Battery replacement ?

C

charles boyd

New member
Jul 8, 2007
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Good day to all. I am researching battery replacements for our 76 Eleganza II. It has a Progressive Dynamics 40 amp converter-charger with charge
wizard. We have a 850 CCA starting battery up front and 2 six volt Trojan golf cart batteries in the rear. My questions concern the rear batteries.
Should I stay with 2) 6 volt Trojans in series or go to 2) 12 volt Trojan golf cart batteries wired parallel? Should I stay with Deep cycle flooded
or go to Deep Cycle Lithium, or Deep Cycle AGM, or Deep Cycle gel? Will my 80 amp alternator and PD 40 with wizard charge the Lithium, AGM, and gel
type batteries correctly? The Trojan Lithium Ion has a state of charge gauge on top and a microprocessor that turns the battery off if a problem is
detected. When problem goes away the integrated controller turns the battery back on. It states the TrojanTrillium is a direct replacement for lead
acid batteries and chargers with AGM and gel settings with I-E profile. ( which I don’t know what is).
Any comments or experiences are welcome. Thanks..
--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Chuck,

This answer largely comes down to how much do you want to spend to avoid some inconvenience.
The most bang for the buck is a toss-up between flooded 6V Trojans and the FeLiPo4.
The cost interval between the versions of Lead/Acid makes them all about equal.
The only person I know of with Lithium only has about 5 seasons on that bank and it is still doing OK.

If you elect to go with Lithium, there are charge controllers that are very available to make them compatible with the existing systems.
You still might choose to replace the PD with one specifically calibrated for that service.

I have not done any research into the Trojan Lithium, but I am going to start. I like Trojans and have had good installations with them.
I would avoid going to a pair of 12V jars in parallel. This is a type of installation that has been the cause of most of the battery explosions that
I have seen. (I like them actually because the owners insurance pays me a lot to do the clean-up and repairs.)

The I-E profile is the dis/charge curve of the bank. LiFePo4s are very different and given their choice, they could try to grab enough juice to take
your alternator at least off-line if not out all together. This device will also prevent them from smoking the whole harness if there is a
unprotected failure.

Hope this helps.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Yes , thank you. Matt

> Chuck,
>
> This answer largely comes down to how much do you want to spend to avoid some inconvenience.
> The most bang for the buck is a toss-up between flooded 6V Trojans and the FeLiPo4.
> The cost interval between the versions of Lead/Acid makes them all about equal.
> The only person I know of with Lithium only has about 5 seasons on that bank and it is still doing OK.
>
> If you elect to go with Lithium, there are charge controllers that are very available to make them compatible with the existing systems.
> You still might choose to replace the PD with one specifically calibrated for that service.
>
> I have not done any research into the Trojan Lithium, but I am going to start. I like Trojans and have had good installations with them.
> I would avoid going to a pair of 12V jars in parallel. This is a type of installation that has been the cause of most of the battery explosions
> that I have seen. (I like them actually because the owners insurance pays me a lot to do the clean-up and repairs.)
>
> The I-E profile is the dis/charge curve of the bank. LiFePo4s are very different and given their choice, they could try to grab enough juice to
> take your alternator at least off-line if not out all together. This device will also prevent them from smoking the whole harness if there is a
> unprotected failure.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Matt

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Hi Chuck
I just replaced my Trojan 6Vs with a couple a 12V Renogy LiFePO4s in parallel. Because the Lithium's need to charge to 14.4 rather than 13.6, I installed a BIM (Battery Isolation Manager) from Battle Born Batteries. https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Born-Batteries-Lithium-Isolation/dp/B07DY8S815/ref=asc_df_B07DY8S815/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312111914138&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1033788291552745694&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027507&hvtargid=pla-598692510404&psc=1 to keep from overworking the alternator or overcharging the chassis battery.
Also, you'll need to replace the house battery charger with one specifically for the Lithiums. https://www.progressivedyn.com/pd9100l/

It's a lot more expensive, but I don't think I'll ever have to worry about having enough battery ever again.

bdub



-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Charles Boyd via Gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 7:07 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Battery replacement ?

Good day to all. I am researching battery replacements for our 76 Eleganza II. It has a Progressive Dynamics 40 amp converter-charger with charge
wizard. We have a 850 CCA starting battery up front and 2 six volt Trojan golf cart batteries in the rear. My questions concern the rear batteries.
Should I stay with 2) 6 volt Trojans in series or go to 2) 12 volt Trojan golf cart batteries wired parallel? Should I stay with Deep cycle flooded
or go to Deep Cycle Lithium, or Deep Cycle AGM, or Deep Cycle gel? Will my 80 amp alternator and PD 40 with wizard charge the Lithium, AGM, and gel
type batteries correctly? The Trojan Lithium Ion has a state of charge gauge on top and a microprocessor that turns the battery off if a problem is
detected. When problem goes away the integrated controller turns the battery back on. It states the TrojanTrillium is a direct replacement for lead
acid batteries and chargers with AGM and gel settings with I-E profile. ( which I don’t know what is).
Any comments or experiences are welcome. Thanks..
 
Had good luck with 2 Costco 6 volt golf cart batteries lasted 5 or more years. I have 4 Costco 6 volt batteries that are going on 5 years old in my
sob still doing well. Can’t go wrong with these batteries unless you want to spend big bucks for high tech batteries. Trojan batteries are nice but
kind of spendy
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
 
I've got two GC2 6v from advancedauto going on 5 years with no problems just need to water like a needy plant.
--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
 
I had a set of batteries wired in parallel for several years. It was a 24 volt system and was disconnected completely when not in use. I used a
trimetric system to monitor the state of charge on them. When I could not get the system to charge properly I labeled the batteries and disassembled
the system and checked each battery individually. The first two batteries closest to the the charging system and use were flat and would not charge.
The two batteries that would be as I looked at it "in the back" where just fine. I rechecked the wiring. I used four "0" cables of equal length to
connect all the batteries and followed what was supposed to be (after a great deal of research) the proper method for wiring batteries in parallel.
The batteries that died were AGM 8D batteries that were kind of pricey and they died at about the same time and my lead acid start batteries wired in
series. I have since gone to having my batteries always in series and avoided wiring them in parallel.

JWID

HTH

Melbo
--
Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
 
Jerry Work gave an excellent presentation on installing LiFePO4 batteries in the GMC at the GMCWS fall rally. I've included a link to it. It
convinced me to replace my old CATV 12v batteries wired in parallel and also the combiner. So far it's looking good. I just wish I had more
opportunity to try it out on the road. COVID rules. The only problem I had was that I formerly used the output of the alternator to turn off my fuel
pumps if the engine shuts down. With the new combiner, which doesn't have a diode in series with the alternator output, it won't work. So I decided
to mount a Ford collision switch near the wipers as an alternative. Better than nothing?

http://gmcws.org/blog/lithium-battery-presentation-gmcws-2019-fall-rally/
--
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
 
Jack,

Since you seem slightly concerned about depending on the Ford collision
switch for engine shutdown, you may want to use an engine oil
pressure switch also. IIRC, I'm using a '74 Vega switch.

Ken H.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 8:37 PM Jack Christensen via Gmclist <

> Jerry Work gave an excellent presentation on installing LiFePO4 batteries
> in the GMC at the GMCWS fall rally. I've included a link to it. It
> convinced me to replace my old CATV 12v batteries wired in parallel and
> also the combiner. So far it's looking good. I just wish I had more
> opportunity to try it out on the road. COVID rules. The only problem I
> had was that I formerly used the output of the alternator to turn off my
> fuel
> pumps if the engine shuts down. With the new combiner, which doesn't have
> a diode in series with the alternator output, it won't work. So I decided
> to mount a Ford collision switch near the wipers as an alternative.
> Better than nothing?
>
> http://gmcws.org/blog/lithium-battery-presentation-gmcws-2019-fall-rally/
> --
> Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
> '76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
> Sebastopol, CA
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I am on the lithium "fence". I also know enough about this subject to be dangerous. Is there no concern about the temperature limitations for charging
and useage, like if you live in the cold weather areas (like I do)? I see many presentations that seem to have the batteries in a "tempered"
environment for that reason. So I worry that if I stick two 12v lithiums back next to the generator, they are essentially "outdoors". Hmmmmm.....
--
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
 
The lithium batteries will be damaged if charged at low temps. Even though I am in a temperate climate, I installed a thermostatically controlled
heating pad to my LiFePo4 battery mounted by the generator. The pads are sold in various sizes to protect water and holding tanks. Haven't needed
it yet!

JWID, John S
--
John Shutzbaugh, Vacaville, CA, ncserv;
77 Eleganza, bought it new, can't blame PO; and
78 Buskirk stretch, "What were we thinking?"
 
LiFePO4 batteries these days use a Battery Management System (BMS) that
takes care of all that. User does not need to worry about it.

bdub

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist On Behalf Of John Shutzbaugh via Gmclist
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Battery replacement ?

The lithium batteries will be damaged if charged at low temps. Even though
I am in a temperate climate, I installed a thermostatically controlled
heating pad to my LiFePo4 battery mounted by the generator. The pads are
sold in various sizes to protect water and holding tanks. Haven't needed
it yet!
 
Yes the BMS will prevent charging a cold battery, and the damage that could happen, but if you WANT to charge one in cold weather, you'll need to warm
it up.

JohnS
--
John Shutzbaugh, Vacaville, CA, ncserv;
77 Eleganza, bought it new, can't blame PO; and
78 Buskirk stretch, "What were we thinking?"
 
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