hood hole repair

Emery please give me the link as I need to read up a bit on SMC, I have the 3M 8115 that I will use to glue a couple of panels back on bu I bought a
can of U-pol SMC filler for other repairs (
http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-pol-SMC-1-1Ltr-Black-High-Adhesion-Easy-Sand-Plastic-Bumper-Filler-BEST-Price-/221792843460?hash=item33a3e236c4:g:GOsAAOxyJypTk57S
)but that is of course polyester based..
--
1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green Machine,
And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway
 
Instead of giving the link I can summarize the article in this email. =
SMC is actually polyester based but the way GM incorporated the mold releas=
e agent during manufacturing makes polyester resin a poor choice for repair=
. Here is the article that I wrote for the GMCMI newsletter issue 96, Sum=
mer 2006, that might be of some interest to you. The earliest 1973 ve=
hicles have =E2=80=9Chand laid=E2=80=9D =EF=AC=81berglass, at least for the=
front body assembly. Somewhere between serial number 24 and 50 this proce=
ss became SMC (sheet molded compound). This was a new composite material fo=
r use in the automotive, industrial, and personal watercraft markets that p=
resents unique repair problems. Parts made with SMC are produced in compre=
ssion molds, so they are smooth on both the inside and outside. SMC parts =
do not have an outer gel coat, but they are usually painted or color molded=
. When the paint is sanded off, the underlying surface has a marble appear=
ance. When damaged SMC is sanded, short coarse =EF=AC=81bers are exposed a=
nd a dryer powdery dust is produced compared to conventional materials.SMC =
is a polyester-based material, but it cannot be repaired with polyester res=
in. This is due to the mold release agent that is present throughout the en=
tire SMC part. Unlike conventionally molded parts where release agents are =
applied to the mold surface, SMC is compounded with them in the resin mix f=
or quicker processing. This means that as the damage is sanded to prepare a=
good bonding surface, fresh mold release agent is exposed. Polyester resin=
products are not strong enough to adhere to this surface. SMC SHOULD ONLY =
BE REPAIRED USING EPOXY-BASED RESINS, FILLERS AND ADHESIVES. For good adhe=
sion, when painting, use only catalyzed type paint systems -- at least for =
the primer.When a part is broken or crushed, it is dif=EF=AC=81cult to real=
ign the pieces with each other because the frayed =EF=AC=81bers tend to =
=E2=80=9Chang up=E2=80=9D on one another. Use a saw blade to cut the length=
of cracks or tears. This relieves the stress on solid laminates which ofte=
n return to their original shape with little force. A router is excellent =
for removing damaged core material without disturbing intact face skins. Tr=
y to remove as little material as possible so the repair does not grow too =
large. However, solid laminate must be exposed for a good repair.Next, supp=
ort the part so nothing gets distorted during the repair process. This can =
be as simple as strips of 2 inch wide masking tape or as elaborate as a cus=
tom-made clamping =EF=AC=81xture. With the part supported, proceed to prep=
aring the bonding surface by grinding a taper or steps around the damage. T=
his is the critical step for functional repairs but it is also the most ove=
rlooked and abused. If a taper is to be used, measure the depth of the val=
ley and calculate how far the sanding must extend to achieve the desired ra=
tio. Mark the outer edge of the taper using a marker and begin sanding inw=
ard toward the valley. Be sure to remove material slowly so the taper progr=
esses evenly. Wet the entire bonding area with resin, then begin saturatin=
g each ply of reinforcement before it is placed. Work on a sheet of plasti=
c so the fabric can be easily lifted from the table once it is ready. A =
=EF=AC=82exible rubber squeegee is the best tool for spreading the resin ev=
enly through the fabric and removing excess which may be present. Place the=
reinforcement into its spot on the repair, ensuring the proper orientation=
. Stop every few layers to compact the patch as much as possible. A squeege=
e or grooved roller works well for this. Continue stacking the repair plies=
at right angles until all the material that was removed has been replaced.=
A =EF=AC=81nal cover layer is then added over the entire area. Sand befor=
e painting. Emery Stora > On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:14 PM, Espen =
Heitmann wrote: > > Emery please give me the link as=
I need to read up a bit on SMC, I have the 3M 8115 that I will use to glue=
a couple of panels back on bu I bought a > can of U-pol SMC filler for o=
ther repairs ( > http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-pol-SMC-1-1Ltr-Black-High-Adhe=
sion-Easy-Sand-Plastic-Bumper-Filler-BEST-Price-/221792843460?hash item33=
a3e236c4:g:GOsAAOxyJypTk57S > )but that is of course polyester based.. =
> -- > 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Gree=
n Machine, > And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under t=
he name Dobbelt tr=C3=B8bbel > in Norway > > > __________________=
_____________________________ > GMCnet mailing list > Unsubscribe or Ch=
ange List Options: > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list=
.gmcnet.org
 
Thank you Emery

The next question then is why a company sells polyester based fillers for SMC repairs ?
I will start repairing a panel this weekend if I have the time and try some of the filler i have just to see how it works, I will glue in some
aluminum reinforcements with the 8115 anyways and the filler will not be used on anything critical or places it will be seen when I am done
--
1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green Machine,
And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway
 
I would guess that the polyester fillers would work fine if it were not for the way that GM mixed the mold release agent into the whole mix.
Other companies may not do it that way in their SMC parts.

Emery Stora

>
> Thank you Emery
>
> The next question then is why a company sells polyester based fillers for SMC repairs ?
> I will start repairing a panel this weekend if I have the time and try some of the filler i have just to see how it works, I will glue in some
> aluminum reinforcements with the 8115 anyways and the filler will not be used on anything critical or places it will be seen when I am done
> --
> 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green Machine,
> And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
> in Norway
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
8115 has small glass spheres in it to maintain minimum material thickness
for bond joint strength. The spheres prevent excessive squeeze out from
clamping. These spheres also make 8115 more difficult to work with when you
are attempting to saturate stranded material. If full saturation is not
achieved there will be a resulting lack of strength of the finished repair
and "dry spots" within the matting which can be seen when the repair is
ground back for final cosmetic finishing with plastic body filler. If I
were to perform a structural repair over a larger area (6+ inches) I would
find a scrap piece of gmc smc with the same contour or if that was not
available use a piece of aluminum sheet formed to the curve of the panel
and bond THAT to the backside of the repair area with 8115. At this point
your structural stability has been restored and the remaining cavity on the
cosmetic side can be filled with the filler of your choice.

Sully
77 Royale
Seattle

> I would guess that the polyester fillers would work fine if it were not
> for the way that GM mixed the mold release agent into the whole mix.
> Other companies may not do it that way in their SMC parts.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> > On Sep 21, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Espen Heitmann >
> > Thank you Emery
> >
> > The next question then is why a company sells polyester based fillers
> for SMC repairs ?
> > I will start repairing a panel this weekend if I have the time and try
> some of the filler i have just to see how it works, I will glue in some
> > aluminum reinforcements with the 8115 anyways and the filler will not be
> used on anything critical or places it will be seen when I am done
> > --
> > 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green
> Machine,
> > And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name
> Dobbelt trøbbel
> > in Norway
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
They claim they have additives that allow the polyester to bond to SMC

>>>
>>> The next question then is why a company sells polyester based fillers
>> for SMC repairs ?
>>> I will start repairing a panel this weekend if I have the time and try
>> some of the filler i have just to see how it works, I will glue in some
>>> aluminum reinforcements with the 8115 anyways and the filler will not be
>> used on anything critical or places it will be seen when I am done
>>> --
>>> 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green
>> Machine,
>>> And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name
>> Dobbelt trøbbel
>>> in Norway
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
I do t think the smc is the issue but the gmc specific smc like Emery said.

Sully
77 eleganza 2
Seattle

> They claim they have additives that allow the polyester to bond to SMC
>
>
> >>>
> >>> The next question then is why a company sells polyester based fillers
> >> for SMC repairs ?
> >>> I will start repairing a panel this weekend if I have the time and try
> >> some of the filler i have just to see how it works, I will glue in some
> >>> aluminum reinforcements with the 8115 anyways and the filler will not
> be
> >> used on anything critical or places it will be seen when I am done
> >>> --
> >>> 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green
> >> Machine,
> >>> And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name
> >> Dobbelt trøbbel
> >>> in Norway
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
But, if you have a choice why use polyester instead of epoxy?
We all know that epoxy is much stronger than polyester.
Is it because you don’t want to pay the little bit more that epoxy costs?

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> They claim they have additives that allow the polyester to bond to SMC
>
>
>>>>
>>>> The next question then is why a company sells polyester based fillers
>>> for SMC repairs ?
>>>> I will start repairing a panel this weekend if I have the time and try
>>> some of the filler i have just to see how it works, I will glue in some
>>>> aluminum reinforcements with the 8115 anyways and the filler will not be
>>> used on anything critical or places it will be seen when I am done
>>>> --
>>>> 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green
>>> Machine,
>>>> And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name
>>> Dobbelt trøbbel
>>>> in Norway
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
For my money, the epoxies are far easier to mix (50/50) accurately, much
stronger, stick to almost anything, and dry more predictably than polyester
resins. I have occasional uses for them, and I have had issues with
polyester when they get a bit older in the can, not curing up quickly, or
setting off before I work them completely. Epoxies will work with anything
including carbon fiber. My choice anyway. Listen to Todd Sullivan, he makes
his living with that stuff.
Jim Hupy

> But, if you have a choice why use polyester instead of epoxy?
> We all know that epoxy is much stronger than polyester.
> Is it because you don’t want to pay the little bit more that epoxy costs?
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>

> >
> > They claim they have additives that allow the polyester to bond to SMC
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> The next question then is why a company sells polyester based fillers
> >>> for SMC repairs ?
> >>>> I will start repairing a panel this weekend if I have the time and try
> >>> some of the filler i have just to see how it works, I will glue in some
> >>>> aluminum reinforcements with the 8115 anyways and the filler will not
> be
> >>> used on anything critical or places it will be seen when I am done
> >>>> --
> >>>> 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green
> >>> Machine,
> >>>> And just sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name
> >>> Dobbelt trøbbel
> >>>> in Norway
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Why use polyester over epoxy? If I am after a cosmetic repair then filling in areas for cosmetic correction ONLY with epoxy will take longer to apply
and cure as well as sand to contour( at least the epoxys I have used) then you add to that the material cost difference which can be 5 times or more.
One of the challenges I encountered while restoring all of the damaged bodywork on The Pig was access. A lot of the areas I needed to repair I could
not access from the backside. In that situation I was forced to complete a structural repair at the same time as the cosmetic. The only means I could
come up with to accomplish this was to aggressively bevel the panel outward from the damage area and fill it with fiberglass sheet impregnated with
epoxy. If the damage is properly reinforced from behind with a suitable patch panel adhered with a suitable cross bonding adhesive (epoxy)any "bondo"
type product used to fill the front to final contour which is compatible with your chosen topcoat system will work just fine.
my 2c
--
Sully
77 Royale (The War Pig)
77 Eleganza 2 ( Recherché )
Seattle, wa
Future land speed record holder fully equipped motorhome (bucket list)