Darren Wrote
I am not sure that a real test is possible. Too many variables. Age of the
system, strength of the leg pushing the pedal, Quality of the components
are all
factors which couldn't be worked into the formula. Experience of the driver
and
their ability to an "impending lockup" stop. The same driver would have to
all
the tests on the same roadway in the same weather conditions at the same
time of
day with the same coach and all the different possibilities of
configurations
for the brakes. Although some systems may be easier to stop with I don't
think
that makes it a better system: just different. I would think an expert
driver
could stop there well maintained oem system as well as someone with 6 discs
and
metallic pads and whatever else you can come up with. Maybe ABS would be an
improvement but an OEM system is still a good system. I would agree that
weight
plays a major overriding factor. If your coach is 13 or 14000 lbs this will
significantly increase your stopping distance from one that is under 10000
lbs.
Wasn't there some talk about recording the braking performance of our
coaches with different brake setups? If there wasn't, perhaps there should
be. I know there are numerous non-brake variables that will affect
stopping
distances (I suppose weight being the greatest) but irrespective of them,
I'd like to see some real world test results. Despite all the theories,
formulas, and opinions that get thrown around, the only thing that matters
is HOW FAST YOU STOP. Perhaps two stops, one from 30mph and one from
60mph.
Maybe the number of hard stops from 45mph until brake fade - to simulate
hilly conditions. I don't know. I'm not an engineer - I'm not even a
conductor - but I bet somebody here could come up with a good test. Any
thoughts?
Roy:
You are probably referring to a thread that I brought up about a year ago
when there was a discussion of the pros and cons of disk vs the JA (Jim
Anstett) system. I have installed the JA system on mine and I'm quite
impressed. Most of the people who have done the disk brake change over feel
the same. A lot of people felt the same as Darren that brake testing was of
questionable worth due to the wide range of variables. Others felt that the
tests would put unnecessary stress on their rigs. My position is that it
would be a great idea, as long as people included their rig weights in the
results. Although the testing would be far from perfect, it would begin to
give us some parameters with which to compare systems. We may even find
some consistent patterns despite the differences in testing conditions. My
feeling is that two tests should be done on the flat. Full stops from 30
mph and 60 mph (although the 60 mph test may be too dangerous; perhaps 30 &
45 instead). The first test with cold drums/rotors. The 2nd with them hot
(maybe after 10 stops from 30 mph).
Any thoughts people?
Vic Marks
75 Transmode
I am not sure that a real test is possible. Too many variables. Age of the
system, strength of the leg pushing the pedal, Quality of the components
are all
factors which couldn't be worked into the formula. Experience of the driver
and
their ability to an "impending lockup" stop. The same driver would have to
all
the tests on the same roadway in the same weather conditions at the same
time of
day with the same coach and all the different possibilities of
configurations
for the brakes. Although some systems may be easier to stop with I don't
think
that makes it a better system: just different. I would think an expert
driver
could stop there well maintained oem system as well as someone with 6 discs
and
metallic pads and whatever else you can come up with. Maybe ABS would be an
improvement but an OEM system is still a good system. I would agree that
weight
plays a major overriding factor. If your coach is 13 or 14000 lbs this will
significantly increase your stopping distance from one that is under 10000
lbs.
Wasn't there some talk about recording the braking performance of our
coaches with different brake setups? If there wasn't, perhaps there should
be. I know there are numerous non-brake variables that will affect
stopping
distances (I suppose weight being the greatest) but irrespective of them,
I'd like to see some real world test results. Despite all the theories,
formulas, and opinions that get thrown around, the only thing that matters
is HOW FAST YOU STOP. Perhaps two stops, one from 30mph and one from
60mph.
Maybe the number of hard stops from 45mph until brake fade - to simulate
hilly conditions. I don't know. I'm not an engineer - I'm not even a
conductor - but I bet somebody here could come up with a good test. Any
thoughts?
Roy:
You are probably referring to a thread that I brought up about a year ago
when there was a discussion of the pros and cons of disk vs the JA (Jim
Anstett) system. I have installed the JA system on mine and I'm quite
impressed. Most of the people who have done the disk brake change over feel
the same. A lot of people felt the same as Darren that brake testing was of
questionable worth due to the wide range of variables. Others felt that the
tests would put unnecessary stress on their rigs. My position is that it
would be a great idea, as long as people included their rig weights in the
results. Although the testing would be far from perfect, it would begin to
give us some parameters with which to compare systems. We may even find
some consistent patterns despite the differences in testing conditions. My
feeling is that two tests should be done on the flat. Full stops from 30
mph and 60 mph (although the 60 mph test may be too dangerous; perhaps 30 &
45 instead). The first test with cold drums/rotors. The 2nd with them hot
(maybe after 10 stops from 30 mph).
Any thoughts people?
Vic Marks
75 Transmode
