High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans.

[Bob Dunahugh]

Most owners will never even think of this. Or even know, or care. SURPRISE=
. I do, and have. These high winds carry the oil from the main, rod, and ca=
m bearings. To lube the cam shaft lobes, cam chain, and the distributor sha=
ft bearings. Then to cool the pistons. Our oil pans are very deep. As to ke=
ep the oil in the pan. From being picked up like the water on top of the =
waves on the ocean. We have 2 different situation going on inside our pan. =
1 We have an area in our pans at the front that keep suspended oil close to=
the crank. That can help cause oil to stay in suspention in the crankshaft=
area. 2 Then our oil pans have a windage baffle on the down wind side =
wall of the oil pan. ( But not a windage tray )To keep oil from being blow=
n up the side of the pan wall. And getting too much more excess oil splash =
in suspention to cool, and lube internal moving components. Again more reas=
ons that GM didn't put in high volume oil pumps. Of give the main/rod beari=
ngs more clearance. To start with. Many years ago. In an attempt to =
get more knowledge of the dynamics going on in the oil pan/crankcase. I bu=
ilt some engines that had Lexan panels built into them. Even put lights in =
there to improve visibility.To be able to see what was happening in the eng=
ine while in operation. Promise. Even at normal idle. The amount of oil in =
suspention is huge. I have one engine that it's idle is at 2200 rpm's. At 7=
to 8000 RPM's It's crazy. But that's another story. The reasons that I did=
this. Was to get a better understanding of lubrication at low. And in the =
very high RPM ranges. Plus. Where can I find a 1/4th of a ft pound of torq=
ue,or a pony. I'm not into thinking, or assuming things. Bob Dunahugh 78 R=
oyale.

 

[johnny]

If you were to supress it, how long would the engine live? Would it make a long term difference?

johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

 

[jim kanomata1]

> Most owners will never even think of this. Or even know, or care.
> SURPRISE. I do, and have. These high winds carry the oil from the main,
> rod, and cam bearings. To lube the cam shaft lobes, cam chain, and the
> distributor shaft bearings. Then to cool the pistons. Our oil pans are very
> deep. As to keep the oil in the pan. From being picked up like the water
> on top of the waves on the ocean. We have 2 different situation going on
> inside our pan. 1 We have an area in our pans at the front that keep
> suspended oil close to the crank. That can help cause oil to stay in
> suspention in the crankshaft area. 2 Then our oil pans have a windage
> baffle on the down wind side wall of the oil pan. ( But not a windage tray
> )To keep oil from being blown up the side of the pan wall. And getting too
> much more excess oil splash in suspention to cool, and lube internal moving
> components. Again more reasons that GM didn't put in high volume oil pumps.
> Of give the main/rod bearings more clearance. To start with.
> Many years ago. In an attempt to get more knowledge of the dynamics
> going on in the oil pan/crankcase. I built some engines that had Lexan
> panels built into them. Even put lights in there to improve visibility.To
> be able to see what was happening in the engine while in operation.
> Promise. Even at normal idle. The amount of oil in suspention is huge. I
> have one engine that it's idle is at 2200 rpm's. At 7 to 8000 RPM's It's
> crazy. But that's another story. The reasons that I did this. Was to get a
> better understanding of lubrication at low. And in the very high RPM
> ranges. Plus. Where can I find a 1/4th of a ft pound of torque,or a pony.
> I'm not into thinking, or assuming things. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>


--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

 

[Matt Colie]

>
> These high winds carry the oil from the main, rod, and cam bearings.
> To lube the cam shaft lobes, cam chain, and the distributor shaft bearings.

Nope, The cam lobes are oiled by the run back from the lash adjusters. The timing chain has an oil jet in the front of the right hand oil gallery and
the distributor is lubricated by another jet in the rear of the the left gallery. If you run the pump with the distributor out, you can see this one.
(If someone needs to get that plug out, I have a special tool.)

Quote:
> The to cool the pistons.

The Olds engines don't seem to have a specific feature to cool pistons and oil the bores, but the rod side clearance is larger than many other engines
and that can do just as well.

I only recently reassembled a 455 (461) and have recently had several apart.

Nearly 50 years ago we tried to do an experiment similar to what Bob did with only a little more success. We had that success because of the
professors that were mentoring us and the equipment available. That included a DC drive dynamometer, a variable speed pumps for to control the amount
of lubricating oil we had to deal with and high speed (for the day) photographic equipment.

Our big eye opener was the push rods. They don't stay anything like straight during operation.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[Bob Dunahugh]

Johnny. What do you mean, supress it. The wind in the crankcase? The wind =
can't be controlled. But it's affect as to having too much oil that's in =
suspention. So the baffle helps to keep the suspended oil under some contro=
l. Matt. I know about the orifice for the chain. Forgot the rear one. But t=
he suspened oil does contribute to lubrication. As to the cam lobes. Yapp.=
Grin. The oil that operates the internal lifter piston. That oil travel =
up the inside of the push rods. Lubing the rocker arm pivot. And the valve=
guides. Then flows along the lower valley of the head. That's next to the =
lower edge of the valve cover. This oil then travels to the oil pan by wa=
y of the drain holes in the head, and block. These passages are the ones t=
hat Mendillo says need to be enlarge at rebuild. Thus the cam lobe lube is =
mostly spray. And what leaks out between the lifter, and the lifter bore. =
Bob Dunahugh ________________________________ From: Bob Dunahugh =
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 12:18 PM To: gm=
clist Subject: High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans.=
Most owners will never even think of this. Or even know, or care. SU=
RPRISE. I do, and have. These high winds carry the oil from the main, rod, =
and cam bearings. To lube the cam shaft lobes, cam chain, and the distribut=
or shaft bearings. Then to cool the pistons. Our oil pans are very deep. As=
to keep the oil in the pan. From being picked up like the water on top o=
f the waves on the ocean. We have 2 different situation going on inside our=
pan. 1 We have an area in our pans at the front that keep suspended oil cl=
ose to the crank. That can help cause oil to stay in suspention in the cran=
kshaft area. 2 Then our oil pans have a windage baffle on the down wind=
side wall of the oil pan. ( But not a windage tray )To keep oil from bein=
g blown up the side of the pan wall. And getting too much more excess oil s=
plash in suspention to cool, and lube internal moving components. Again mor=
e reasons that GM didn't put in high volume oil pumps. Of give the main/rod=
bearings more clearance. To start with. Many years ago. In an attem=
pt to get more knowledge of the dynamics going on in the oil pan/crankcase.=
I built some engines that had Lexan panels built into them. Even put ligh=
ts in there to improve visibility.To be able to see what was happening in t=
he engine while in operation. Promise. Even at normal idle. The amount of o=
il in suspention is huge. I have one engine that it's idle is at 2200 rpm's=
. At 7 to 8000 RPM's It's crazy. But that's another story. The reasons that=
I did this. Was to get a better understanding of lubrication at low. And i=
n the very high RPM ranges. Plus. Where can I find a 1/4th of a ft pound o=
f torque,or a pony. I'm not into thinking, or assuming things. Bob Dunahug=
h 78 Royale.

 

[johnny]

I mean supress the fog of droplets. It's doable, though since it pretty much isn't done I figure it needs to be there. Which is why I asked an
Engine Person (yourself).

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased