(Kinda long, so scroll to the bottom to
bypass the philosophy and if you can help
me with a couple of questions)
I'm going to weigh in (although not too
heavily) on the issues of fear, doom and
gloom, etc.
To those on this mailing list who are "old
hands" with the GMC, I am certainly a
"newbie". I will have owned mine now
for one year come Labor Day. I have
shared with you my experiences in finding,
purchasing, and getting my Glacier
home to Southern California from New
York. I've shared with you my travel
experience to Houston and back last
Christmas. I've asked a few questions,
and offered a few bits of information
gathered from my experiences that might
have been helpful to someone.
My perception is that the continuum of
owners/drivers/enthusiasts/enthusiastic
non-owners out there is one of widely
varying levels of interest, skill, knowledge,
expectations, and opportunity. I also
believe that the brain trust or "tribal
knowledge" contained in this continuum is
the single most valuable and dependable
asset we have, notwithstanding any
particular "posting style". I would not
discourage this exchange or the freely
expressed opinions, experiences, advice,
or comments with regard to the specific
intent and topic of this mailing list.
Personality clashes? Well, take care of
that as you will.
As to instilling or inviting fear, in my case I
would prefer to characterize it as
"cautious attention". There are things
of which one should always be mindful.
Complacency could cost a lot. Those of
you who fly (or who have flown) in the
left seat have that mentality or you
wouldn't be here today. I'll bet some of
you read every AD you see even if doesn't
apply to your airplane. I know I used to.
(Can't afford to fly any more . . .) I think
that a _total_ body of knowledge is far
greater than any single part, or any sum of
parts less than the whole.
I think fear gets in the mix as a natural
result of our human tendency to
inadequately process the whole body of
knowledge without allowing ourselves time
to deliberate and evaluate our specific
situation within the framework of the
whole body, especially when presented
with new knowledge. Kind of a long way to
get to "Just stop and think." Use the
knowledge you have to evaluate the new
knowledge; reflect, deliberate, and come
to a conclusion. I believe this group
provides not only a source for knowledge,
but thinking by proxy. None of us can
know it all, none of us will ever experience
it all. But I think you statisticians out there
will agree, the sample size here is large
enough to say that collectively the area
under the curve is pretty well shaded in.
As to Arch's fears -- Arch, all I can say is I
have nothing but admiration for you. You
should be the most fearless among us. To
take a basic wreck and bring it to life, and
actually have both the confidence in your
own work and the work of your trusted
associates, _and_ the boldness to
actually take your coach out on the road
for an extended trip, is not a expression of
fear. It doesn't get any better than that.
My hat is off to you, sir. And to everyone
else who have such wonderful facilities to
work in, with tools, and friends to help,
who are bringing these machines back to
life, restoring them, finding weaknesses,
making them stronger and better -- well,
it's awesome.
At this very moment I'm a little fearful.
After breaking a torsion bar last December
in Texas (at 65 mph, loaded with family
and holiday gifts bound for League City,
and with freeway traffic bearing down on
us), I'm a little concerned about venturing
out too far. But every day or so I just go
to the storage facility, check things over,
make sure I don't see anything untoward,
drive around a little, listen for strange
noises, and just generally get my
confidence back. When I think that if that
torsion bar had broken just a little
differently -- no, I don't want to think about
it. The positive side was that the members
of this mailing list came to our instant
rescue, and I learned something about my
GMC that perhaps a few others will never
learn (or have a need to learn) -- how to
change a torsion bar. There are a lot of
other things I don't know how to do, but
that is not one of them. If any of you are
travelling here is SoCal and break a
torsion bar, give me a call. I can help : )
My fear is the result of an actual
experience, not one I read about.
That doesn't make it more or less valid
than an anecdotal one, but weights the
scale a little more on the "cautious"
side of "cautious attention."
There may be a number of mailing list
subscribers who are working on coaches
that suffer from non- or under-use. Mine
had been in storage for several years. I
believe that not using a machine can be
more damaging and deteriorative than
using it regularly. I'm also finding that
the more I drive mine (and the more often)
the better it gets. Things just seem to be
working themselves in. I even think my fan
clutch is working better. It was 105
degrees here yesterday afternoon, and
my temp gauge never got above 1/3 mark,
even idling. Before it would go to 2/3 mark
in 10 minutes of idling in 65 degrees
ambient. Can't explain it -- just know it's
happening. Brake adjusters are working
better (actually, I think maybe I've tried the
backing up adjustment technique too many
times . . . ) Perhaps the reason many of
us are experiencing "failures" is less
because of inherent design flaws or
engineering deficiencies, than just plain
old lack of use for many years. Trying to
wake these machines up is, in some
cases, a monumental task. Maybe just
patience and "cautious attention" could
substitute for fear.
And keep the tech talk coming. I'm
compiling my own database of part
numbers, substitutions, tips, sources,
techniques, and contacts, and the tech
exchange is a great source. I know lots of
folks aren't interested in the tech, but then
again, lots of folks probably aren't
interested in domino sets or rallies they
can't attend. But all of it is valuable.
Okay, now on to a couple of questions I
need a little help with:
1. Control arm reinforcement. I looked at
Gene's photos of the lower control arm
reinforcement, but am a little confused. Is
the reinforcement that needs to be done to
Toronado control arms the 3- or 4-inch
long bit of metal that sort of wraps around
the side and bottom of the control arm?
Are there drawings or something that
actually call out the requirement for this?
2. Backing plate reinforcement (not
another "brake" topic . . .) It is said that
the backing plates from the Eldorado
that can be used for the rear disc
conversion require "reinforcement". I can't
find anywhere just exactly what and
where this reinforcement is, and the
requirements for it. Are there drawings or
some kind of illustration somewhere
that detail this? On the same topic, it is
said that these backing plates require
"notching" to clear the swing arm. Is
there a drawing or illustration somewhere
that details this? I have mine (backing
plates) all ready for machining, and
I'd like to have all the work done at one
time. (Paul Bartz, perhaps you or your
friends who have done this particular
conversion might be able to help (?))
3. (Well, I had a third question. Just don't
remember what it was . . .)
Thanks for any and all help.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
bypass the philosophy and if you can help
me with a couple of questions)
I'm going to weigh in (although not too
heavily) on the issues of fear, doom and
gloom, etc.
To those on this mailing list who are "old
hands" with the GMC, I am certainly a
"newbie". I will have owned mine now
for one year come Labor Day. I have
shared with you my experiences in finding,
purchasing, and getting my Glacier
home to Southern California from New
York. I've shared with you my travel
experience to Houston and back last
Christmas. I've asked a few questions,
and offered a few bits of information
gathered from my experiences that might
have been helpful to someone.
My perception is that the continuum of
owners/drivers/enthusiasts/enthusiastic
non-owners out there is one of widely
varying levels of interest, skill, knowledge,
expectations, and opportunity. I also
believe that the brain trust or "tribal
knowledge" contained in this continuum is
the single most valuable and dependable
asset we have, notwithstanding any
particular "posting style". I would not
discourage this exchange or the freely
expressed opinions, experiences, advice,
or comments with regard to the specific
intent and topic of this mailing list.
Personality clashes? Well, take care of
that as you will.
As to instilling or inviting fear, in my case I
would prefer to characterize it as
"cautious attention". There are things
of which one should always be mindful.
Complacency could cost a lot. Those of
you who fly (or who have flown) in the
left seat have that mentality or you
wouldn't be here today. I'll bet some of
you read every AD you see even if doesn't
apply to your airplane. I know I used to.
(Can't afford to fly any more . . .) I think
that a _total_ body of knowledge is far
greater than any single part, or any sum of
parts less than the whole.
I think fear gets in the mix as a natural
result of our human tendency to
inadequately process the whole body of
knowledge without allowing ourselves time
to deliberate and evaluate our specific
situation within the framework of the
whole body, especially when presented
with new knowledge. Kind of a long way to
get to "Just stop and think." Use the
knowledge you have to evaluate the new
knowledge; reflect, deliberate, and come
to a conclusion. I believe this group
provides not only a source for knowledge,
but thinking by proxy. None of us can
know it all, none of us will ever experience
it all. But I think you statisticians out there
will agree, the sample size here is large
enough to say that collectively the area
under the curve is pretty well shaded in.
As to Arch's fears -- Arch, all I can say is I
have nothing but admiration for you. You
should be the most fearless among us. To
take a basic wreck and bring it to life, and
actually have both the confidence in your
own work and the work of your trusted
associates, _and_ the boldness to
actually take your coach out on the road
for an extended trip, is not a expression of
fear. It doesn't get any better than that.
My hat is off to you, sir. And to everyone
else who have such wonderful facilities to
work in, with tools, and friends to help,
who are bringing these machines back to
life, restoring them, finding weaknesses,
making them stronger and better -- well,
it's awesome.
At this very moment I'm a little fearful.
After breaking a torsion bar last December
in Texas (at 65 mph, loaded with family
and holiday gifts bound for League City,
and with freeway traffic bearing down on
us), I'm a little concerned about venturing
out too far. But every day or so I just go
to the storage facility, check things over,
make sure I don't see anything untoward,
drive around a little, listen for strange
noises, and just generally get my
confidence back. When I think that if that
torsion bar had broken just a little
differently -- no, I don't want to think about
it. The positive side was that the members
of this mailing list came to our instant
rescue, and I learned something about my
GMC that perhaps a few others will never
learn (or have a need to learn) -- how to
change a torsion bar. There are a lot of
other things I don't know how to do, but
that is not one of them. If any of you are
travelling here is SoCal and break a
torsion bar, give me a call. I can help : )
My fear is the result of an actual
experience, not one I read about.
That doesn't make it more or less valid
than an anecdotal one, but weights the
scale a little more on the "cautious"
side of "cautious attention."
There may be a number of mailing list
subscribers who are working on coaches
that suffer from non- or under-use. Mine
had been in storage for several years. I
believe that not using a machine can be
more damaging and deteriorative than
using it regularly. I'm also finding that
the more I drive mine (and the more often)
the better it gets. Things just seem to be
working themselves in. I even think my fan
clutch is working better. It was 105
degrees here yesterday afternoon, and
my temp gauge never got above 1/3 mark,
even idling. Before it would go to 2/3 mark
in 10 minutes of idling in 65 degrees
ambient. Can't explain it -- just know it's
happening. Brake adjusters are working
better (actually, I think maybe I've tried the
backing up adjustment technique too many
times . . . ) Perhaps the reason many of
us are experiencing "failures" is less
because of inherent design flaws or
engineering deficiencies, than just plain
old lack of use for many years. Trying to
wake these machines up is, in some
cases, a monumental task. Maybe just
patience and "cautious attention" could
substitute for fear.
And keep the tech talk coming. I'm
compiling my own database of part
numbers, substitutions, tips, sources,
techniques, and contacts, and the tech
exchange is a great source. I know lots of
folks aren't interested in the tech, but then
again, lots of folks probably aren't
interested in domino sets or rallies they
can't attend. But all of it is valuable.
Okay, now on to a couple of questions I
need a little help with:
1. Control arm reinforcement. I looked at
Gene's photos of the lower control arm
reinforcement, but am a little confused. Is
the reinforcement that needs to be done to
Toronado control arms the 3- or 4-inch
long bit of metal that sort of wraps around
the side and bottom of the control arm?
Are there drawings or something that
actually call out the requirement for this?
2. Backing plate reinforcement (not
another "brake" topic . . .) It is said that
the backing plates from the Eldorado
that can be used for the rear disc
conversion require "reinforcement". I can't
find anywhere just exactly what and
where this reinforcement is, and the
requirements for it. Are there drawings or
some kind of illustration somewhere
that detail this? On the same topic, it is
said that these backing plates require
"notching" to clear the swing arm. Is
there a drawing or illustration somewhere
that details this? I have mine (backing
plates) all ready for machining, and
I'd like to have all the work done at one
time. (Paul Bartz, perhaps you or your
friends who have done this particular
conversion might be able to help (?))
3. (Well, I had a third question. Just don't
remember what it was . . .)
Thanks for any and all help.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
