Add-on 2cents re Inverter

H

heinz wittenbecher

New member
Mar 1, 1998
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Hate to harp, but be sure you consider target usage and if it involves
delicate electronics keep your Inverted 110 output seperate from the rest of
the coach and DO NOT get an Inverter/Charger combination.

If only RV Parks, etc. usually not a problem but to emphasize on the harp:
I'm currently sitting on borrowed 98Volts AC which is not great, but good
enough for the coach in general but I sure wouldn't want my 'puter, etc
running on 98 volts. (Actually I'm surprised it hasn't popped the breaker
yet).

Of course the chargers don't run at normal efficiency either so I try to
limit my Inverted AC requirement to give the batteries a chance to store
instead of just passing juice.

Been over to the StatPower site. Their 1000 or 1800 watt SineWave seem like
the sweetest things.

Is anyone running Solar? I keep contemplating it but the panels seem so high
(thick) and bulky yet, which makes them tough to 'hide'. By high I mean the
2" they would stick up from the roof, and yes, price is still high too :-)

Heinz
 
Heinz;

I have some 5 watt panels that are only about 1/2 thick. They are used - we
replaced them with 10 watt panels. Good full sun they put out 300-350 mw.
If you are interested let me know. $65.00 each. I can also help you with the
regulators if you need them.

Marcus

> Hate to harp, but be sure you consider target usage and if it involves
> delicate electronics keep your Inverted 110 output seperate from the rest of
> the coach and DO NOT get an Inverter/Charger combination.
>
> If only RV Parks, etc. usually not a problem but to emphasize on the harp:
> I'm currently sitting on borrowed 98Volts AC which is not great, but good
> enough for the coach in general but I sure wouldn't want my 'puter, etc
> running on 98 volts. (Actually I'm surprised it hasn't popped the breaker
> yet).
>
> Of course the chargers don't run at normal efficiency either so I try to
> limit my Inverted AC requirement to give the batteries a chance to store
> instead of just passing juice.
>
> Been over to the StatPower site. Their 1000 or 1800 watt SineWave seem like
> the sweetest things.
>
> Is anyone running Solar? I keep contemplating it but the panels seem so high
> (thick) and bulky yet, which makes them tough to 'hide'. By high I mean the
> 2" they would stick up from the roof, and yes, price is still high too :-)
>
> Heinz
 
Right, the little guys are nice and skinny, but I was hoping for some
50-75watt panels to go vegetate with. I saw some at SEMA, but havn't
followed up yet

>Heinz;
>
>I have some 5 watt panels that are only about 1/2 thick. They are used -
we
>replaced them with 10 watt panels. Good full sun they put out 300-350 mw.
>If you are interested let me know. $65.00 each. I can also help you with
the
>regulators if you need them.
>
>Marcus
>

 
>> Is anyone running Solar? I keep contemplating it but the panels seem so
>high
>> (thick) and bulky yet, which makes them tough to 'hide'. By high I mean
the
>> 2" they would stick up from the roof, and yes, price is still high too
:-)
>>
>Heinz
>
>There are some new ones out there that are less than 1/2 inch thick.
>They are even flexible so you can lay them on a curved surface. Saw
>some on an Airstream this summer. I will keep my eye out for a source.

Great, much appreciated. If I can mold them to the roofline, i.e.make it
look non-ugly, I'd take the plunge on solar. I just could see myself with
the 2-3" high crates up there.

Heinz

>
>Take Care
>Arch 76 GB IL
>
>
>
>
 
Your plan is sound, as there is still seperation.
What I wouldn't recommend is to put the whole coach on Inverter, i.e.
fridge, AC, outlet for electric heater, etc.

Make sure you leave yourself some options. As an example, if I'm close to
tripping breakers I try to disconnect fridge as it's easy to run it on
propane.
Matter of fact there are times when hot I'd like to run it on propane as it
cools better but setup isn't the greatest for that as the same outlet that
runs the fridge runs a few others.

I think the StatPoer is the way to go (True Sine Wave)

Heinz

>
>> Hate to harp, but be sure you consider target usage and if it involves
>> delicate electronics keep your Inverted 110 output separate from the
rest
>of
>> the coach and DO NOT get an Inverter/Charger combination.
>>
>Heinz
>
>I agree no inverter/charger. My question is why keep it separate from the
>rest of the coach? I am planning on putting circuit 3 into the
configuration
>I sent earlier. I want good power all over the coach. No, I dont use that
much
>but I want the option of using things anywhere. I ask the guy from
StatPower
>the question-----what if I am in a park with low voltage------how do I run
the
>inverter to give me good power? Simple throw the breaker to circuit 3
>It will have no power so inverter will take over for outlets. The hotwater
>heater and ACs will still run on shore power. This sounded like the perfect
>solution. I respect your opinion so please tell me the flaw here.
>
>Take Care
>Arch 76 GB IL
>
 
I have been running Solar for the last 6 years without any problems.
Make sure your controller operates through the day/night cycle without
placing a load on your batteries at night.
The flexible, sprayed on panels are low output and not worth the space
they occupy on the roof. The military uses them, so do my sailing and
off-road friends.
Herm

>
> In a message dated 11/18/98 1:03:28 PM Central Standard Time,

>
> >
> > Is anyone running Solar? I keep contemplating it but the panels
seem so
> high
> > (thick) and bulky yet, which makes them tough to 'hide'. By high
I mean the
> > 2" they would stick up from the roof, and yes, price is still
high too :-)
> >
> Heinz
>
> There are some new ones out there that are less than 1/2 inch thick.
> They are even flexible so you can lay them on a curved surface. Saw
> some on an Airstream this summer. I will keep my eye out for a source.
>
> Take Care
> Arch 76 GB IL
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
 
Did I make a mistake when I threw my converter in the creek?

First I worry about my wheel bearings, now my inverter / chargers ?

I have used a Trace 1500 watt inverter with multi stage charger to maintain
the Prevailer gel cell house batteries on our boat. They were all installed
in 1991, heavily used, never touched, and are still kicking, maybe because
we try not to deep cycle nor over charge them.

I never suspected, until now, the old Trace inverter-charger might not be
taking good care of those batteries and our sensitive electronics.

Couple of years ago we removed a 12kw genset, added a 2500 watt Statpower
inverter, for 4000 watts total, heavier 12 volt alternators, so all 120
volts has been from the inverters or shorepower. We fast idle one or both
of the propulsion engines when we need large amounts of 120 volt power.

Some tradeoffs, but overall, a better and simpler system.

Based upon that experience, I now have a StatPower SineWave Inverter /
Charger in our GMC. This inverter seems to be well built, and so far works
like a charm.

Wiring used here:

1. Inverter 30 amp switched output feeds one of the two main breakers.

2. The shorepower wire that formerly fed this main breaker now feeds a 30
amp marine breaker.

3. The marine breaker feeds the inverter input.

4. The main breaker feeds breakers with Outlets, TV, Refrig, Microwave, Cook
Top so all operate from
either inverter or shorepower.

The panel mount marine breaker mounts with screws, has screw terminals on
the back and is mounted in the side of the main breaker box.

5. The other shorepower leg feeds the other main breaker and is unchanged.

6. It in turn feeds breakers which pick up the AC, ceramic heater outlets
and water heater.

7. All neutrals go to the neutral buss and all grounds go to the ground
buss.

8. Statpower says Ground Fault Protection on all RV inverter fed circuits
but don't specify if this is their
requirement or part of a code. We put them in.

If this wiring is similar to what Arch and the StatPower tech are thinking,
so far, it is working OK here.

On my coach the refrigerator 120 volt outlet was fed from the water heater
switch box mounted beside the breaker box. I wanted that outlet on the
inverter so had to do some rewiring. This was clearly shown on my wiring
diagram but I scratched my head for awhile as the book was at the house.

Lessons have been learned. Most important, if I were doing it over, would
be switch to 24 or better still, a 48 volt inverter / house system. This
would instantly solve the more difficult problems one runs into with 12 volt
inverters operating at power levels greater than 1000 watts. Of course it
would add a few new complications, but excellence is never easy.

BTW, hav'nt checked the internal wiring, but my old converter might make a
good bucking transformer to increase low park voltages. I once had a
surplus 10 volt 30 amp filament transformer I used for this.

Cheers,

Don Miller
75 Glenbrook
Shenandoah Valley of Virginia

>
>Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:38:11 EST
>From: Gcbr
>Subject: Re: GMC: Add-on 2cents re Inverter
>

>In a message dated 11/18/98 1:03:28 PM Central Standard Time,

>
>> Hate to harp, but be sure you consider target usage and if it involves
>> delicate electronics keep your Inverted 110 output separate from the
rest
>of
>> the coach and DO NOT get an Inverter/Charger combination.
>>

>Heinz

>
>I agree no inverter/charger. My question is why keep it separate from the
>rest of the coach? I am planning on putting circuit 3 into the
configuration
>I sent earlier. I want good power all over the coach. No, I dont use that
much
>but I want the option of using things anywhere. I ask the guy from
StatPower
>the question-----what if I am in a park with low voltage------how do I run
the
>inverter to give me good power? Simple throw the breaker to circuit 3
>It will have no power so inverter will take over for outlets. The hotwater
>heater and ACs will still run on shore power. This sounded like the perfect
>solution. I respect your opinion so please tell me the flaw here.
>
>Take Care
>Arch 76 GB IL
>
 
I would like to know if you gentlemen have wired a Stratpower 1500
inverter with their remote control feature. If so, how did you
hardwire the output side?
Herm
78'Eleganza

>
> Did I make a mistake when I threw my converter in the creek?
>
> First I worry about my wheel bearings, now my inverter / chargers ?
>
> I have used a Trace 1500 watt inverter with multi stage charger to
maintain
> the Prevailer gel cell house batteries on our boat. They were all
installed
> in 1991, heavily used, never touched, and are still kicking, maybe
because
> we try not to deep cycle nor over charge them.
>
> I never suspected, until now, the old Trace inverter-charger might
not be
> taking good care of those batteries and our sensitive electronics.
>
> Couple of years ago we removed a 12kw genset, added a 2500 watt
Statpower
> inverter, for 4000 watts total, heavier 12 volt alternators, so all
120
> volts has been from the inverters or shorepower. We fast idle one
or both
> of the propulsion engines when we need large amounts of 120 volt
power.
>
> Some tradeoffs, but overall, a better and simpler system.
>
> Based upon that experience, I now have a StatPower SineWave Inverter /
> Charger in our GMC. This inverter seems to be well built, and so
far works
> like a charm.
>
> Wiring used here:
>
> 1. Inverter 30 amp switched output feeds one of the two main breakers.
>
> 2. The shorepower wire that formerly fed this main breaker now feeds
a 30
> amp marine breaker.
>
> 3. The marine breaker feeds the inverter input.
>
> 4. The main breaker feeds breakers with Outlets, TV, Refrig,
Microwave, Cook
> Top so all operate from
> either inverter or shorepower.
>
> The panel mount marine breaker mounts with screws, has screw
terminals on
> the back and is mounted in the side of the main breaker box.
>
> 5. The other shorepower leg feeds the other main breaker and is
unchanged.
>
> 6. It in turn feeds breakers which pick up the AC, ceramic heater
outlets
> and water heater.
>
> 7. All neutrals go to the neutral buss and all grounds go to the
ground
> buss.
>
> 8. Statpower says Ground Fault Protection on all RV inverter fed
circuits
> but don't specify if this is their
> requirement or part of a code. We put them in.
>
> If this wiring is similar to what Arch and the StatPower tech are
thinking,
> so far, it is working OK here.
>
> On my coach the refrigerator 120 volt outlet was fed from the water
heater
> switch box mounted beside the breaker box. I wanted that outlet on
the
> inverter so had to do some rewiring. This was clearly shown on my
wiring
> diagram but I scratched my head for awhile as the book was at the
house.
>
> Lessons have been learned. Most important, if I were doing it over,
would
> be switch to 24 or better still, a 48 volt inverter / house system.
This
> would instantly solve the more difficult problems one runs into with
12 volt
> inverters operating at power levels greater than 1000 watts. Of
course it
> would add a few new complications, but excellence is never easy.
>
> BTW, hav'nt checked the internal wiring, but my old converter might
make a
> good bucking transformer to increase low park voltages. I once had a
> surplus 10 volt 30 amp filament transformer I used for this.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Don Miller
> 75 Glenbrook
> Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
>
>
> >
> >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:38:11 EST
> >From: Gcbr
> >Subject: Re: GMC: Add-on 2cents re Inverter
> >
>
>
> >In a message dated 11/18/98 1:03:28 PM Central Standard Time,

> >
> >> Hate to harp, but be sure you consider target usage and if it
involves
> >> delicate electronics keep your Inverted 110 output separate from
the
> rest
> >of
> >> the coach and DO NOT get an Inverter/Charger combination.
> >>
>
>
>
> >Heinz
>
> >
> >I agree no inverter/charger. My question is why keep it separate
from the
> >rest of the coach? I am planning on putting circuit 3 into the
> configuration
> >I sent earlier. I want good power all over the coach. No, I dont
use that
> much
> >but I want the option of using things anywhere. I ask the guy from
> StatPower
> >the question-----what if I am in a park with low voltage------how
do I run
> the
> >inverter to give me good power? Simple throw the breaker to circuit 3
> >It will have no power so inverter will take over for outlets. The
hotwater
> >heater and ACs will still run on shore power. This sounded like the
perfect
> >solution. I respect your opinion so please tell me the flaw here.
> >
> >Take Care
> >Arch 76 GB IL
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
 
Herm,

Not sure which Statpower 1500 you have.

Some models have a built in relay to switch between the inverter output and
the shore power cable.
I describe how I wired this model in my previous post.

If your inverter does not have a changeover relay you will need a way to
manually select either shore power or inverter in a way that is impossible
to select both at the same time.

Boats generally use a selector switch from Germany or an interlocked set of
breakers. I have wired these both ways.

A much less expensive GMC installation was described on this list recently.
This man used two receptacles. Shore power fed one receptacle and the
inverter output fed the other receptacle. He moved a plug which fed some of
his breakers back and forth from one receptacle to the other in order to
select the power source he needed. All components were rated for 30 amps.

Sounded like a neat way to me, but he pointed out it might not meet some of
the codes.

Don

>
>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:00:07 -0800 (PST)
>From: herm beeck
>Subject: Re: GMC: Add-on 2cents re Inverter
>
>I would like to know if you gentlemen have wired a Stratpower 1500
>inverter with their remote control feature. If so, how did you
>hardwire the output side?
>Herm
>78'Eleganza
 
I have installed a whistler 1500 watt, and I don't know if it is the same,
but from the pictures it looks the same. Bought the remote switch at the
Pilot gas stop. Wired up to plug that looks like telephone female plug.
By the way, I installed a solenoid to the inverter so when I park for some
time (like over the wintertime) the inverter has no power.
Regards
Al chernoff

> I would like to know if you gentlemen have wired a Stratpower 1500
> inverter with their remote control feature. If so, how did you
> hardwire the output side?
> Herm
> 78'Eleganza
>

> >
> > Did I make a mistake when I threw my converter in the creek?
> >
> > First I worry about my wheel bearings, now my inverter / chargers ?
> >
> > I have used a Trace 1500 watt inverter with multi stage charger to
> maintain
> > the Prevailer gel cell house batteries on our boat. They were all
> installed
> > in 1991, heavily used, never touched, and are still kicking, maybe
> because
> > we try not to deep cycle nor over charge them.
> >
> > I never suspected, until now, the old Trace inverter-charger might
> not be
> > taking good care of those batteries and our sensitive electronics.
> >
> > Couple of years ago we removed a 12kw genset, added a 2500 watt
> Statpower
> > inverter, for 4000 watts total, heavier 12 volt alternators, so all
> 120
> > volts has been from the inverters or shorepower. We fast idle one
> or both
> > of the propulsion engines when we need large amounts of 120 volt
> power.
> >
> > Some tradeoffs, but overall, a better and simpler system.
> >
> > Based upon that experience, I now have a StatPower SineWave Inverter /
> > Charger in our GMC. This inverter seems to be well built, and so
> far works
> > like a charm.
> >
> > Wiring used here:
> >
> > 1. Inverter 30 amp switched output feeds one of the two main breakers.
> >
> > 2. The shorepower wire that formerly fed this main breaker now feeds
> a 30
> > amp marine breaker.
> >
> > 3. The marine breaker feeds the inverter input.
> >
> > 4. The main breaker feeds breakers with Outlets, TV, Refrig,
> Microwave, Cook
> > Top so all operate from
> > either inverter or shorepower.
> >
> > The panel mount marine breaker mounts with screws, has screw
> terminals on
> > the back and is mounted in the side of the main breaker box.
> >
> > 5. The other shorepower leg feeds the other main breaker and is
> unchanged.
> >
> > 6. It in turn feeds breakers which pick up the AC, ceramic heater
> outlets
> > and water heater.
> >
> > 7. All neutrals go to the neutral buss and all grounds go to the
> ground
> > buss.
> >
> > 8. Statpower says Ground Fault Protection on all RV inverter fed
> circuits
> > but don't specify if this is their
> > requirement or part of a code. We put them in.
> >
> > If this wiring is similar to what Arch and the StatPower tech are
> thinking,
> > so far, it is working OK here.
> >
> > On my coach the refrigerator 120 volt outlet was fed from the water
> heater
> > switch box mounted beside the breaker box. I wanted that outlet on
> the
> > inverter so had to do some rewiring. This was clearly shown on my
> wiring
> > diagram but I scratched my head for awhile as the book was at the
> house.
> >
> > Lessons have been learned. Most important, if I were doing it over,
> would
> > be switch to 24 or better still, a 48 volt inverter / house system.
> This
> > would instantly solve the more difficult problems one runs into with
> 12 volt
> > inverters operating at power levels greater than 1000 watts. Of
> course it
> > would add a few new complications, but excellence is never easy.
> >
> > BTW, hav'nt checked the internal wiring, but my old converter might
> make a
> > good bucking transformer to increase low park voltages. I once had a
> > surplus 10 volt 30 amp filament transformer I used for this.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Don Miller
> > 75 Glenbrook
> > Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:38:11 EST
> > >From: Gcbr
> > >Subject: Re: GMC: Add-on 2cents re Inverter
> > >
> >
> >
> > >In a message dated 11/18/98 1:03:28 PM Central Standard Time,

> > >
> > >> Hate to harp, but be sure you consider target usage and if it
> involves
> > >> delicate electronics keep your Inverted 110 output separate from
> the
> > rest
> > >of
> > >> the coach and DO NOT get an Inverter/Charger combination.
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > >Heinz
> >
> > >
> > >I agree no inverter/charger. My question is why keep it separate
> from the
> > >rest of the coach? I am planning on putting circuit 3 into the
> > configuration
> > >I sent earlier. I want good power all over the coach. No, I dont
> use that
> > much
> > >but I want the option of using things anywhere. I ask the guy from
> > StatPower
> > >the question-----what if I am in a park with low voltage------how
> do I run
> > the
> > >inverter to give me good power? Simple throw the breaker to circuit 3
> > >It will have no power so inverter will take over for outlets. The
> hotwater
> > >heater and ACs will still run on shore power. This sounded like the
> perfect
> > >solution. I respect your opinion so please tell me the flaw here.
> > >
> > >Take Care
> > >Arch 76 GB IL
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
 
I installed a solenoid to the inverter so when I park for some time
(like over the wintertime) the inverter has no power.

AL
Tell me how you connected the solenoid coil side? (to the Ignition key?)
How does the remote function?
I have ordered but not received mine yet.
Herm
'78 Eleganza

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
 
Arch you might try this marine outfit. They have given me excellent prices
and service over the years.

Defender Industries 800 628 8225. Fuses and breakers are on page 343 in
their catalog.

They don't mention a brand for the breakers and I forget. These breakers
are available in various sizes, rated 250 volt AC and 65 volt DC, and red,
white or black colors for easy identification. $10.50 each.

Don't forget the 12 volt fuse available from same source. I used Blue Seas
Systems Fuse Holder Model 5001 ($16.95) and Blue Seas Systems Fuses. They
are available from 100 to 250 amp. ($7.95)

If you need more amps, fuses get more expensive but the Type "T" stuff is
available from this outfit or West.

Should have got my flue shot, here I sit blowing my nose, instead of
working on
the GMC.

Cheers,

Don

>
>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:18:42 EST
>From: Gcbr
>Subject: Re: GMC: Add-on 2cents re Inverter
>



>My question is where did you get the 110 breaker and what brand
>ect is it. I have West Marine catalog but dont know what to order.
>
>Take Care
>Arch 76 GB IL
 
Herm... quite simple. I added a new solenoid to the firewall, next to the
other one that is used to put the boost (rear battery on).. Went to Pep
Boys/Napa and bought some #2 or 1 cable and connected the back battery
cable to the new solenoid. Then I took the other side of the new solenoid
to the inverter. The power for the solenoid comes from the rear battery so
I just ran on of the solenoid connections to the same connector that the
rear battery goes to, and ran a wire to the front console. When I put
ground on that one, the solenoid connects up and the inverter can now get
power. That way, it is not ever on unless I am using it and no drain on
any battery...

Call me or email me if you would like to talk or if I can help. A note,
just buy the biggest battery cable you can as the power of running the
inverter at 1500 watts is abbout 120 amps... lots to run through for some
time. Lastly, I had to add a higher circuit breaker for the rear battery
as it has one that is made to kick off at 50 ro 60 amps... can't remember
right now. So, if you connect yours up and find that the circuit breaker
is kicking off in the rear (by the house battery), you might have to
increase the circuit breaker.
Al Chernoff

> I installed a solenoid to the inverter so when I park for some time
> (like over the wintertime) the inverter has no power.
>
> AL
> Tell me how you connected the solenoid coil side? (to the Ignition key?)
> How does the remote function?
> I have ordered but not received mine yet.
> Herm
> '78 Eleganza
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
 
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