Birchy [In Progress]

pdxbirchy

Active member
Nov 11, 2020
159
49
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Lake Oswego, OR
www.caffelli.com
Hey all, so I figured it was only proper to show what we are doing with our 1976 23' Birchaven, aka 'Birchy'. I've posted a handful of questions on components I am trying to learn about, and you all have been so great. I hope to return the favor, someday. Background on our family; we are a young family in the Portland, OR area. I am a designer by trade, and though I stay mostly on the digital side of things I can't help but take an interest in making things as cool as possible. This is what is happening right now. It seems like a two steps forward, one step back sort of deal, but she is going to be amazing. I will keep updating this thread as we continue.

I have some open questions on some gremlins I'm trying to sort out. Thank you in advance!
 

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In that side view of the coach, are you aware that the rear end is sitting high? When it's calibrated according to the repair manual (available from bdub.net), it sits slightly lower than the front to provide optimum handling.
 
In that side view of the coach, are you aware that the rear end is sitting high? When it's calibrated according to the repair manual (available from bdub.net), it sits slightly lower than the front to provide optimum handling.

That's really good to know! I'm a bit confused on the psi. The gauges say approximately 80 now and it looks almost this high. The bag looks original I had thought, too.... But maybe this is part of my air leak mystery. PXL_20201216_042612328.webp
 
That's really good to know! I'm a bit confused on the psi. The gauges say approximately 80 now and it looks almost this high. The bag looks original I had thought, too.... But maybe this is part of my air leak mystery. View attachment 3750
Yeah, so spend some time with the operator's manual and the repair manual. Ride height, not pressure, is the goal. Pressure will vary based on loading (weight) and airbag type.
 
OK Marcelo, Hang on Tight.....

What you have is a "Rear Bath Birch". Some find this a very desirable version. Be sure that any modifications you make actually make it better. Please add that note to the sigfile as it matters a lot. Birches are very different and some things matter a lot.

I do hope someone advised you that a reliable and ready travel GMC will cost you about 30K$us. What does not get said enough is that this is all at once, or as a kit and sweat gets billed in at full shop rate. Places that will work on her are probably getting 100+$us/hour out there. With that kind of cost, you should consider buying any tools you might need and just expect that they will amortize in short order. Besides, if you do the work, you know it got done right, or at least you know how to do it again.

If you do not have a maintenance log, start one. If you do this right, before very long at all, this will all be a blur. Vehicles of this period all required regular maintenance to stay reliable. She can be reliable, you will hear of many that do extended excursions with no issues. If you do this log in digital, be sure that there is an accessible cloud back-up. I also have another list that I like a lot. Chaumière Needs is a six part list. First is "Needed Now", things that have priority and need attention. Second is "Winter Jobs" are the things that will happen when she is not busy going places. Third is "Waiting" things that have low priority but I don't want to forget. The Fourth "Deferred" just makes them lower priority (May it need materials I have to buy).
is "Abandon" those thing I thought we be good but now have doubts are of any value, but I don't want to forget about. The last is a fun one. It is "Done". This is good because went something is done, add a date and move it here and it is very rewarding to look at the growing done list. This you can keep in digital as it won't matter if it gets lost.

The Airsprings are not nearly stock. From the bit of the picture, they look like Ferrara bags. Many people are happy with them. As Christo said, air pressure means nothing. This is particularly true of a light (yours is) 23 coach. If you are doing longer runs, leave the valves open and left the system work. You are carrying nearly 300# of potable water that moves forward with flushes, and about the same weight in fuel that will be gone in about 400 miles. All of this upsets the coach fore-aft trim and can lead to handling issues that you will not be able to identify until you have several thousand miles under you.

Being a rear bath, makes the potable tank more difficult to remove- IIRC. So, I am going to suggest that you get under the coach (NEVER get under it when it is not blocked up) and poke at the area you think may be a problem with something sharp and try to ascertain just how bad the flooring is. You may find that it is different than you thought.

About being under the coach. As said above, do not unless it is blocked or something. When the rear suspension fails. the back of the coach can crush a snake. Really, if you ever see this happen, it is scary.

If you do not have all the owner's and service documentation, you should. It can all be downloaded at GMCMI.com. Or, you can join GMCMI and you will get, that on a thumbdrive and the magazine and other good stuff. You should also look up Cascaders and Western States and join up with them. Next year's fall international is planned for Rapid City. Make plans now. When you get there, be very ready. I have been told by others that I got to go there that being at an International for the first time is a lot like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose. A Western States in much the same, but I have only been to one of those (so far).

There are two forums, and they are both very good. This is the newer one, and has mostly newer owners. The older one (GMCnet) was started as a e-mail group in the early 80's and has a forum as a mirror of that group and so it can be difficult at times. That is were the long time owners write. Some are original owners and many have worn out a coach or two. There is also considerable coverage on Facebook. Do Not Take any advice there on presumption of accuracy. I have seen at least two coaches end up as scrap because the owner took bad advice.

About batteries (before I forget),disconnect the rear one and see if the generator (APU) cranks. If it does not, then that is what that battery does.

About the coach, it is much more than a big new toy. The most important thing is the community it connects you to.... Between here and the other forum, you just collected a couple of thousand new old friends. This community can be off-putting until you realize that most everybody here has a not so secret agenda. That agenda is to see to it that you get to enjoy both the coach and what it can do for you. We all know. It is a community of supportive and helping people the like of which you most likely have never experienced. Let it work for you. There is an amazing resource that is waiting at these forums and the local owners groups. When I discovered this I knew what to think. It is very much like the community of watermen that are my world. For this reason, (and because I now have a name), I like to welcome new owners much as you might be welcomed there. So,

May the Good Lord bless this coach and all those that set forth withing her.

Welcome Marcelo

Matt
 
OK Marcelo, Hang on Tight.....

What you have is a "Rear Bath Birch". Some find this a very desirable version. Be sure that any modifications you make actually make it better. Please add that note to the sigfile as it matters a lot. Birches are very different and some things matter a lot.

I do hope someone advised you that a reliable and ready travel GMC will cost you about 30K$us. What does not get said enough is that this is all at once, or as a kit and sweat gets billed in at full shop rate. Places that will work on her are probably getting 100+$us/hour out there. With that kind of cost, you should consider buying any tools you might need and just expect that they will amortize in short order. Besides, if you do the work, you know it got done right, or at least you know how to do it again.

If you do not have a maintenance log, start one. If you do this right, before very long at all, this will all be a blur. Vehicles of this period all required regular maintenance to stay reliable. She can be reliable, you will hear of many that do extended excursions with no issues. If you do this log in digital, be sure that there is an accessible cloud back-up. I also have another list that I like a lot. Chaumière Needs is a six part list. First is "Needed Now", things that have priority and need attention. Second is "Winter Jobs" are the things that will happen when she is not busy going places. Third is "Waiting" things that have low priority but I don't want to forget. The Fourth "Deferred" just makes them lower priority (May it need materials I have to buy).
is "Abandon" those thing I thought we be good but now have doubts are of any value, but I don't want to forget about. The last is a fun one. It is "Done". This is good because went something is done, add a date and move it here and it is very rewarding to look at the growing done list. This you can keep in digital as it won't matter if it gets lost.

The Airsprings are not nearly stock. From the bit of the picture, they look like Ferrara bags. Many people are happy with them. As Christo said, air pressure means nothing. This is particularly true of a light (yours is) 23 coach. If you are doing longer runs, leave the valves open and left the system work. You are carrying nearly 300# of potable water that moves forward with flushes, and about the same weight in fuel that will be gone in about 400 miles. All of this upsets the coach fore-aft trim and can lead to handling issues that you will not be able to identify until you have several thousand miles under you.

Being a rear bath, makes the potable tank more difficult to remove- IIRC. So, I am going to suggest that you get under the coach (NEVER get under it when it is not blocked up) and poke at the area you think may be a problem with something sharp and try to ascertain just how bad the flooring is. You may find that it is different than you thought.

About being under the coach. As said above, do not unless it is blocked or something. When the rear suspension fails. the back of the coach can crush a snake. Really, if you ever see this happen, it is scary.

If you do not have all the owner's and service documentation, you should. It can all be downloaded at GMCMI.com. Or, you can join GMCMI and you will get, that on a thumbdrive and the magazine and other good stuff. You should also look up Cascaders and Western States and join up with them. Next year's fall international is planned for Rapid City. Make plans now. When you get there, be very ready. I have been told by others that I got to go there that being at an International for the first time is a lot like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose. A Western States in much the same, but I have only been to one of those (so far).

There are two forums, and they are both very good. This is the newer one, and has mostly newer owners. The older one (GMCnet) was started as a e-mail group in the early 80's and has a forum as a mirror of that group and so it can be difficult at times. That is were the long time owners write. Some are original owners and many have worn out a coach or two. There is also considerable coverage on Facebook. Do Not Take any advice there on presumption of accuracy. I have seen at least two coaches end up as scrap because the owner took bad advice.

About batteries (before I forget),disconnect the rear one and see if the generator (APU) cranks. If it does not, then that is what that battery does.

About the coach, it is much more than a big new toy. The most important thing is the community it connects you to.... Between here and the other forum, you just collected a couple of thousand new old friends. This community can be off-putting until you realize that most everybody here has a not so secret agenda. That agenda is to see to it that you get to enjoy both the coach and what it can do for you. We all know. It is a community of supportive and helping people the like of which you most likely have never experienced. Let it work for you. There is an amazing resource that is waiting at these forums and the local owners groups. When I discovered this I knew what to think. It is very much like the community of watermen that are my world. For this reason, (and because I now have a name), I like to welcome new owners much as you might be welcomed there. So,

May the Good Lord bless this coach and all those that set forth withing her.

Welcome Marcelo

Matt
Wow, this is great, Matt. Thank you! It looks like we were able to remove the rot. Thank you for the warm welcome!
 
I do hope someone advised you that a reliable and ready travel GMC will cost you about 30K$us. What does not get said enough is that this is all at once, or as a kit and sweat gets billed in at full shop rate. Places that will work on her are probably getting 100+$us/hour out there. With that kind of cost, you should consider buying any tools you might need and just expect that they will amortize in short order. Besides, if you do the work, you know it got done right, or at least you know how to do it again.
Matt

IDK Matt, this has been the rule of thumb for about 20 years now. Seems like the number should be more like $50k for 2020.
 
IDK Matt, this has been the rule of thumb for about 20 years now. Seems like the number should be more like $50k for 2020.

Todd,

I have seen more than a few coaches that were that level of expense, but please not the wording....
"A reliable and ready to travel coach..... " This does not include new paint (~10K$us), all new upholstery, installing a 1.5KVA inverter and 600 watts of solar to support the big screen TV.

Matt
 
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Todd,

I have seen more than a few coaches that were that level of expense, but please not the wording....
"A reliable and ready to travel coach..... " This does not include new paint (~10K$us), all new upholstery, installing a 1.5KVA inverter and 600 watts of solar to support the big screen TV.

Matt
Todd,

I have seen more than a few coaches that were that level of expense, but please not the wording....
"A reliable and ready to travel coach..... " This does not include new paint (~10K$us), all new upholstery, installing a 1.5KVA inverter and 600 watts of solar to support the big screen TV.

Matt



That's probably about right, $30k to have one that goes reliably down the road.

The old rule of thumb was $30k for a finished/nice one at the end of the day, that number is probably more like $50k now.
 
Marcelo,
Unfortunately, you missed the good one here. The Honda and Chrysler vans were often fit with special seating for challenged people. The middle row seats had two arm rests and were great, but a few years back, they took off one arm rest to make room for the side air bags. People over at birdfeeder know a lot more about this.
Matt
 
Good seats for not much money are tough to find. It used to be you could go to a junkyard and get seats from an '80s full size conversion van, they were about the best. Now, your best bet for used seats might center row Honda Odyssey or Toyata Sienna seats. Some of them even have leg rests built in. What I found was that these cost as much as just getting new RV seats.

I put a pair of leather Honda Odyssey seats in a previous coach and drove it out to Yellowstone, Glacier, down through Utah to Las Vegas and then it was driven back home by my brother and his wife. They were very inexpensive and easily adapted to fit the RV base using Unistrut material. I'm not sure what the lure of the Odyssey seats was. They were just 'ok'. Yes they reclined and had a cupholder and arm rests. Other than that, I didn't find them super comfortable for a trip that long.

A friend of mine is an over the road truck driver. He advised me to spend as much as I could on good seats, at least the driver seat.

I sort of cheaped out anyway. Probably should have just bit the bullet and bought new FlexSteel seats for about 2x more, but these ones I got are pretty comfortable: https://shop4seats.com/rv-furniture/rv-captain-chairs/de-leon-ii-rv-captains-chair.html

Iirc the cost of these was around $750 each to my door.

They will send a sample book of the fabrics / leather. Trust me, the colors on your computer screen will not match the actual color, request the samples. I got Chocolate and imo it looks pretty good against the brown dash color:

1612389269605.png
 
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Great ideas on the seats, guys. Right now all seats are being reupholstered. Birchy is getting painted as we speak, and hopefully we get her back in a couple of weeks. I think we have a little transmission work, adding the furniture back in, and maybe we are on the road by April!

In the meantime check out what we did to our tub. We used a company called Miracle Method to refinish the tub, and I have to say it looks like a brand new porcelain tub! Before/after below.
 

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The tub looks great, I just had my 23' Birchaven tub refinished in white last week. I did it to my last coach and wanted to refinish this build as well.
 
We are getting close to the finish line, folks. I'll do a full recap, soon. Birchy goes in for a full newly built transmission and 3.7 FD, tomorrow. While repairing the grey and black tanks, it was discovered that a PO had patched both tanks with significant holes using fiberglass, which does not seal well to ABS. In fact, they were completely falling apart. When removing the grey tank, a rats nest of exposed electrical wires from some poor re-routing of the generator. Well, that's all cleaned up now thanks to Tuck at At Your Door RV Service [he's been amazing].

Seats are 75% done, and body work seemed done, but now I am noticing the door has a gap at the bottom [probably has this whole time] and need to go get the door adjusted, maybe bent?

Paint/body was done by Eric and team at Ultimate Paint and Collision Repair, LLC in Portland. They specialize in trucks, and I found them to be less than half of the price of Johnson RV [who struggled to even form a bid] while not sacrificing price, or detail. These guys really killed it. Patching huge vent holes, cracks, you name it, and with the most amazing attitudes. He had enjoyed this so much, that he asked that I spread the word.
 

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