Alternator issues 1976 Palm Beach

I have heard that also, I have had good luck getting them rebuilt at local rebuilder.

> Yes Sir, 3rd alternator. The 1st one I bought, that's how they looked up what alternator would be. 76 Olds Tornado 7.5L.
>
> I have heard the remanufactured alternators are like flipping a coin as to if they will work and/or last.
>
> Samuel

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Sam (sorry about the "Steve" earlier),

Before you start that engine again, allowing the runaway alternator to do
more damage than it already has,
move the wire from the chassis battery terminal of the isolator to the
alternator (center) terminal of the isolator. Then crank the engine and
QUICKLY check the alternator (and consequently chassis battery) voltage.
If it's not near 14-15 volts, shut the engine down QUICKLY and report
back. I think you'll have corrected your basic problem.

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 10:30 PM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

> I have heard that also, I have had good luck getting them rebuilt at local
> rebuilder.
>
>
>
>
>

> > Yes Sir, 3rd alternator. The 1st one I bought, that's how they looked up
> what alternator would be. 76 Olds Tornado 7.5L.
> >
> > I have heard the remanufactured alternators are like flipping a coin as
> to if they will work and/or last.
> >
> > Samuel
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Ken,

So I understand correctly - connect the engine battery wire (on the isolator box) and the alternator wire (center lug isolator box) together on the
center lug of isolator box, the start engine and test voltage from alternator (red wire) to isolator box and the voltage to battery!!!!

Samuel
--
Samuel Ferguson
Pittsfield, Illinois
(West Central Illinois)
1976 GMC Palm Beach (A newbie who will not allow this thing to kick my butt!!)
 
All correct, but you need to check the voltage from the chassis ground (the
aluminum plate on which the isolator is mounted is a good place) to the
chassis battery+alternator output connection on the isolator. That one
voltage is the only one we're interested in right now, and it's
all-important.

Ken H.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 11:10 PM Samuel Ferguson via Gmclist <

> Ken,
>
> So I understand correctly - connect the engine battery wire (on the
> isolator box) and the alternator wire (center lug isolator box) together on
> the
> center lug of isolator box, the start engine and test voltage from
> alternator (red wire) to isolator box and the voltage to battery!!!!
>
> Samuel
> --
> Samuel Ferguson
> Pittsfield, Illinois
> (West Central Illinois)
> 1976 GMC Palm Beach (A newbie who will not allow this thing to kick my
> butt!!)
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Napa part number for the alternator is 213-4022. 27SI
https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=213-4022&referer=semantic&se=1
I tried to get new alternator from Bosch but it was only a 63 watt.

I agree with you Matt Napa on line sucks.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:26 PM Samuel Ferguson via Gmclist <

> Will do Sir. I will check it in the morning and post the findings.
>
> Thank You Sir,
> Samuel
> --
> Samuel Ferguson
> Pittsfield, Illinois
> (West Central Illinois)
> 1976 GMC Palm Beach (A newbie who will not allow this thing to kick my
> butt!!)
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
 
Ken,

I moved the mentioned wires this morning. After doing so, I did a quick check of the readings. I got 11.9v on center lug with chassis battery
lead/alternator wire placed together. I also noticed the alternator laboring real hard. I immediately turned the engine off and turned the battery
off. I could smell something getting HOT. I found the alternator to be Very hot to the touch. I switched the wires back to their original places.
Checked the voltage again. 11.9v from battery to the right isolator post.

I started the engine, and am getting 34.4 volts from red wire coming from back of alternator to the center post of isolator. 11.9v to the left lug of
isolator. 34.4v to the right lug of isolator box.

Samuel
--
Samuel Ferguson
Pittsfield, Illinois
(West Central Illinois)
1976 GMC Palm Beach (A newbie who will not allow this thing to kick my butt!!)
 
Samuel,

For some reason, we're not communicating well. I'm going to go thru your
message and ask for some clarifications:

Ken H.

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 9:58 AM Samuel Ferguson via Gmclist <

> Ken,
>
> I moved the mentioned wires this morning. After doing so, I did a quick
> check of the readings. I got 11.9v on center lug with chassis battery lead/alternator
> wire placed together.

Tell me exactly the two points between which you measure the voltage.

> I also noticed the alternator laboring real hard. I immediately turned the
> engine off and turned the battery off. I could smell something getting
> HOT. I found the alternator to be Very hot to the touch. I switched the
> wires back to their original places. Checked the voltage again. 11.9v
> from battery to the right isolator post.
>

This is one of my confusion points: How many terminals does your
"isolator" have?

Also, what's this measurement "from battery to the right isolator post"?
First off, the only measurement that would make any sense at this point is
from the Ground (-) terminal of the battery. Secondly, most isolators I've
seen are mounted vertically, that is, their 3 terminals (NOT 2) are in a
vertical orientation so "right isolator post" or "left isolator post"
confuses me. It's certainly possible that the orientation of your isolator
has been changed.

> I started the engine, and am getting 34.4 volts from red wire coming from
> back of alternator to the center post of isolator. 11.9v to the left lug of
> isolator. 34.4v to the right lug of isolator box.
>

AhHa! There's that "center post" that I've been worried about! Didn't
recall your having mentioned it, so wasn't sure it existed! :-) Now,
we're getting somewhere. I can only assume that the cable on the Left Lug
leads to the Chassis battery (+) and that on the Right lug leads back to
the House battery. Please confirm that.

Here's what I the information you've shared leads me to believe:

1. The Chassis battery diode in the Isolator failed, allowing the
Alternator to "run away" (and that's happened to every alternator you've
installed since). The open diode is why you read only the Chassis battery
voltage on the Left terminal of the Isolator.

2. One of the runaway Alternators caused the House battery diode to short
due to the high voltage and current overheating it. That short circuit is
why you read the same voltage on both the Center (Alternator) and Right
(House) terminals.

3. The current Alternator has failed, probably due to having run open loop
(with no feedback from the Chassis battery), so that it can no longer be
regulated.

4. If your House battery has not already been irreparably damaged by
excessive voltage, it WILL be if you continue to run that Alternator.

5. You should take the Alternator back to the source and have it tested.
Have any replacement tested before installing it.

6. DO NOT run another alternator without having the Chassis battery
connected directly to the Alternator output, as I instructed yesterday --
that's the surest way to ensure proper feedback to the Alternator and to
prevent damage to other electrical components.

7. Before you plug the two-wire connector into the replacement Alternator,
disconnect the Chassis battery positive lead and measure the resistance
between it and the #2 terminal (White wire) in that connector. It should
be as near zero as the meter can read -- the same as when you short the two
meter leads together. If not, that problem MUST be corrected.

8. Report all these results before starting the engine again.

HTH,

Ken H.
 
Your test voltage and laboring alternator indicate the alternator is looking at a short. The open diode on that battery supports this thought -
something shorted and burned the isolator diode open. This removed the sense voltage from the alternator and it's running away. The hot smell
supports this theory. Now we have to guess. I'm going to guess your power feed to the rear battery is shorted inside the coach wall someplace. To
preclude a shorted cell in the house battery, I would totally disconnect it and try to charge it with an outboard charger. Best approach is probably
one of the cheap ones that provides 6 amps or so, and run it overnight. If the battery charges and holds a charge, go looking for a shorted wire
feeding it. First suspect is the large size wire running to the rear solenoid and the 12 volt panel. If it doesn't hold a charge, it is suspect for
having a shorted cell internally. Pull it out and have your parts house check it. Report back.
There is no need to continue ruining alternators, heal the trouble first.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Ken,

I will try my best to clarify!!! I attached photos to your email for your review.

The isolator box is a 3 plug type . The way it is mounted and the way I was told to describe it - center plug (top)

top plug (left)

bottom plug (right)

Yes, the left lug goes to the center post where the "sticker" on the firewall says "Vehicle Battery Positive". The right lug goes to the left side of
the solenoid which is mounted directly below the isolator box.

After moving the chassis battery wire (top left) to the center lug - I checked and got a reading 11.9v. I started the engine and did a quick check
and got the following:

Alternator was laboring real hard. I immediately turned the engine off and turned the battery off. I could smell something getting HOT. I found the
alternator to be Very hot to the touch. I switched the wires back to their original places. Checked the voltage again. 11.9v from battery to the right
isolator post.

I started the engine, and am getting 34.4 volts from red wire coming from back of alternator to the center post of isolator. 11.9v to the left lug of
isolator. 34.4v to the right lug of isolator box.

Thank You Sir,

Samuel

--
Samuel Ferguson
Pittsfield, Illinois
(West Central Illinois)
1976 GMC Palm Beach (A newbie who will not allow this thing to kick my butt!!)
 
Johnny,

I did fond the booster cable to have coating missing from it along the framing behind the grill area. I have unhooked the booster cable from the
solenoid on the firewall engine compartment. I checked the cable to the connections block located behind the converter and found the cable to appear
to be in working order (no other shorts/grounding) other than what I found it to be touching the frame behind the grill. I have insulations material
ordered to recover the exposed sections (which is approx. 3 feet). But for now the cable is unhooked and no power running to it. My house batter y is
new and it is still holding a charge.

Samuel
--
Samuel Ferguson
Pittsfield, Illinois
(West Central Illinois)
1976 GMC Palm Beach (A newbie who will not allow this thing to kick my butt!!)
 
OK. Let's let Ken H take the lead on this one to preclude any confusion. I'll make one recommend though. If the cable has she3d insulation where
you can see it, it probably had where you can't as well.I'd plan on replacing it. You will likely have to run the replacement inside the frame rail,
it's not really possible to follow the initial routing without removing stuff inside the coach.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Samuel,

I got your email with the photos. That's a REALLY old isolator. I don't
think I'd ever seen a real, OEM, GM labelled one before! Too bad you're
probably going to have to replace it. But before you do, you should test
it, both to ensure that it's really bad (or good) and to let you learn a
little about them. Before we get into details of that, let's agree to quit
using those meaningless terms "top, bottom, etc." and call the terminals
what they are: The middle terminal is for the Alternator. The other two,
when disconnected, are identical in function, so when connected, they
become either House or Chassis terminals, indicating which battery they
serve.

To test the Isolator, since I know you have a multimeter, use it. With the
lowest Ohms range selected, touch the two leads firmly together and be sure
the display reads at least close to zero. When they're not touching, it
should read as high as it's capable of -- "infinity". Now, with all leads
disconnected from the Isolator:

1. Put the Positive (should be Red) lead on the middle terminal and the
Negative (should be Black) lead on one of the other terminals.

2. Note the meter reading. It should be nearly zero or nearly infinite.
Remember that.

3. Now move the Negative lead to the other terminal, keeping the Positive
one in place. Read the meter again and remember what it says. It SHOULD
read the same as before; if not, the Isolator IS bad. We'll find out which
side in the next step.

4. Swap the locations of the leads (Negative to the middle terminal) and
do the same two tests you did above. Anywhere you read zero before SHOULD
now read infinite and vice versa.

5. If either test does not reverse its reading, the diode between those
two terminals is bad. If the unchanged reading was zero, the diode's
shorted; if infinite, the diode's open.

6. If there's not a defective diode, the Isolator should continue to work
fine. Otherwise, buy a new isolator.

But while waiting for a replacement Isolator, you can continue with all
other tests -- remember that the ONLY thing the Isolator does for you is
prevent the batteries from being drained together when the engine's not
running. And it's not even needed with the Sense lead connected to the
Alternator Output.

Johnny's already given you some hints about checking for shorts. IIRC, you
already tested the circuit from the House battery to the Boost solenoid and
repaired the deteriorated insulation on that cable. If not, complete those
tasks now. Since you've repeatedly reported seeing the same voltage at the
Chassis battery and at its connection to the Isolator, I'm confident that
circuit is in good condition. However, the reported voltage is that of a
DEAD battery, which makes me ask, "How did you start the engine?" The
answer to that may be significant.

Ken H.

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 11:48 AM Samuel Ferguson via Gmclist <

> Johnny,
>
> I did fond the booster cable to have coating missing from it along the
> framing behind the grill area. I have unhooked the booster cable from the
> solenoid on the firewall engine compartment. I checked the cable to the
> connections block located behind the converter and found the cable to appear
> to be in working order (no other shorts/grounding) other than what I found
> it to be touching the frame behind the grill. I have insulations material
> ordered to recover the exposed sections (which is approx. 3 feet). But for
> now the cable is unhooked and no power running to it. My house batter y is
> new and it is still holding a charge.
>
> Samuel
> --
> Samuel Ferguson
> Pittsfield, Illinois
> (West Central Illinois)
> 1976 GMC Palm Beach (A newbie who will not allow this thing to kick my
> butt!!)
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>