Battery locations

[john massey]

Two 12 V batteries (starting and House)in the front engine compartment on
a double battery tray and another 12 V battery in the Onan generator
compartment for starting the generator.

I 've read about increasing the booddocking time by replacing the 12V
house battery with 2 6v Golf cart batteries wired in series which provides
considerably more amp hours. Where does one put them? There doesn't seem to
be room in the front passenger side engine compartment where the two 12v
batteries are now. If I put the House battery(s) back in the Onan
compartment, what additional wires do I need to run and what size. Would
there be a problem with weight, I understand that the front end is already
too light.

I also have read that putting dissimiliar batteries in the same charging
circuit will/can result in one of the batteries receiving insufficient
charge. It would seem I can't/shouldn't use the existing charging circuit,
which now charges the two front batteries simultaneously, with a 12V battery
on one terminal of the isolator and two 6v batteries on the other terminal.

I've got the full set of manuals but the wiring diagrams do not show the
generator wiring - at least I've missed it if they do.

We got the MH in August and this is the first time I've gotten free time to
start looking at this. I retired two years ago and have been so busy (Not
with Work!) I haven't been able to get any time to get the MH setup. : )

John

 

[bartz paul]

John:

For whatever it's worth, I have a 78 Royale. Like you, I have two
batteries on the right side of the engine compartment. However, my
house battery is on the left side of the engine compartment.

Paul Bartz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Massey [SMTP:john.massey]
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:10 PM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: GMC: Battery locations
>
> I've got a 1977 Royale with three batteries
>
> Two 12 V batteries (starting and House) in the front engine
> compartment on a double battery tray and another 12 V battery in the
> Onan generator compartment for starting the generator.
>
> I 've read about increasing the boondocking time by replacing the
> 12V house battery with 2 6v Golf cart batteries wired in series which
> provides considerably more amp hours. Where does one put them? There
> doesn't seem to be room in the front passenger side engine compartment
> where the two 12v batteries are now. If I put the House battery(s)
> back in the Onan compartment, what additional wires do I need to run
> and what size. Would there be a problem with weight, I understand
> that the front end is already too light.
>
> I also have read that putting dissimiliar batteries in the same
> charging circuit will/can result in one of the batteries receiving
> insufficient charge. It would seem I can't/shouldn't use the existing
> charging circuit, which now charges the two front batteries
> simultaneously, with a 12V battery on one terminal of the isolator and
> two 6v batteries on the other terminal.
>
> I've got the full set of manuals but the wiring diagrams do not show
> the generator wiring - at least I've missed it if they do.
>
> We got the MH in August and this is the first time I've gotten free
> time to start looking at this. I retired two years ago and have been
> so busy (Not with Work!) I haven't been able to get any time to get
> the MH setup. : )
>
> John

 

[john szalay]

>John:
>
>For whatever it's worth, I have a 78 Royale. Like you, I have two
>batteries on the right side of the engine compartment. However, my
>house battery is on the left side of the engine compartment.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
>> I've got a 1977 Royale with three batteries
>>
>> Two 12 V batteries (starting and House) in the front engine
>> compartment on a double battery tray and another 12 V battery in the
>> Onan generator compartment for starting the generator.
>>
>> I also have read that putting dissimiliar batteries in the same
>> charging circuit will/can result in one of the batteries receiving
>> insufficient charge. I

That is true ONLY IF the batteries are connected in Parallel.
If they are connected in series, its just as if they were one large battery.
after all, your 12volt battery is a series of small cells connected in
series to give you 12 volts.

>>it would seem I can't/shouldn't use the existing
>> charging circuit, which now charges the two front batteries
>> simultaneously, with a 12V battery on one terminal of the isolator and
>> two 6v batteries on the other terminal.
>>

yes you can.

+12- +6-+6-

The biggest problem is where to mount the large 6 volt batteries.

I also have 3 batteries in my 73 , one for the engine, one for the house 12V
and one in the back for the Onan genset.

 

[phil swanson]

Hello fellow GMCers,

With all this message traffic about batteries and locations,
I decided to check out my newly acquired 1973 Canyon Lands closer with
respect to batteries and cables. I have the two golf cart 6 Volt types
in series in the front on the passenger side and one commercial battery
back in the generator bay but I have no generator however. The battery
in the back is functioning strictly for reserve capacity. One of the
horrors I have however is the positive battery cable that runs
underneath the coach on the left side to hook up the generator battery.
As I inspected the insulation on the cable, I saw places that are
chaffing on the frame and taped, but thankfully not worn through
underneath. It would create one heck of a mess and/or fire if this
cable decided to short out. Suggest if condition of cable is unknown,
that you inspect the insulation and replace the cable or disconnect
that back battery when not in use. I am going to invest in one of those
little shut off switches at the battery post so I can electrically
disconnect it and if and when I ever need it, I can tighten the green
knob and restore a connection. I do not like the idea of this cable
rubbing on sharp twists and bends in the frame. Maybe installing one of
those outer jackets for wire looms often seen on custom installations ,
like on hot rods, would help. Anything to keep the cable from wearing
through and creating a wild short. The bad thing about the stock
configuration that I have is that is always live and a short waiting to
happen. Maybe I will just get rid of the battery in the back since I
have no generator. I could eventually get a Honda generator with rope
start and get rid of the battery and the added weight in the rear where
the GMCs are too heavy anyway and eliminate the possibility of
catastrophic failure and possible loss of the coach.

Regards, Phil

 

[robert dinsmore]

John:

I removed the grill and welded a battery tray to the crossmember
directly in front of the radiator/air conditioning condenser. Then
installed two Trojan 105 6 volt golf cart batteries in series rated at
200 amp hours. Reinstalled the grill with stainless steel wing nuts and
lock washers so I could easily remove the grill for battery servicing.

Battery cables were kept short to minimuize voltage drop and for the
most part all wiring to the inverter/charger is stock and left
unchanged.

Then I replaced the original 12 volt starting battery and house battery
(located on the passenger side) with another two golf cart batteries
that are used for only starting loads (1200 cold cranking amps that tell
that 455 whose boss at 20 below zero in Wisconsin)

The 6 KW Onan has a small starting battery adjacent to it so there is no
reason for heavy battery cables strung the length of the motorhome.

The advantage of the 4 golf cart battery system is: #1, I can squander
my battery power, and listen to the radio any time I want without fear
of discharging my starting battery... #2, In a pinch I can use the
starting batteries to operate the load in the house (400 amps hours
available to run my VCR/TV and space heater blowers in the winter). #3,
As my house batteries die from hard deep cycling, I move the starting
batteries into the house battery tray and buy new starting batteries.
#4, I have TRUE DEEP CYCLE batteries designed to deliver 75 amps
continously, not like most 8D truck batteries that are really just big
starting batteries. #5, I have lots of redundancy. #5, Since I live on
a boat in the summers and use the motorhome in the winter I do a lot of
poor weather driving (22,000 miles in the last two years)... The extra
weight up front comes in handy in the snow(about 280 pounds for 4
batteries).

I notice no change in engine operating temperature, but I travel in the
winter as far south as Arizona, Texas, and Georgia. My plan was to duct
air from the grill opening to the radiator if I encounter an overheating
problem, but so far I have not found it necessary.

I use a like setup on my sailboat, (except I have 800 amp hours), and I
cruise 5 months of the year in Alaska without electrical hookup during
the entire time.

Hope this helps

Bob

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Massey [SMTP:john.massey]
> > Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:10 PM
> > To: gmcmotorhome
> > Subject: GMC: Battery locations
> >
> > I've got a 1977 Royale with three batteries
> >
> > Two 12 V batteries (starting and House) in the front engine
> > compartment on a double battery tray and another 12 V battery in the
> > Onan generator compartment for starting the generator.
> >
> > I 've read about increasing the boondocking time by replacing the
> > 12V house battery with 2 6v Golf cart batteries wired in series which
> > provides considerably more amp hours. Where does one put them? There
> > doesn't seem to be room in the front passenger side engine compartment
> > where the two 12v batteries are now. If I put the House battery(s)
> > back in the Onan compartment, what additional wires do I need to run
> > and what size. Would there be a problem with weight, I understand
> > that the front end is already too light.
> >
> > I also have read that putting dissimiliar batteries in the same
> > charging circuit will/can result in one of the batteries receiving
> > insufficient charge. It would seem I can't/shouldn't use the existing
> > charging circuit, which now charges the two front batteries
> > simultaneously, with a 12V battery on one terminal of the isolator and
> > two 6v batteries on the other terminal.
> >
> > I've got the full set of manuals but the wiring diagrams do not show
> > the generator wiring - at least I've missed it if they do.
> >
> > We got the MH in August and this is the first time I've gotten free
> > time to start looking at this. I retired two years ago and have been
> > so busy (Not with Work!) I haven't been able to get any time to get
> > the MH setup. : )
> >
> > John

 

[robert dinsmore]

Jim:

It's only a guess, but I would say no more wear than carrying extra
passenger. (Four golf cart batteries at 70 pounds each equal 280 pounds
less the estimated weight of the original batteries of 90 pounds).

The real potential improvement in weight distribution would be in moving
the 40 gallon water tank from its rear location to up front (my tank is
under the rear bed). I calculate that at 8 pounds per gallon the full
water tank of 40 gallons weighs 320 pounds.... if I move it to under the
side couch behind the driver haven't I in net effect placed 640 pounds
up front? While I'm dreaming.... why not leave the old tank in the
rear, install a new tank up front.... connect the two tanks with 3/4"
pipe, add a reversable pump controled by a dash mounted switch, then I
can change my coaches weight distribution as needed.

This dicussion is probably enough to cause the original GMC engineers to
die of laughter, or scare them to death with the thought of us
collapsing the front suspension!!!!!

Bob

>
> HOW SENSITIVE ARE THE BALL JOINTS TO MORE WEIGHT?? DOES A LITTLE MORE
> EXCELERATE WEAR
>
> JIM

 

[richard archer]

Question

So you have put a little more weight up front. From all I hear the GMC
has a problem with front wheel bearings. Have you seen any of this?
Does the old girl still roll just fine. This is the second entry that has
said to move weight to front. I still dont have an answer as to
how bad this is for the old ladies. Any thoughts ALL?
Thanks

Take Care
arch
DeSoto IL
~~~~~~~~~~~~\____/~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.gcbr.com

- ----------
> From: Robert Dinsmore
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: Re: GMC: RE: Battery locations
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 3:20 AM
>
> John:
>
> I removed the grill and welded a battery tray to the crossmember
> directly in front of the radiator/air conditioning condenser. Then
> installed two Trojan 105 6 volt golf cart batteries in series rated at
> 200 amp hours. Reinstalled the grill with stainless steel wing nuts and
> lock washers so I could easily remove the grill for battery servicing.
>
> Battery cables were kept short to minimuize voltage drop and for the
> most part all wiring to the inverter/charger is stock and left
> unchanged.
>
> Then I replaced the original 12 volt starting battery and house battery
> (located on the passenger side) with another two golf cart batteries
> that are used for only starting loads (1200 cold cranking amps that tell
> that 455 whose boss at 20 below zero in Wisconsin)
>
> The 6 KW Onan has a small starting battery adjacent to it so there is no
> reason for heavy battery cables strung the length of the motorhome.
>
> The advantage of the 4 golf cart battery system is: #1, I can squander
> my battery power, and listen to the radio any time I want without fear
> of discharging my starting battery... #2, In a pinch I can use the
> starting batteries to operate the load in the house (400 amps hours
> available to run my VCR/TV and space heater blowers in the winter). #3,
> As my house batteries die from hard deep cycling, I move the starting
> batteries into the house battery tray and buy new starting batteries.
> #4, I have TRUE DEEP CYCLE batteries designed to deliver 75 amps
> continously, not like most 8D truck batteries that are really just big
> starting batteries. #5, I have lots of redundancy. #5, Since I live on
> a boat in the summers and use the motorhome in the winter I do a lot of
> poor weather driving (22,000 miles in the last two years)... The extra
> weight up front comes in handy in the snow(about 280 pounds for 4
> batteries).
>
> I notice no change in engine operating temperature, but I travel in the
> winter as far south as Arizona, Texas, and Georgia. My plan was to duct
> air from the grill opening to the radiator if I encounter an overheating
> problem, but so far I have not found it necessary.
>
> I use a like setup on my sailboat, (except I have 800 amp hours), and I
> cruise 5 months of the year in Alaska without electrical hookup during
> the entire time.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Massey [SMTP:john.massey]
> > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:10 PM
> > > To: gmcmotorhome
> > > Subject: GMC: Battery locations
> > >
> > > I've got a 1977 Royale with three batteries
> > >
> > > Two 12 V batteries (starting and House) in the front engine
> > > compartment on a double battery tray and another 12 V battery in the
> > > Onan generator compartment for starting the generator.
> > >
> > > I 've read about increasing the boondocking time by replacing the
> > > 12V house battery with 2 6v Golf cart batteries wired in series which
> > > provides considerably more amp hours. Where does one put them? There
> > > doesn't seem to be room in the front passenger side engine
compartment
> > > where the two 12v batteries are now. If I put the House battery(s)
> > > back in the Onan compartment, what additional wires do I need to run
> > > and what size. Would there be a problem with weight, I understand
> > > that the front end is already too light.
> > >
> > > I also have read that putting dissimiliar batteries in the same
> > > charging circuit will/can result in one of the batteries receiving
> > > insufficient charge. It would seem I can't/shouldn't use the
existing
> > > charging circuit, which now charges the two front batteries
> > > simultaneously, with a 12V battery on one terminal of the isolator
and
> > > two 6v batteries on the other terminal.
> > >
> > > I've got the full set of manuals but the wiring diagrams do not show
> > > the generator wiring - at least I've missed it if they do.
> > >
> > > We got the MH in August and this is the first time I've gotten free
> > > time to start looking at this. I retired two years ago and have been
> > > so busy (Not with Work!) I haven't been able to get any time to get
> > > the MH setup. : )
> > >
> > > John

 

[mike finnicum]

Hi All,

Lots of activity while I was at our monthly GMC rally. So here is my 2 cents
worth.

Re: Weight up front vs. batteries.
I have my original style battery in the back compartment. At the club we
have about 150 members with 50-60 regularly showing up at the rallies. I
have surveyed the group and about 20% have moved batteries forward (over 50%
have switched to golf cart batteries). No one has yet moved them back. There
are various reasons but storage (using old bat compartment for elec cords,
hoses, oil, etc.) and weight up front appear the biggest.

Alex Sirum who owns a large GMC repair center in Ochachobee, FL say the
weight is negligible compared to the total up front weight. He also says if
you are wearing out bearings, check the hubs. If they are worn, bearings
will wear out 2 to 5 times faster. You should NOT be able to turn the
bearing inside the hub. The front axles are meant to carry 3500 lbs.. 75-100
lbs. of battery is only 2-3% of the total.

I am now planning to move mine up front at my next coach battery
replacement.

Re: Restorations:
Restorations generally run $10-25,000 for the do it yourselfer and
$25-70,000 for a professional job.
There are several shops that do the work. In Florida, Golby and Sirum are
the only one's I know of but there are many others nationwide. Classco went
out of business a few months ago. Golby and Sirum bought most of the stuff.
I have seen coaches from both Golby and Sirum and they both do very nice
work. Several club members have had restorations from both and with varying
degrees of satisfaction. Mostly, people seem happy overall. Dissatisfaction
appears to be in the areas of small details. Do not assume that during a
restoration, anything not specifically itemized will be changed or replaced.
Wiring is a big contention with several at our club. After recent
restorations without wiring changes, problems have occurred and its now hard
to determine who is at fault at the wiring was NOT part of the restoration.
Unless you demand it be replaced (and that adds to the price) it won't be.
Theory is that if it works, don't fix it. However, the wiring is 20-25 years
old, and during a restoration it is greatly disturbed.

If I were spending $25-70,000, I would want to talk to several people who
have had the work done. I would first join a club in my area. Then I would
seek out restorations, there are plenty. Look at the workmanship closely,
talk to the owners, even get ideas. I have never put much faith in company
provided references and no one gives out the problems. At a club you will
find them all.

Also, there is an outfit that paints in Indiana. They charge $2500-3000. The
work is awesome. Several members have had it done and are all 100%
satisfied. They do the work in just 4 days, so you can wait if you wish. The
price includes full and proper prep, minor body work and top quality
materials. You create the
design. I have seen some rather elaborate designs that were done for this
price. As paint jobs generally run $4-7,000, this might be a way to save
money without sacrificing quality work. A do-it-yourselfer will pay $1,200
to $1,800 just for the materials!

Re: Headliners & Caps:
I just installed a new headliner and side panels myself. I am now getting
ready to have my front cap and dash "painted" to match the new leather seats
I have chosen. I am having this work done at Alex Sirum's. He uses a special
stain (I will get the brand while I'm up there tomorrow). I have seen
several that both Alex and Golby have done and after years on some they
still look good. He recommends taking out the caps to do the job right.

Phew! That's about it.

Good Luck

Mike F.
78 Eleganza
Naples, FL

 

[robert dinsmore]

Richard:

I have at least 10,000 miles on the "battery up front conversion", I
can't tell the differents between before and after, can't be any worse
than carring an extra passenger. Agreed the front end is light duty,
but I doubt anouther 150 pounds would hurt a thing.

Bob

>
> Question
>
> So you have put a little more weight up front. From all I hear the GMC
> has a problem with front wheel bearings. Have you seen any of this?
> Does the old girl still roll just fine. This is the second entry that has
> said to move weight to front. I still dont have an answer as to
> how bad this is for the old ladies. Any thoughts ALL?
> Thanks
>
> Take Care
> arch
> DeSoto IL
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~\____/~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> www.gcbr.com
>
> ----------
> > From: Robert Dinsmore
> > To: gmcmotorhome
> > Subject: Re: GMC: RE: Battery locations
> > Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 3:20 AM
> >
> > John:
> >
> > I removed the grill and welded a battery tray to the crossmember
> > directly in front of the radiator/air conditioning condenser. Then
> > installed two Trojan 105 6 volt golf cart batteries in series rated at
> > 200 amp hours. Reinstalled the grill with stainless steel wing nuts and
> > lock washers so I could easily remove the grill for battery servicing.
> >
> > Battery cables were kept short to minimuize voltage drop and for the
> > most part all wiring to the inverter/charger is stock and left
> > unchanged.
> >
> > Then I replaced the original 12 volt starting battery and house battery
> > (located on the passenger side) with another two golf cart batteries
> > that are used for only starting loads (1200 cold cranking amps that tell
> > that 455 whose boss at 20 below zero in Wisconsin)
> >
> > The 6 KW Onan has a small starting battery adjacent to it so there is no
> > reason for heavy battery cables strung the length of the motorhome.
> >
> > The advantage of the 4 golf cart battery system is: #1, I can squander
> > my battery power, and listen to the radio any time I want without fear
> > of discharging my starting battery... #2, In a pinch I can use the
> > starting batteries to operate the load in the house (400 amps hours
> > available to run my VCR/TV and space heater blowers in the winter). #3,
> > As my house batteries die from hard deep cycling, I move the starting
> > batteries into the house battery tray and buy new starting batteries.
> > #4, I have TRUE DEEP CYCLE batteries designed to deliver 75 amps
> > continously, not like most 8D truck batteries that are really just big
> > starting batteries. #5, I have lots of redundancy. #5, Since I live on
> > a boat in the summers and use the motorhome in the winter I do a lot of
> > poor weather driving (22,000 miles in the last two years)... The extra
> > weight up front comes in handy in the snow(about 280 pounds for 4
> > batteries).
> >
> > I notice no change in engine operating temperature, but I travel in the
> > winter as far south as Arizona, Texas, and Georgia. My plan was to duct
> > air from the grill opening to the radiator if I encounter an overheating
> > problem, but so far I have not found it necessary.
> >
> > I use a like setup on my sailboat, (except I have 800 amp hours), and I
> > cruise 5 months of the year in Alaska without electrical hookup during
> > the entire time.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John Massey [SMTP:john.massey]
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:10 PM
> > > > To: gmcmotorhome
> > > > Subject: GMC: Battery locations
> > > >
> > > > I've got a 1977 Royale with three batteries
> > > >
> > > > Two 12 V batteries (starting and House) in the front engine
> > > > compartment on a double battery tray and another 12 V battery in the
> > > > Onan generator compartment for starting the generator.
> > > >
> > > > I 've read about increasing the boondocking time by replacing the
> > > > 12V house battery with 2 6v Golf cart batteries wired in series which
> > > > provides considerably more amp hours. Where does one put them? There
> > > > doesn't seem to be room in the front passenger side engine
> compartment
> > > > where the two 12v batteries are now. If I put the House battery(s)
> > > > back in the Onan compartment, what additional wires do I need to run
> > > > and what size. Would there be a problem with weight, I understand
> > > > that the front end is already too light.
> > > >
> > > > I also have read that putting dissimiliar batteries in the same
> > > > charging circuit will/can result in one of the batteries receiving
> > > > insufficient charge. It would seem I can't/shouldn't use the
> existing
> > > > charging circuit, which now charges the two front batteries
> > > > simultaneously, with a 12V battery on one terminal of the isolator
> and
> > > > two 6v batteries on the other terminal.
> > > >
> > > > I've got the full set of manuals but the wiring diagrams do not show
> > > > the generator wiring - at least I've missed it if they do.
> > > >
> > > > We got the MH in August and this is the first time I've gotten free
> > > > time to start looking at this. I retired two years ago and have been
> > > > so busy (Not with Work!) I haven't been able to get any time to get
> > > > the MH setup. : )
> > > >
> > > > John