp.

I can't remember the wire gage that feeds the Sharpe from the ATS but I've been told that could be a problem. I've also been told
that two 6 VDC / 225 amp hour batteries aren't enough to feed the Sharp through the Xantrex.

My plan was to increase the wire size from the Xantrex to the 30 amp ATS and to the Sharp and see what happens. If that doesn't work
see if there's enough room to put three 12 volt deep cycle batteries connected in parallel where the two 6 vdc batteries are.

Having noted all this I will be selling Double Trouble (too many memories of Helen) and may just swap this all over to the Kingsley.
There is a LOT more room under the driver side bed in the Kingsley and I believe I can fit more batteries.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Hal StClair
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:08 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

Rob, what size inverter do you have? What size cables and how far is the inverter from the batteries? Anything less than a 2000 watt
is probably going to struggle and even with that size inverter your run time will be VERY short. Microwave's draw an awful large
load, not a real good candidate for running off batteries.
Hal
 
Here's a quickie chart I put together to show the amount of voltage loss in a theoretical 25' length of cable. It's easy to see that fatter cable is a
good investment, because inverters are notoriously finicky about the input voltage - I know my 1000 watt (continuous) inverter will happily crank out
7 amps of 120VAC now that it's fed with 2/0 and 1/0 cable (along with the original run of #4 in parallel). Before I put in the monster cable, the
microwave (original) or my little 7 amp vacuum would trip the protection circuit in the inverter. Now it just dims the lights in the coach when 100+
amps comes streaming out of the house batteries. ;)
--
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
 
The wire to the Xantrex at 1/0 ought to be big enough. The 110v side isn't likely to be a problem. However, start surge of the appliances may well
be greater than the inverter can supply... and battery life isn't going to be great in any case. I tried a simple Haier 900 Watt microwave - no grill
or 'convection' in the ads - and it will run, but the battery drain is large. Get a starter ammeter (A meter which has a shoe on the back which fits
over the battery cable) and see what current your setup is drawing. If it flicks to one side and falls back, the inverter is seeing too great a load
and stalling as a result. Assuming the inverter works.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
I had an eye opener a while back with a new microwave that simply would not run from my high quality inverter and large battery bank. Using an extension cord I found that it would not operate using the battery bank and inverter in either coach but the older microwave in the other coach would run off of the inverter and battery bank in either coach.

Best explanation had to do with the electronics in the newer microwave was fighting with the sine wave inverter electronics in the inverters (different brands) in both coaches.
 
I guess to each, his own. Our 78 Royale had, from the Coachman works, a 4
burner propane Magic Chef cooktop, and a magic chef 120 volt microwave
oven. It has an Atwood propane hot water heater and a 3 way Dometic fridge.
Also has a 120 volt blender. And the real power hog, a deLonghi expresso
machine. I added up the watts needed to run that stuff on an inverter, and
gave that idea up quickly. The battery bank would weigh more than the ONAN.
Cost more, too. So, I yanked out the cook top and microwave, replaced it
with a combination 3 burner cooktop/propane oven. Now, with my
cooktop/oven, hot water heater, and 30,000 btu Suburban propane furnace, I
fill up my propane tank about once a year. Most of the time we are at RV
parks with hookups, so I don't run my generator very often. We can boondock
several days without the generator and make coffee on the cooktop. It works
for us, but might not for others. Use you coach and see what your needs
are. Then, outfit you coach accordingly. I just finished working on a coach
for a customer that uses all kinds of electronic stuff. Every square inch
of surplus space is jammed with batteries, inverters, solar controllers,
stereo amplifiers, great big shunts and relays, and huge battery cables.
He can boondocks for a couple of days and then he is depleted. Lots of
generator time for him. He always has to have some kind of electronic
noisemakers running. But that is his world, not mine. We don't even have a
TV on board.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or

> I had an eye opener a while back with a new microwave that simply would
> not run from my high quality inverter and large battery bank. Using an
> extension cord I found that it would not operate using the battery bank and
> inverter in either coach but the older microwave in the other coach would
> run off of the inverter and battery bank in either coach.
>
> Best explanation had to do with the electronics in the newer microwave was
> fighting with the sine wave inverter electronics in the inverters
> (different brands) in both coaches.
>
> From that experience I learned one just has to try the combination of
> appliance and inverter. More recently I found something similar trying to
> power an induction hot plate off the inverters in the Prevost. The battery
> bank is huge at 1850 amp hours but the induction hot plate would not run
> from the Heart 2500 inverters. Those inverters are modified square wave but
> run everything else in the coach without complaint. The induction unit
> Looks like it is working, the display lights up, the timer runs but the
> unit does not produce heat. Plug it into a land line or run the generator
> and it works just fine.
>
> Jerry Work
> Kerby, OR
> ......
> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 07:56:21 -0600
> From: Johnny Bridges
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The wire to the Xantrex at 1/0 ought to be big enough. The 110v side
> isn't likely to be a problem. However, start surge of the appliances may
> well
> be greater than the inverter can supply... and battery life isn't going to
> be great in any case. I tried a simple Haier 900 Watt microwave - no grill
> or 'convection' in the ads - and it will run, but the battery drain is
> large. Get......
> ......
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
It's the same for me.

We don't have a TV on board, though in a pinch I can put TV on a laptop.

I second the motion of doing some camping before deciding how to optimize
these systems. The only inverter I need runs my CPAP machine, which is
compact with a built-in power supply. I have finally bought a quality
inverter (pure sine wave) for doing that, and I might once in a while
charge a laptop battery with it. It's small enough to run from the
cigarette lighter.

I need AC power for water heating and the roof air conditioner, but when I
replace the water heater, I will probably get one that is propane-powered.
My activities include camping at ham-radio events, where running a
generator that sprays as much RF as my Generac does earns me the enmity of
my ham colleagues. I often have a Honda suitcase generator for those events
to run the radio station (they are RF-quiet), and I just don't run the AC.
Hot water would be nice, though.

And at Bean Station this year it was cold and I needed my roof air heat
strip to make warmth (my furnace is not working at the moment--not usually
a problem for me). Bean Station's power capability is minimal. Several of
us finally gave up on long tradition and ran our generators to take the
edge off and to make hot water.

I doubt I will ever need an inverter bigger than what my CPAP machine needs.

Rick "optimized where possible for direct 12 volts" Denney

> I guess to each, his own. Our 78 Royale had, from the Coachman works, a 4
> burner propane Magic Chef cooktop, and a magic chef120 volt microwave
> oven. It has an Atwood propane hot water heater and a 3 way Dometic fridge.
> Also has a 120 volt blender. And the real power hog, a deLonghi expresso
> machine. I added up the watts needed to run that stuff on an inverter, and
> gave that idea up quickly. The battery bank would weigh more than the ONAN.
> Cost more, too. So, I yanked out the cook top and microwave, replaced it
> with a combination 3 burner cooktop/propane oven. Now, with my
> cooktop/oven, hot water heater, and 30,000 btu Suburban propane furnace, I
> fill up my propane tank about once a year. Most of the time we are at RV
> parks with hookups, so I don't run my generator very often. We can boondock
> several days without the generator and make coffee on the cooktop. It works
> for us, but might not for others. Use you coach and see what your needs
> are. Then, outfit you coach accordingly. I just finished working on a coach
> for a customer that uses all kinds of electronic stuff. Every square inch
> of surplus space is jammed with batteries, inverters, solar controllers,
> stereo amplifiers, great big shunts and relays, and huge battery cables.
> He can boondocks for a couple of days and then he is depleted. Lots of
> generator time for him. He always has to have some kind of electronic
> noisemakers running. But that is his world, not mine. We don't even have a
> TV on board.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
>
>
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Johnny,

That's what I thought, however, I figgered I'd increase the wire size and see what happens.

I thought I'd take a moment and explain why I wanted to run the microwave off an inverter. Helen and I were parked at a rest sstop
for lunch and I fired up the Onan to microwave something. Two minutes after I had done so I heard a knock at our door and when I
opened the door a guy told me that it was distrurbing his families lunch at a table nearby. Not wanting a confrontation I apologized
and shut the Onan down.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Johnny Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 9:56 PM
To: gmclist
Cc: Johnny Bridges
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

The wire to the Xantrex at 1/0 ought to be big enough. The 110v side isn't likely to be a problem. However, start surge of the
appliances may well be greater than the inverter can supply... and battery life isn't going to be great in any case. I tried a
simple Haier 900 Watt microwave - no grill or 'convection' in the ads - and it will run, but the battery drain is large. Get a
starter ammeter (A meter which has a shoe on the back which fits over the battery cable) and see what current your setup is drawing.
If it flicks to one side and falls back, the inverter is seeing too great a load and stalling as a result. Assuming the inverter
works.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

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I'm cognizant of spoiling the other guy's lunch. Howsomever, moving elsewhere in the rest are or stuffing the high exhaust on the onan seems less
trouble and expense :)

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
Johnny,

Agreed, however, I already have the bits and pieces and if it's a matter of adding a couple of batteries when I install it in the
Kingsley I'll spend the bucks.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Johnny Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 9:09 PM
To: gmclist
Cc: Johnny Bridges
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] IOTA 50A Transfer Switches

I'm cognizant of spoiling the other guy's lunch. Howsomever, moving elsewhere in the rest are or stuffing the high exhaust on the
onan seems less trouble and expense :)

--johnny