This was in one of the RV newsgroups, so I'm passing it on . . .
Subject:
Cold weather RV'ing
Date:
11 Nov 1997 01:29:32 GMT
From:
Organization:
HookUp Communication Corporation, Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Newsgroups:
rec.outdoors.rv-travel
The following is an article I wrote and had published in the RV Times (a
local British Columbia, Canada, RV'ers magazine). I hope it will be of
interest to the readers of this newsgroup and welcome any
comments/questions.
Sheila Jones Publishing Ltd.
PO Box 160,
Qualicum Beach, B.C.
V9K 1S7
Re: Can you winter in BC in an RV ? (Year 9,Issue 48,Dec 95,pg 7)
Reply to:
John & Liz Paxton,
Wintering in an RV in BC is possible with adequate preparations,
iron-willed fortitude and a good sense of humor. My wife and I have
survived three winters (Kamloops 2, Vernon 1) and have several
suggestions
for you:
Skirting - essential - we have used 2" styrofoam 4 X 8 sheets cut to fit
between ground and trailer and screwed them to a 2" X 2" strip that is
hung
on brackets fastened below the trailer walls. With this method you get
lots
of fun and exercise collecting the various pieces of styrofoam that are
scattered all over the campsite after a windstorm. We now cover the
insulation with 1/4" OSB (oriented strand board) that is waterproof and
inexpensive. However, if you move to a new location chances are the
custom
fitted pieces will no longer fit. Probably a better long-term solution
would be that quilted vinyl material cut to fit generously, with snaps
to
fasten to the RV sides. Come spring you would simply unsnap, roll up and
store until next year.
Holding tanks - as our tanks hang below the floor and between the tandem
wheels of our trailer a permanent enclosure is not practical. There are
heating panels available that you can attach to the tanks that are
electrically powered (120v or 12v). I just use fiberglass batting to
build
a "cave" surrounding the tanks and including the dump valves. A small 40
watt light bulb supplies enough heat in any weather we've encountered to
keep things flowing.
Dump Valves - ALWAYS keep your blackwater valve closed and only dump
when
full. If left open the liquids will drain off leaving only the solids
(they
become very solid after a short period of time). In cold weather we
close
both valves and dump when full as a trickle of grey water can freeze and
build up a dam in the sewer line totally blocking the flow.
Sewer Line - the coiled plastic hoses are best kept in their storage
space
in the winter. Just one frosty night and they are brittle and full of
cracks. Buy 3" PVC solid sewer pipe that has one flared end ($7.50 for a
10
ft. length), cut a 1 foot length of your plastic hose leaving the
trailer
connection in place and insert the other end into the flared end of the
pipe and tape securely. Cut the pipe with a hacksaw to the correct
length
to reach your sewer dump and then install an elbow fitting on that end.
Insulate the whole thing with fiberglass batting (15" wide will wrap
around
the pipe nicely) and cover this with poly sheeting taped in place. This
all
may seem a bit of an inconvenience but try dealing with a 12' long
"poopsickle" at 20 below zero some night for comparison.
Water Connection - install a heat tape the same length as your hose by
taping it to the hose barbershop pole fashion. The instructions say to
put
the thermostat on the coldest part of the hose, but since that part is
not
heated it will be sure to freeze. I leave the thermostat just hanging
out
in the air and have never had a problem using that method. Cover the
hose
and the heat tape with those insulating foam tubes for pipes and tape
securely. Where the water supply enters the trailer wrap some fiberglass
batting around the hose, cover with plastic and tape to hold it on. We
keep
our on-board fresh water tank full just in case all these measures fail.
Good luck and pray that you have water in the morning.
Condensation Problems - during extremely cold weather, water vapor will
collect and freeze on the cold metal skin directly above your overhead
lights where the insulation has been cut away at the factory. When you
turn
on the lights, the heat generated melts this condensation, causing more
grey hairs to appear on your head. Pull off every overhead fixture and
stuff the hole in the ceiling panel with insulation.
Roof Vents - make a box 18" X 18" X 12" high to place over every roof
vent.
Drill three 1" holes in both sides of the box to allow for air
circulation.
Leave your roof vents open about 1" at all times to vent excess
moisture.
The box helps to keep cold air from cascading down through the vent.
Try
this - it works.
Storm Windows - unless you want to view Jack Frost's creations in all
their
drippy splendor, you should install storm windows of some sort. Ours are
sheets of plexi-glass cut to fit each window that install on the inside
with plastic L-brackets every foot or so. Foam tape supplies a seal to
the
window frame. Plastic storm windows that you heat shrink into place work
well, too, although the tape used can be messy to remove. If you leave
them
in place all through the year, the heat in the summer will make them
brittle and explode them.
Storm Door(s) - most RV doors have little or no insulation in them and
are
a prime heat loss area. Also the aluminum frame conducts the cold into
the
unit whereupon the moist inside air condenses to form frosty strips down
the wall. Our solution is a door blanket, made of a nylon quilted
material
similar to a sleeping bag, that snaps on over the opening at night.
Inside Plumping - through necessity (and just to generally make life
miserable) inside plumbing pipes are routed through the most
inaccessible
parts of the RV and that is exactly where they will freeze first.
Merphy's
Law. Insulating foam tubes are fairly inexpensive and will help here.
RV Coach Battery - take care to check your coach battery regularly in
the
winter months - you are using your 12v lights, furnace, etc. more than
usual, and your converter may or may not be keeping up to peak demands.
Your battery fills in on those occasions, then gets recharged. That
means
more water loss and more wear and tear on this often neglected device. A
discharged battery will freeze easily and at a higher temperature than
a
fully charged one.
Propane Heating - When heating our 31 foot travel trailer (insulated
skirting installed) with propane, we used about 60 liters/week during
colder weather(0 to -20 degrees). Since prices vary from area to area
and
sometimes day to day in the same area, you'll have to multiply this
figure
by the current price per liter in your area. During that time there was
a
price war going on and we were getting our propane in 100 lb cylinders
for
9.9 cents/liter.(9.9 X 60 liters/week = $5.94/week Heating costs). This
year, in this area, propane costs $.34/liter (.38 X 60 = $22.80/week)
Quite
a difference ! If you have a 'fiver with heated basement, 2 furnaces,
etc.
you could probably double these figures for a more accurate estimate.
Electric Heating - since the costs of hydro are included in our site
rental
at this particular RV park we use two 1500 watt ceramic mini heaters
with
our propane furnace backing them up on cold days.
Costs could be calculated as follows:
2 heaters at 1500 watts =3000 watts
24 hours at 3000 watts = 72 Kilowatt hours
72 Kwhrs at $.08/hour = $5.76/day
$5.76/day X 30 days = $172.80/month
Winter Rates - to give you a general idea of monthly rates we have
wintered
at 4 different parks with and without hydro included:
Park 1: $275/mo /hydro included/phone hookups/no cable tv (1992)
Park 2: $350/mo /hydro included/phone hookups/cable tv incl (1993)
Park 3: $265/mo /hydro not incl/phone hookups/cable tv incl (1994)
Park 4: $315/mo /hydro included/phone hookups/no cable tv (1995)
Phone - Every RV park that we have wintered in have had phone hookups
available at their monthly sites. Cost to hookup is $25 to $30
hereabouts.
As my main winter pastime is computing and messaging with other computer
people (sometimes worldwide) a phone line is essential to me. (more
about
this in a future article perhaps)
Snow Shovels - don't even think about buying one ! The reason we are
living
in an RV in the first place is to get away from all that lawn mowing,
painting ,landscaping, property tax-paying kind of mind-set. If the snow
gets too deep to kick away with your boots then -hook'er up, head'er
south.
Hope this information is a help to you;
Regards,
Les Doll, Kamloops B.C.
Ol' Jim, hisself
Jim and Ana Wallace Enjoyin' the Space Coast of Florida
hisself http://ddi.digital.net/~hisself
Subject:
Cold weather RV'ing
Date:
11 Nov 1997 01:29:32 GMT
From:
Organization:
HookUp Communication Corporation, Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Newsgroups:
rec.outdoors.rv-travel
The following is an article I wrote and had published in the RV Times (a
local British Columbia, Canada, RV'ers magazine). I hope it will be of
interest to the readers of this newsgroup and welcome any
comments/questions.
Sheila Jones Publishing Ltd.
PO Box 160,
Qualicum Beach, B.C.
V9K 1S7
Re: Can you winter in BC in an RV ? (Year 9,Issue 48,Dec 95,pg 7)
Reply to:
John & Liz Paxton,
Wintering in an RV in BC is possible with adequate preparations,
iron-willed fortitude and a good sense of humor. My wife and I have
survived three winters (Kamloops 2, Vernon 1) and have several
suggestions
for you:
Skirting - essential - we have used 2" styrofoam 4 X 8 sheets cut to fit
between ground and trailer and screwed them to a 2" X 2" strip that is
hung
on brackets fastened below the trailer walls. With this method you get
lots
of fun and exercise collecting the various pieces of styrofoam that are
scattered all over the campsite after a windstorm. We now cover the
insulation with 1/4" OSB (oriented strand board) that is waterproof and
inexpensive. However, if you move to a new location chances are the
custom
fitted pieces will no longer fit. Probably a better long-term solution
would be that quilted vinyl material cut to fit generously, with snaps
to
fasten to the RV sides. Come spring you would simply unsnap, roll up and
store until next year.
Holding tanks - as our tanks hang below the floor and between the tandem
wheels of our trailer a permanent enclosure is not practical. There are
heating panels available that you can attach to the tanks that are
electrically powered (120v or 12v). I just use fiberglass batting to
build
a "cave" surrounding the tanks and including the dump valves. A small 40
watt light bulb supplies enough heat in any weather we've encountered to
keep things flowing.
Dump Valves - ALWAYS keep your blackwater valve closed and only dump
when
full. If left open the liquids will drain off leaving only the solids
(they
become very solid after a short period of time). In cold weather we
close
both valves and dump when full as a trickle of grey water can freeze and
build up a dam in the sewer line totally blocking the flow.
Sewer Line - the coiled plastic hoses are best kept in their storage
space
in the winter. Just one frosty night and they are brittle and full of
cracks. Buy 3" PVC solid sewer pipe that has one flared end ($7.50 for a
10
ft. length), cut a 1 foot length of your plastic hose leaving the
trailer
connection in place and insert the other end into the flared end of the
pipe and tape securely. Cut the pipe with a hacksaw to the correct
length
to reach your sewer dump and then install an elbow fitting on that end.
Insulate the whole thing with fiberglass batting (15" wide will wrap
around
the pipe nicely) and cover this with poly sheeting taped in place. This
all
may seem a bit of an inconvenience but try dealing with a 12' long
"poopsickle" at 20 below zero some night for comparison.
Water Connection - install a heat tape the same length as your hose by
taping it to the hose barbershop pole fashion. The instructions say to
put
the thermostat on the coldest part of the hose, but since that part is
not
heated it will be sure to freeze. I leave the thermostat just hanging
out
in the air and have never had a problem using that method. Cover the
hose
and the heat tape with those insulating foam tubes for pipes and tape
securely. Where the water supply enters the trailer wrap some fiberglass
batting around the hose, cover with plastic and tape to hold it on. We
keep
our on-board fresh water tank full just in case all these measures fail.
Good luck and pray that you have water in the morning.
Condensation Problems - during extremely cold weather, water vapor will
collect and freeze on the cold metal skin directly above your overhead
lights where the insulation has been cut away at the factory. When you
turn
on the lights, the heat generated melts this condensation, causing more
grey hairs to appear on your head. Pull off every overhead fixture and
stuff the hole in the ceiling panel with insulation.
Roof Vents - make a box 18" X 18" X 12" high to place over every roof
vent.
Drill three 1" holes in both sides of the box to allow for air
circulation.
Leave your roof vents open about 1" at all times to vent excess
moisture.
The box helps to keep cold air from cascading down through the vent.
Try
this - it works.
Storm Windows - unless you want to view Jack Frost's creations in all
their
drippy splendor, you should install storm windows of some sort. Ours are
sheets of plexi-glass cut to fit each window that install on the inside
with plastic L-brackets every foot or so. Foam tape supplies a seal to
the
window frame. Plastic storm windows that you heat shrink into place work
well, too, although the tape used can be messy to remove. If you leave
them
in place all through the year, the heat in the summer will make them
brittle and explode them.
Storm Door(s) - most RV doors have little or no insulation in them and
are
a prime heat loss area. Also the aluminum frame conducts the cold into
the
unit whereupon the moist inside air condenses to form frosty strips down
the wall. Our solution is a door blanket, made of a nylon quilted
material
similar to a sleeping bag, that snaps on over the opening at night.
Inside Plumping - through necessity (and just to generally make life
miserable) inside plumbing pipes are routed through the most
inaccessible
parts of the RV and that is exactly where they will freeze first.
Merphy's
Law. Insulating foam tubes are fairly inexpensive and will help here.
RV Coach Battery - take care to check your coach battery regularly in
the
winter months - you are using your 12v lights, furnace, etc. more than
usual, and your converter may or may not be keeping up to peak demands.
Your battery fills in on those occasions, then gets recharged. That
means
more water loss and more wear and tear on this often neglected device. A
discharged battery will freeze easily and at a higher temperature than
a
fully charged one.
Propane Heating - When heating our 31 foot travel trailer (insulated
skirting installed) with propane, we used about 60 liters/week during
colder weather(0 to -20 degrees). Since prices vary from area to area
and
sometimes day to day in the same area, you'll have to multiply this
figure
by the current price per liter in your area. During that time there was
a
price war going on and we were getting our propane in 100 lb cylinders
for
9.9 cents/liter.(9.9 X 60 liters/week = $5.94/week Heating costs). This
year, in this area, propane costs $.34/liter (.38 X 60 = $22.80/week)
Quite
a difference ! If you have a 'fiver with heated basement, 2 furnaces,
etc.
you could probably double these figures for a more accurate estimate.
Electric Heating - since the costs of hydro are included in our site
rental
at this particular RV park we use two 1500 watt ceramic mini heaters
with
our propane furnace backing them up on cold days.
Costs could be calculated as follows:
2 heaters at 1500 watts =3000 watts
24 hours at 3000 watts = 72 Kilowatt hours
72 Kwhrs at $.08/hour = $5.76/day
$5.76/day X 30 days = $172.80/month
Winter Rates - to give you a general idea of monthly rates we have
wintered
at 4 different parks with and without hydro included:
Park 1: $275/mo /hydro included/phone hookups/no cable tv (1992)
Park 2: $350/mo /hydro included/phone hookups/cable tv incl (1993)
Park 3: $265/mo /hydro not incl/phone hookups/cable tv incl (1994)
Park 4: $315/mo /hydro included/phone hookups/no cable tv (1995)
Phone - Every RV park that we have wintered in have had phone hookups
available at their monthly sites. Cost to hookup is $25 to $30
hereabouts.
As my main winter pastime is computing and messaging with other computer
people (sometimes worldwide) a phone line is essential to me. (more
about
this in a future article perhaps)
Snow Shovels - don't even think about buying one ! The reason we are
living
in an RV in the first place is to get away from all that lawn mowing,
painting ,landscaping, property tax-paying kind of mind-set. If the snow
gets too deep to kick away with your boots then -hook'er up, head'er
south.
Hope this information is a help to you;
Regards,
Les Doll, Kamloops B.C.
Ol' Jim, hisself
Jim and Ana Wallace Enjoyin' the Space Coast of Florida
hisself http://ddi.digital.net/~hisself
